Broad inaccurate brush.
State-run health care
- Thread starter Candlelight
- Start date
- Status
Broad inaccurate brush.
So... the problem is that people don't have access to care and the solution is to remove access for everyone?
Insurance != Access
How much does your car insurance pay you when you need new tires? Need a fill up of gas (oops I forgot, Obama is gonna take care of that one). Oh you mean you can still pay for maintenance even though insurance doesn't pay for it?
So is that.
So... the problem is that people don't have access to care and the solution is to remove access for everyone?
Insurance != Access
How much does your car insurance pay you when you need new tires? Need a fill up of gas (oops I forgot, Obama is gonna take care of that one). Oh you mean you can still pay for maintenance even though insurance doesn't pay for it?
Dear God, what is WRONG with you?
Supreme Admiral
Captain
I'm getting blue cross health insurance next year.
Should I be more worried about this?
Should I be more worried about this?
So... the problem is that people don't have access to care and the solution is to remove access for everyone?
Insurance != Access
How much does your car insurance pay you when you need new tires? Need a fill up of gas (oops I forgot, Obama is gonna take care of that one). Oh you mean you can still pay for maintenance even though insurance doesn't pay for it?
Car insurance (which covers damages after it happens) and health insurance (which covers preventative care BEFORE things are a problem) are completely incomparable, for the reasons I just stated.
If anything, calling it "health insurance" is a misnomer.
I'm the irony, like how wrong he constantly is on this issue, escapes him.
And give them guns. That would solve the problem!
So... the problem is that people don't have access to care and the solution is to remove access for everyone?
Except for, you know, Alexander Hamilton and the rest of the Federalists.
Small government, self-reliance, self-determination? Read Hamilton's argument on the National Bank debate in 1792 (Washington agreed with him, btw), and his and Washington's writings on the Whiskey Rebellion.
Your version of the founding of this country is a fiction, at best. At worst it's the spin of a bankrupt ideology attempting to justify its selfish beliefs through the lens of history.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
So... the problem is that people don't have access to care and the solution is to remove access for everyone?
Insurance != Access
How much does your car insurance pay you when you need new tires? Need a fill up of gas (oops I forgot, Obama is gonna take care of that one). Oh you mean you can still pay for maintenance even though insurance doesn't pay for it?
Guess what? Car insurance is mandatory because owning a car is an option...
You can't have an option on life.
It's not like half of us even choose to be born with a messed up lung or have problems with their hearts.
So why punish something we can't control?
Last edited:
No. If you can afford it, Blue Cross is perfectly fine.
So you're ok with children having sub-standard or no healthcare because their parents don't have that "good job" they're striving for?
Health care is also a hell of a lot more expensive than car maintenance. Plus, if you can't afford repairing your car, you don't have to if you really can't; you can ask others to drive you around, buy a motorcycle, buy a bike, use public transport, walk, whatever. If you can't afford health care you either suffer or die.
I'm sorry, give me another warning if you want, but the idea of removing health insurance altogether is insane. Even sort-of-wealthy people would go bankrupt en masse without insurance. Do you know how much a night in hospital costs, Gertch? Even the most routine surgical procedures can easily cost in the tens of thousands of dollars, let alone if you get a chronic disease or cancer or something.
That's why people pool their risk in health insurance.
I can't believe anyone is seriously arguing for a nightmare like that.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
BTW if you really want to equate car = life...
There are competitors out there that really compete for your business. There isn't in the insurance companies. There is absolutely no over sight within the insurance companies. Price gouging? Monopolies? Insurance companies dodge these bullets because health insurance is a necessity. What are they going to do? Sue an insurance company? Great. You just compounded the cost by adding in a lawsuit and good luck with that because insurance companies can afford the best lawyers.
There are competitors out there that really compete for your business. There isn't in the insurance companies. There is absolutely no over sight within the insurance companies. Price gouging? Monopolies? Insurance companies dodge these bullets because health insurance is a necessity. What are they going to do? Sue an insurance company? Great. You just compounded the cost by adding in a lawsuit and good luck with that because insurance companies can afford the best lawyers.
ThePlumsofWrath
Commander
I'll never 'get' the USA if I live to be 100 - it's a nation of contradictions and for such a large and diverse place, incredibly inward looking.
Health is a human right, no more, no less. The government takes enough off of you one way or the other so surely they are obliged to provide an infrastructure within which you can support and sustain the machine. If you can't work, you can't pay tax. That, ultimately, costs more in the long run and EVERYONE suffers.
I've never read so much crap in all my life that equates health provision to communism. How the f**k did anyone with half a brian cell make such a leap? An utterly cretinous argument.
Does anyone stop to ask themselves what is important in the greater scheme of things? A new F22 fighter or a population that can sustain and support itself regardless of economic divisions for the benefit of all and, ultimately, the greater economic and social good so that 2 F22's can be bought instead of 1?
