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A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did Not

Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Franklin said:
TMP does have more emotional gravitas on the whole than ST09 does. And, I'd sit down and watch either movie right now. Some would walk out of the room if the "wrong" one appeared on the screen. I guess it's a matter of taste, really. I suppose there are fans who hate "Tribbles" and "PoA" because they find them farcical and shallow. I think some folks believe ST09 aimed too low. As a big-budget reintroduction of the franchise, they believed Abrams should've pulled out all stops to be Trek at its most thought-provoking. Instead, he went mostly for action-packed. Oh, well. Over $250 million later, who's to say who was correct?

It's not just about depth (or lack thereof). Or craftmanship. Or scale. Or intent.

It's about fidelity to ST and its creed. About the courage to set forth ideas and philosophies. About having things to say and actually saying them.

Some people have taken objection to the new film simply because, in our eyes, it doesn't actually have any real intelligence or conviction, and so has neither the courage nor the capacity to function as a meaningful art or entertainment.

I've given examples before, and I could go on giving examples. To submit just one example (a new observation, as far as I can tell): Previously, under Roddenberry, and then after, Vulcan was depicted as a matriarchal society. Watch "Amok Time" and "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" and "Star Trek III: The Search For Spock" for televisual and cinematic examples. Female characters preside and adjudicate over Spock in each of those stories. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case in STXI . . .

When Spock goes up against the Vulcan Science Academy, he is addressed by a male elder, who is flanked by two other males on either side of him. Out of seven council members, only two are female, and due to the visual arrangement that the scene presents, they seem of lesser importance than the men, given the fact that they are on the periphery of the frame (when all the council members are shown), and because they are positioned at a decline to the male elder and the other Vulcans adjacent to him (the construction that the council members are stood behind slopes down in discrete increments; each increment marking the place, and implying the relative authority of, a given council member).

Now, that is, in my opinion, a very ignorant depiction of Vulcan, and a retrograde stance where attitudes to gender, intelligence and progress are concerned. Roddenberry did something better, and in a more homogenous era, over forty years ago. What excuse do J.J. Abrams, his screenwriters and his production people have? They literally retarded a highly symbolic aspect of ST to a level it has never before existed at. If STXI is just "fun entertainment", then that's as much reason to scrutinize it as any; indeed, it practically mandates that we scrutinize it, and that we hold STXI responsible for the hegemonic imagery and memes it disseminates in a mass market culture.

My personal aesthetic sense also bristles against a couple of other features of the scene (which can be generalized to the film as a whole):

1) The bleached colours. Over the past ten or twelve years, it has become increasingly trendy to light films a certain way, and through gels, filters and film processing to give films a very blue or green and somewhat washed-out look. Like any movement, this style has its merits, but many directors have been running riot with it, whether willfully or because they've been infected by a memetic parasite they're largely unaware of. Rather than truly establishing its own style, STXI has merely genuflected, consciously or unconsciously, toward an existing trend. Should the world of Vulcan, least of all ST, look cold, harsh, bleachy and bleary? I don't think it should.

2) The production design/art direction. There are several points I wish to make here:

a) In this scene -- the seat of the Vulcan Science Academy -- I get the feeling of Vulcan being a relatively low-tech industrial society, not a place where high-minded scientific endeavour and a kind of ritualized mysticism share a strange, beguiling relationship. The manifold beams and girders give the location the look of a warehouse, or some sort of fugly modern art museum. Add in the omnipresent lens flaring visual system that Abrams uses and you get the sense that some annoying factory light keeps upsetting the best efforts of the cameraman, just out of frame. Ironically, Abrams has said he employed lens flares as a conceit to suggest the fantastical nature of the future; in this scene, and others, I assert it has the opposite effect.

