The ONLY thing I hated about STXI (please explain)

[Disillusioned]

Have you never read real-world accounts of military guys mixing it up with locals in civilian bars, or with military guys from other service branches in civilian bars?

I've heard about it, and it always confuses me why these people ever leave their base if they hate everyone else so much.

The fight in this movie may have been, as you put it, somewhat stereotypical -- romanticized, perhaps, and maybe even a bit of a cliche -- but it wasn't out of place, and I think the scene played pretty well, from start to finish.

Eh, I just saw one big cliche made up of a bunch of smaller ones. There was the group of meatheads who needed to "defend" the poor defenseless woman from the smartass hitting on her, there were all the shots at people from rural areas, including the persistent suggestion that it's unusual for people from rural areas to be smart, the action movie bar fight scene, the physical humor of a woman's breasts getting groped even though the guy supposedly didn't mean to do so... Really just a lot of cliches. And where I come from the police would have been called and the bartender would have pulled the shotgun out from behind the bar and told them to get the hell out of his bar as soon as they got out of hand.

 

[EnsignRicky]

I don't know what all you hicks are complaining about, we city folk have to settle for whatever stray animal that happens by.

And belive me, rabies shots are no picnic.

 

[SheliakBob]

"The ONLY thing there is to hate about Star Trek XI, is Star Trek XI itself!

sorry. couldn't resist.

 

[M'Sharak]

^ And we love you for it, Bob.

Have you never read real-world accounts of military guys mixing it up with locals in civilian bars, or with military guys from other service branches in civilian bars?

I've heard about it, and it always confuses me why these people ever leave their base if they hate everyone else so much.

Perhaps that's because you're presuming that it's motivated by hatred, rather than by institutional rivalry or by plain old "our team (service branch, whatever) is better than anyone else and we're ready to prove it, even if that means kicking all of your asses"-type competitive yahooism. (You'll note that I make no claims about this being the most intelligent approach -- only that I think hatred is not the primary active element.)

The fight in this movie may have been, as you put it, somewhat stereotypical -- romanticized, perhaps, and maybe even a bit of a cliche -- but it wasn't out of place, and I think the scene played pretty well, from start to finish.

Eh, I just saw one big cliche made up of a bunch of smaller ones. There was the group of meatheads who needed to "defend" the poor defenseless woman from the smartass hitting on her, there were all the shots at people from rural areas, including the persistent suggestion that it's unusual for people from rural areas to be smart, the action movie bar fight scene, the physical humor of a woman's breasts getting groped even though the guy supposedly didn't mean to do so... Really just a lot of cliches. And where I come from the police would have been called and the bartender would have pulled the shotgun out from behind the bar and told them to get the hell out of his bar as soon as they got out of hand.

Unless where you come from is sitting just outside the gate of a naval shipyard and departure point for military transports, I'm not sure that's an apt comparison to make. Even in a regular redneck bar (I lived next door to one for ten years or so, and around the corner from two others for same period) stuff will get out of hand, now and then, the police aren't always on the scene in minutes and I'm not sure the "shotgun under the bar" is even strictly legal in many states, these days -- I know I've never seen one employed outside of Western movies.

But whatever -- I won't insist that the scene was highly original (it wasn't) but I do think it was believable enough and that it was well-played. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Chrisisall]

I like a realistic fight in a film. But then again I'm a Fight Club fan.

Errrr, ummm... first rule, dude...

I don't think I've ever seen a realistic fight in a Hollywood film.

"Defiance," 1979, starring Jan-Michael Vincent. Every fight in the film is 100% believable. And it's an okay little movie. I don't believe they had stunt guys for anyone, either.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Have you never read real-world accounts of military guys mixing it up with locals in civilian bars, or with military guys from other service branches in civilian bars?

I've heard about it, and it always confuses me why these people ever leave their base if they hate everyone else so much.

Perhaps that's because you're presuming that it's motivated by hatred, rather than by institutional rivalry or by plain old "our team (service branch, whatever) is better than anyone else and we're ready to prove it, even if that means kicking all of your asses"-type competitive yahooism.

There's also the issue of how the "locals" feel about the cadets when they come to town - often, not so nice. Fights aren't the main or only thing the soldiers are looking for when they get off the base.