The United States of America has no excuse NOT to be the most caring, egalitarian and forward thinking nation on earth, take care of the basics and the majority will take care of themselves. The NHS in the UK is NOT the model to use but imagine having the mandate to create something that provides a base level of care that people can opt in and out of according to their circumstances, it would be amazing and change the lives of people beyond all recognition.
It's not rocket science, it simply requires COMPASSION and an understanding of the greater good that could be done.
Health is a human right, no more, no less. The government takes enough off of you one way or the other so surely they are obliged to provide an infrastructure within which you can support and sustain the machine. If you can't work, you can't pay tax. That, ultimately, costs more in the long run and EVERYONE suffers.
I've never read so much crap in all my life that equates health provision to communism. How the f**k did anyone with half a brian cell make such a leap? An utterly cretinous argument.
Does anyone stop to ask themselves what is important in the greater scheme of things? A new F22 fighter or a population that can sustain and support itself regardless of economic divisions for the benefit of all and, ultimately, the greater economic and social good so that 2 F22's can be bought instead of 1?
The United States of America has no excuse NOT to be the most caring, egalitarian and forward thinking nation on earth, take care of the basics and the majority will take care of themselves. The NHS in the UK is NOT the model to use but imagine having the mandate to create something that provides a base level of care that people can opt in and out of according to their circumstances, it would be amazing and change the lives of people beyond all recognition.
It's not rocket science, it simply requires COMPASSION and an understanding of the greater good that could be done.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
BTW what type of communism? I think Mao and Stalin would have disagreed with state ran health care. So much so that they would put a bullet in your head and call that state ran health care.
Pleas bear in mind, Plums, that most Americans do want a public option, and that the number of those in favor rises when the issue is thoroughly explained. Sadly, there is a lot of fear, misinformation, and outright stupidity fighting against the goal of UHC in the states. The minority is scared, angry, and loud -- that's all.
Most of us realize that ultimately, a government option would be good for the market, the consumers, and the nation overall. We understand that Socialized medicine IS better and cheaper as evidenced by the fact that those countries that have socialized medicine pay less and have healthier populations and better individual health care than does the US, by far. We understand that social programs are a vital part of a functioning democracy and in no way diminish the democratic spirit; and by extension, that a public option is not some vague evil to be feared.
We also understand that morality requires of us to do the best we can to help our country and our countrymen, and that people who think that health is not a basic human right, but something to be profited by and denied at whim, are morally bankrupt.
Most Americans want a country where everyone is born with the right to life, not just those who are lucky. I truly believe that we are on the right path, and hopefully we'll have a true, "robust" public health care option that may very well lead to a true single-payer system some time in the not too distant future.
Most of us realize that ultimately, a government option would be good for the market, the consumers, and the nation overall. We understand that Socialized medicine IS better and cheaper as evidenced by the fact that those countries that have socialized medicine pay less and have healthier populations and better individual health care than does the US, by far. We understand that social programs are a vital part of a functioning democracy and in no way diminish the democratic spirit; and by extension, that a public option is not some vague evil to be feared.
We also understand that morality requires of us to do the best we can to help our country and our countrymen, and that people who think that health is not a basic human right, but something to be profited by and denied at whim, are morally bankrupt.
Most Americans want a country where everyone is born with the right to life, not just those who are lucky. I truly believe that we are on the right path, and hopefully we'll have a true, "robust" public health care option that may very well lead to a true single-payer system some time in the not too distant future.
ThePlumsofWrath
Commander
I hope so, the 'minority' do not show the USA in the best light as they are the only ones getting any air time as a rule. They are utterly repugnant, misinformed and, ultimately, selfish individuals with little or no compassion for others it seems to me.
The 'best' argument I've heard against the introduction for such provision was some idiot in the USA who said that the best reason for not adopting state sponsored/underwritten healthcare was 'have you ever seen a British person's teeth?'
FFS. Perhaps the money would be better spent on simply educating people like him?
^Unfortunately, the types fighting this are generally the types who refuse to be educated. That is why no matter how many times the facts are blatantly pointed out and sourced they are either ignored or refuted anyway. But I'm an American all for Universal Health Care and I know there are many more like me!
I see very few on the political right raising legitimate concerns. Most of what I hear is "blah, blah, blah" with their hands covering their ears, "Nah, nah, nah, nah! I don't hear you! I don't hear you! I don't want to believe what you say so it's not true!"
It's often hilarious when you can get beyond how utterly sad it is.
I often hear of the concerns over an increased tax burden. Fair enough. But consider the modest increased taxation to the potential financial ruination and/or worse if someone is unable to access decent care when they're ill through no fault of their own.
Socialized medicine is light years distant from outright communism. It's a sane and compassionate choice. And there are numerous real world examples from other nations to learn from.
It's a no brainer.
- Status