b) There is also the choice of triangles and rhombuses in the design of Vulcan's iconography. This seems like a bowdlerization of the more complex and ecclesiastical patterning shown in TMP (rectangles, triangles, hexagons and dodecagons, and their exquisite mathematical interrelationships). Perhaps, in this case, less is more, but that is not always the case, and I personally find the geometric symbols in TMP -- in and of themselves, to say nothing of how they tie into the metaphorical framework of the film -- a lot more satisfying. Then again, perhaps there is nothing even "less" about the patterning in STXI; maybe it's simply different. Certainly, the criss-crossing, intersecting lines make for some striking imagery of their own; I just feel there is something missing.

c) The costumes. Pretty bland, in my opinion. Actually, make that a lot bland. The members of the Vulcan Science Academy might as well be wearing potato sacks. I understand the desire for ascetic clothing, but STXI takes it to an extreme. The Academy members seem to all be wearing exactly the same monotone fabric, seemingly bereft of any arresting shapes, edges or weaves. Later, when the elders are beamed aboard the Enterprise, some variants are seen, but each garment is muted, and again, essentially monotone, and again, essentially bereft of patterns, save for perhaps the yellow-brown garment of the Vulcan female, which appears to have some shapes sown in, but these barely show up even in HD (at least as far as this screencap goes: http://reboot.trekcaps.net/caps/Star_Trek/ariane179254_StarTrek_4588.jpg). The designs are about as non-descript as the designs for the most forgettable aliens in a given episode of TNG, DS9, VGR or ENT.

d) This started with Khan in STII: Like Khan, who mysteriously lost his South-Asian phenotypic pigment between "Space Seed" and STII, Spock seems to have suddenly lost every hint of his yellow-green skin, as well as the light dash of decorative blue paint below his eyebrows. Two major possibilities: J.J. Abrams and his people either didn't care, or they wanted Spock to look as human as possible. In the world of STXI, arched eyebrows, a bowl haircut and pointy ears are enough; apparently, subtler details, once every bit as important for stressing Spock's Vulcan heritage, are no longer important, or desirable. If this doesn't symbolize the way colour and beauty have been bled out of Star Trek, I'm not sure anything does.

* * *

To my mind, those details are not insignificant. In fact, I think they accrete to a degree of high significance. Either STXI is a faithful representation of ST and a good film or it isn't. I hope it's clear where I stand -- and why.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Spock seems to have suddenly lost every hint of his yellow-green skin, as well as the light dash of decorative blue paint below his eyebrows.

I can't speak to the yellow-green skin (and I certainly don't want to get sucked into a discussion about the rest of the post), but if you're talking about the way he looked on TOS, I'm pretty sure that "light dash of decorative blue paint under his eyebrows" was just eyeshadow for the television camera. William Shatner and DeForest Kelley wore it too. We couldn't tell they had it on when we watched it on our dinky little TV screens in the 60s, but if you look at any 1960s television show with our 2009 sharp and clear LCD TVs, you'll see almost every actor then wore some sort of eye makeup, whether he was on Star Trek, Bonanza, Dark Shadows, or That Girl.

Watching Bonanza reruns today can be a very surreal experience when you realize manly Pa Cartwright and Adam, Hoss, and Little Joe are all tarted up with smoky grey eye shadow. :)
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Spock seems to have suddenly lost every hint of his yellow-green skin, as well as the light dash of decorative blue paint below his eyebrows.

I can't speak to the yellow-green skin (and I certainly don't want to get sucked into a discussion about the rest of the post), but if you're talking about the way he looked on TOS, I'm pretty sure that "light dash of decorative blue paint under his eyebrows" was just eyeshadow for the television camera. William Shatner and DeForest Kelley wore it too.

Male actors frequently wore heavy eye makeup in films and television shows of yore. That is beyond question. But the blue shade I'm talking about was unique to Spock, or at least was sported by him more often than any other individual. He can still be seen with it in the feature films. Consider this shot from STV: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/tffhd0184.jpg
 
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Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

I have to agree with the you tube guy's analysis of the movie is spot on. I said this from the beggining, the movie was good I liked it, but it's not a good Star Trek movie. I do intend on getting the DVD and I look foward to the sequel, I just we get more substance in it.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

I said this from the beggining, the movie was good I liked it, but it's not a good Star Trek movie.
That's nearly exactly what my wife said about it. She was a bit more kind than I was. :)
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

but it's not a good Star Trek movie.