One of the things that interested me about the way the scene was played in, fact, was that it seems to me that Kirk wanted to express his distain for Starfleet almost as much - or as much - as he wanted to get laid. There's a moment in the exchange between him and Uhura and "Cupcake" when his focus shifts from her to provoking the big bald cadet. He wants to kick Starfleet ass.

I really liked this scene - it accomplished a lot in the context of a familiar (okay, cliche) set-up.

 

[Disillusioned]

Perhaps that's because you're presuming that it's motivated by hatred, rather than by institutional rivalry or by plain old "our team (service branch, whatever) is better than anyone else and we're ready to prove it, even if that means kicking all of your asses"-type competitive yahooism. (You'll note that I make no claims about this being the most intelligent approach -- only that I think hatred is not the primary active element.)

I guess whenever I've gotten into a fight it tends to be because anger gets the better of me. So it just never makes sense for me to go someplace where something like that might be an issue, e.g. why go to a local bar when you don't seem to like the locals? Know what I mean?

Unless where you come from is sitting just outside the gate of a naval shipyard and departure point for military transports, I'm not sure that's an apt comparison to make.

There is a base, and there tend to be some people from it who wander off of it on occasion. There aren't usually any fights, at least not very often.

Even in a regular redneck bar (I lived next door to one for ten years or so, and around the corner from two others for same period) stuff will get out of hand, now and then, the police aren't always on the scene in minutes and I'm not sure the "shotgun under the bar" is even strictly legal in many states, these days -- I know I've never seen one employed outside of Western movies.

It's legal in my state. I don't know about the bigger towns, but it's pretty common in the smaller ones precisely because the police aren't exactly going to be getting there for a while (the local police are actually the county sheriff's office). I haven't heard of it ever having to be used by anyone locally, but I've heard of it being pulled to stop a fight. After all, barkeeps usually don't like it when their bars are getting torn up by some morons getting into a fight.

But whatever -- I won't insist that the scene was highly original (it wasn't) but I do think it was believable enough and that it was well-played. Your mileage may vary.

Eh, I just saw the cliches. I'm sure some people will be happy that Budweiser survives to the 23rd century, though.

There's also the issue of how the "locals" feel about the cadets when they come to town - often, not so nice. Fights aren't the main or only thing the soldiers are looking for when they get off the base.

It was just the matter of who started the fight and the hostility they displayed toward Kirk when he hadn't even said a word to them yet. It actually made "Cupcake" seem like the drunken redneck. I half expected him to say, "we don't take kindly to your kind around here."

One of the things that interested me about the way the scene was played in, fact, was that it seems to me that Kirk wanted to express his distain for Starfleet almost as much - or as much - as he wanted to get laid. There's a moment in the exchange between him and Uhura and "Cupcake" when his focus shifts from her to provoking the big bald cadet. He wants to kick Starfleet ass.

You notice that all the bad guys in this movie were bald?

I really liked this scene - it accomplished a lot in the context of a familiar (okay, cliche) set-up.

 

[M'Sharak]

Perhaps that's because you're presuming that it's motivated by hatred, rather than by institutional rivalry or by plain old "our team (service branch, whatever) is better than anyone else and we're ready to prove it, even if that means kicking all of your asses"-type competitive yahooism. (You'll note that I make no claims about this being the most intelligent approach -- only that I think hatred is not the primary active element.)

I guess whenever I've gotten into a fight it tends to be because anger gets the better of me. So it just never makes sense for me to go someplace where something like that might be an issue, e.g. why go to a local bar when you don't seem to like the locals? Know what I mean?

Sure I do. I've been quite successful in staying out of fights for a very long time, but I have also known my share of people who will not only not shy away from a fight, they kinda enjoy one. Takes all kinds, I guess.

Unless where you come from is sitting just outside the gate of a naval shipyard and departure point for military transports, I'm not sure that's an apt comparison to make.

There is a base, and there tend to be some people from it who wander off of it on occasion. There aren't usually any fights, at least not very often.

Air Force? They tend to be a little more easygoing, as a group.

It's legal in my state. I don't know about the bigger towns, but it's pretty common in the smaller ones precisely because the police aren't exactly going to be getting there for a while (the local police are actually the county sheriff's office). I haven't heard of it ever having to be used by anyone locally, but I've heard of it being pulled to stop a fight. After all, barkeeps usually don't like it when their bars are getting torn up by some morons getting into a fight.

I quite understand the proprietor's viewpoint. That sort of thing can be a major inconvenience, and expensive as well.