Right. Obviously because the film does rise above even that so I can understand.

that the new movie had even less depth than TOS has had in the past.

And T.O.S. even managed to have even less "depth" than the new film several times as well.
 
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Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

why call it a bad Star Trek movie did it not meet up to your standards.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Then you should watch TMP back to back with Star Trek '09. No matter which movie you find cinematically superior you'll certainly find a difference in the depth of story and characters. I'm not saying that TMP is a particularly deep movie. I'm pointing out what the youtube guy was saying. "It's all relative."

ST:TMP and JJ's ST are my two favourite films of all time. I still like TMP best, because it was the film that drew me into the whole ST phenomenon and fills me with nostalgia when I watch it today, but for many months in 1980, I was the only ST fan I knew who actually loved that movie. (My new fannish friends merely tolerated it, and complaints about lack of depth in the characters was a main objection.)

But still, TMP managed to attract a lot of non fans into cinemas, plus it had the support of diehard TOS fans, who went back many, many times.

JJ replicated that success - in so many ways!
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

If more folks would just say, "It was a Star Trek movie that didn't suit my taste in Star Trek," I think there'd be fewer arguments. There is no standard Star Trek orthodoxy that sets the rules for all Trek. There isn't. Arguing as if there is is arguing with the wind.
TMP didn't feel like Trek for some. TWOK didn't feel like Trek for some. ST09 was not a Star Trek movie for some. Sobeit. That doesn't change one fact: it was ALL Star Trek.
For crying out loud folks, if a series can produce both "Balance of Terror" and "Spock's Brain", what doesn't fall somewhere in between those two as Trek?
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Hi, Dan Davison here. Yes, I am the same Corallis who made the video that inspired this thread. I only discovered this site today by chance because I used the 'Statistics and Data' feature on the video for the first time and found the referrals from this thread.

I must start by giving a warm thank you to the OP, not only for his appreciation of my efforts, but for showing a dignified and civil attitude in spite of being on the opposite side of the debate to me. It is pleasing to know that intelligent discussion is not lost in spite of the inane rantings one becomes accustomed to seeing on the Web. It's also pleasing to see at least some of you are in agreement with me and most of those opposed show a decent level of respect and understanding towards my points.

Addressing a couple of the points I've seen on this thread, some of you seem critical (albeit not terribly so) of my stance on disliking Star Trek XI for being an 'action flick' and suggest I am expecting too much in the intellectual department from the franchise. I actually made this very point in the video itself, bringing up established science fiction writers that I read the works of and explicitally stating that Trek has never reached their pure sci-fi levels, but 'was not exactly shallow either'. It would be easy to claim that I was searching for an ambitious, deep, 'Solaris'-style sci-fi, but all I wished to express was that I was hoping for the installment to give me a little more food for thought. Not mountains of themes that can be analysed to death in essays and what have you, but just some small, yet substantial, undercurrent of philosophy or ethics, akin to Balance of Terror or Wrath of Khan, as it was this form of storytelling that made me fall in love with Trek to begin with. I've seen plenty of straightforward action flicks in my time and I only wanted to be served with something truly exceptional for the relaunch of a franchise as iconic and enormous as Star Trek. Several months after having given the film it's fair chance, I honestly have no strong residual feelings about it because of the very shallowness that I perceived while watching it, whereas the most well-received of Trek episodes remain engrained in my memory even in cases when it has been years since I last saw them.

Anyway, there's little else I really need to say. While I'm here, I think I should also note that while certainly not complimentary of me, I found the suggestions that I am 'overcompensating' for something and that my critique only appears deep because of my upper-middle-class, South East English accent to be rather amusing to read. :lol:

EDIT: Oh, and to the OP for describing me as 'normal'...best you get to know me first. I can promise you that I cannot by any measurable sense represent a 'normal' or 'mainstream' person whatsoever. =P
 
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Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Hi, Dan Davison here. Yes, I am the same Corallis who made the video that inspired this thread. I only discovered this site today by chance because I used the 'Statistics and Data' feature on the video for the first time and found the referrals from this thread.

I must start by giving warm thank you to the OP, not only for his appreciation of my efforts, but for showing a dignified and civil attitude in spite of being on the opposite side of the debate to me. It is pleasing to know that intelligent discussion is not lost in spite of the inane rantings one becomes accustomed to seeing on the Web. It's also pleasing to see at least some of you are in agreement with me and most of those opposed show a decent level of respect and understanding towards my points.

Addressing a couple of the points I've seen on this thread, some of you seem critical (albeit not terribly so) of my stance on disliking Trek for being an 'action flick' and suggest I am expecting too much in the intellectual department from the franchise. I actually made this very point in the video itself, bringing up established science fiction writers that I read the works of and explicitally stating that Trek has never reached their pure sci-fi levels, but 'was not exactly shallow either'. It would be easy to claim that I was searching for an ambitious, deep, 'Solaris'-style sci-fi, but all I wished to express was that I was hoping for the installment to give me a little more food for thought. Not mountains of themes that can be analysed to death in essays and what have you, but just some small, yet substantial, undercurrent of philosophy or ethics, akin to Balance of Terror or Wrath of Khan, as it was this form of storytelling that made me fall in love with Trek to begin with. I've seen plenty of straightforward action flicks in my time and I only wanted to be served with something truly exceptional for the relaunch of a franchise as iconic and enormous as Star Trek. Several months after having given the film it's fair chance, I honestly have no strong residual feelings about it because of the very shallowness that I perceived while watching it, whereas the most well-received of Trek episodes remain engrained in my memory even in cases when it has been years since I last saw them.

Anyway, there's little else I really need to say. While I'm here, I think I should also note that while certainly not complimentary of me, I found the suggestions that I am 'overcompensating' for something and that my critique only appears deep because of my upper-middle-class, South East English accent to be rather amusing to read. :lol:

OP here, its great to have you here!
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Hi, Dan Davison here. Yes, I am the same Corallis who made the video that inspired this thread. I only discovered this site today by chance because I used the 'Statistics and Data' feature on the video for the first time and found the referrals from this thread.

I must start by giving warm thank you to the OP, not only for his appreciation of my efforts, but for showing a dignified and civil attitude in spite of being on the opposite side of the debate to me. It is pleasing to know that intelligent discussion is not lost in spite of the inane rantings one becomes accustomed to seeing on the Web. It's also pleasing to see at least some of you are in agreement with me and most of those opposed show a decent level of respect and understanding towards my points.

Addressing a couple of the points I've seen on this thread, some of you seem critical (albeit not terribly so) of my stance on disliking Trek for being an 'action flick' and suggest I am expecting too much in the intellectual department from the franchise. I actually made this very point in the video itself, bringing up established science fiction writers that I read the works of and explicitally stating that Trek has never reached their pure sci-fi levels, but 'was not exactly shallow either'. It would be easy to claim that I was searching for an ambitious, deep, 'Solaris'-style sci-fi, but all I wished to express was that I was hoping for the installment to give me a little more food for thought. Not mountains of themes that can be analysed to death in essays and what have you, but just some small, yet substantial, undercurrent of philosophy or ethics, akin to Balance of Terror or Wrath of Khan, as it was this form of storytelling that made me fall in love with Trek to begin with. I've seen plenty of straightforward action flicks in my time and I only wanted to be served with something truly exceptional for the relaunch of a franchise as iconic and enormous as Star Trek. Several months after having given the film it's fair chance, I honestly have no strong residual feelings about it because of the very shallowness that I perceived while watching it, whereas the most well-received of Trek episodes remain engrained in my memory even in cases when it has been years since I last saw them.