Eh, I just saw the cliches. I'm sure some people will be happy that Budweiser survives to the 23rd century, though.

If not Budweiser, I'm sure there'll be something just like it.

 

[Disillusioned]

Air Force? They tend to be a little more easygoing, as a group.

Yes actually. Pretty much all we get out here in the flatlands, though the Army NG has a place a couple hours away.

If not Budweiser, I'm sure there'll be something just like it.

Well, to be fair most beer tends to taste the same, at least to me anyway.

 

[RAMA]

What bothers me is that some people on this thread seem to think ST movies should be designed to be "safe" for 12 year olds.

One of the things that interested me about the way the scene was played in, fact, was that it seems to me that Kirk wanted to express his distain for Starfleet almost as much - or as much - as he wanted to get laid. There's a moment in the exchange between him and Uhura and "Cupcake" when his focus shifts from her to provoking the big bald cadet. He wants to kick Starfleet ass.

You notice that all the bad guys in this movie were bald?

Yes we are all evil!

RAMA

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Air Force? They tend to be a little more easygoing, as a group.

Yes actually. Pretty much all we get out here in the flatlands, though the Army NG has a place a couple hours away.

If not Budweiser, I'm sure there'll be something just like it.

Well, to be fair most beer tends to taste the same, at least to me anyway.

You mean what the Americans call beer. It's not, btw.

 

[Praxius]

Yeah that was another thing that bugged me.... since when were all the Romulans bald and had facial tattoos?

 

[CommanderRaytas]

They were the only ones left from their perspective. Imagine a ship full of emos and then the rest of the Earth blows up, and they travel over 100 years into the past.

 

[Jeri]

You mean what the Americans call beer. It's not, btw.

It's what Germans who emigrated here and started up the industry called beer. The Anheisers, the Busches, the Schiltzes, the Budweisers, etc.

From wiki:

Until the middle of the 19th century, ales dominated American brewing. This changed when the lager styles, brought by German immigrants, turned out to be more profitable for large-scale manufacturing and shipping. Names such as Miller, Pabst, and Schlitz became known through the breweries they founded or acquired, and many others followed.

Germanics are even responsible for beers in Mexico.

Immigrant people of German background brought another brewing style to Mexico, that made it the perfect combination with the expertise of traditional Mexican brewers. The first lager beer brewery in Mexico was La Pila Seca, founded in 1845 by Swiss immigrant Bernhard Bolgard. This was followed by the opening of the Cervecería Toluca y México, by another Swiss, Agustín Marendaz in 1865, and Cerveceria Cruz Blanca, founded in Mexico City in 1869 by Alsatian immigrant Emil Dercher.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I was just winding you guys up, you know. I'm a wine drinker myself.

 

[Jeri]

We've definitely got the edge in wine; having watched Chris Pine in "Bottle Shock" recently, I'm up on this one.

The Paris Wine Tasting of 1976 or the Judgment of Paris was a wine competition organized in Paris on 24 May 1976 by Steven Spurrier, a British wine merchant, in which French judges did blind tasting of top-quality chardonnay and cabernet sauvignon wines from France and from California. California wines rated best in each category, which caused surprise as France was generally regarded as being the foremost producer of the world's best wines.

 

[shapeshifter]

Star Trek was rated PG-13. That means parents who decide to take children under 13 to see it should expect to give Parental Guidance concerning questionable material or not take them at all.

 

[DonIago]

^Parental Guidance? (scratches head, shrugs, wanders off, takes non-existent kids to see Alien)

 

[CommanderRaytas]

We've definitely got the edge in wine; having watched Chris Pine in "Bottle Shock" recently, I'm up on this one.

The Paris Wine Tasting of 1976 or the Judgment of Paris was a wine competition organized in Paris on 24 May 1976 by Steven Spurrier, a British wine merchant, in which French judges did blind tasting of top-quality chardonnay and cabernet sauvignon wines from France and from California. California wines rated best in each category, which caused surprise as France was generally regarded as being the foremost producer of the world's best wines.

*runs off to pour herself a glass*

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Besides, I don't think kids should be totally shielded from any mention of sex. I learned about human sexuality when I was in grade school.

Something that most North Americans should be learning-it would cut down on teen pregnancy and rampant STD's, and would help teens to have a more secure footing when they say 'Yes' or 'No' to a sexual offer