Anyway, there's little else I really need to say. While I'm here, I think I should also note that while certainly not complimentary of me, I found the suggestions that I am 'overcompensating' for something and that my critique only appears deep because of my upper-middle-class, South East English accent to be rather amusing to read. :lol:

OP here, its great to have you here!
Thanks. Out of curiosity, how did you come across my video to begin with? I don't recall doing anything particularly exceptional in the way of advertising it.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

I was look at silly classic Trek commercials and saw a response to your video which linked to yours which I watched and since I thought it was one of the more intelligent and had no flaming in it, so I thought I would prove a point about the dignity of Trekkies and how we shouldn't be guilty of any flaming at all created this thread.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Ah, I understand your point. On a related note, it's also easy to make a bigger deal out of the conflict of opinion/interests between pro and anti-XI fans than there is. Of course I would 'rather' have people agree with me because I am a human being and naturally would prefer to come to mutual terms with other people than clash with them, but all that giving XI a shot and making my conclusion does in terms of impact on my life is mean that I'll likely avoid seeing installments in the alternate timeline. I still have my TOS box sets, I can always purchase the DVDs for the other shows. I have in effect 'lost' nothing of substance from the reboot. I'll be happy to debate for the sake of sharing my thoughts with others, but there's no need for us to come into direct conflict with anyone over what aspect of the franchise my personal 'loyalties' lie in. I also believe that Trekkies in general are fairly intelligent people and can see the futility and indiginity of flaming.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Maybe it's my girlish brain but I didn't experience STXI as an action movie. To me the dominant themes were:

1. ""You will forever be a child of two worlds. Capable of choosing your own destiny. The only question you face is, which path will you choose?""

Both Kirk and Spock were the children of two worlds.. Kirk's was the world of his dead father and all his inner potential versus the world of self-indulgent rebellion. So it's a movie about two people coming of age.

We also see Spock Prime at the end of his life, so much wiser and mellower.. and it's interesting to see where making the right choices can take you.

2. "I could not deprive you of the revelation of all that you could accomplish together, of a friendship that will define you both in ways you cannot yet realize."

Friendship, one that almost doesn't get off the ground because both people are too mired in their own coming-of-age immaturity. By the end of the film Kirk and Spock are completely in sync with each other, the dialog bounces back and forth the way it does when two people really jell. We see the journey towards that friendship in STXI.

3. "It was an attempt to... avoid the appearance of favoritism."

Secret Romance!! There is a whole story there that has yet to be told. We are teased about this until 3/4 of the way through the film. Rewatch it after the revealing of this relationship and you see Spock with new eyes. Oh this adds plenty of angst and interest to the character of Spock.

I consider the action the necessary bits to carry the events of that particular time frame and ship forward. The events are the necessary bits to show the story of the characters. To me an action movie has little to do with character development and the action is the main story being told. This just isn't the case here.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Maybe it's my girlish brain but I didn't experience STXI as an action movie. To me the dominant themes were:



1. ""You will forever be a child of two worlds. Capable of choosing your own destiny. The only question you face is, which path will you choose?""



Both Kirk and Spock were the children of two worlds.. Kirk's was the world of his dead father and all his inner potential versus the world of self-indulgent rebellion. So it's a movie about two people coming of age.



We also see Spock Prime at the end of his life, so much wiser and mellower.. and it's interesting to see where making the right choices can take you.



2. "I could not deprive you of the revelation of all that you could accomplish together, of a friendship that will define you both in ways you cannot yet realize."



Friendship, one that almost doesn't get off the ground because both people are too mired in their own coming-of-age immaturity. By the end of the film Kirk and Spock are completely in sync with each other, the dialog bounces back and forth the way it does when two people really jell. We see the journey towards that friendship in STXI.



3. "It was an attempt to... avoid the appearance of favoritism."



Secret Romance!! There is a whole story there that has yet to be told. We are teased about this until 3/4 of the way through the film. Rewatch it after the revealing of this relationship and you see Spock with new eyes. Oh this adds plenty of angst and interest to the character of Spock.



I consider the action the necessary bits to carry the events of that particular time frame and ship forward. The events are the necessary bits to show the story of the characters. To me an action movie has little to do with character development and the action is the main story being told. This just isn't the case here.

I was perfectly aware of all those themes, yet if anything I found them to enforce my evaluation of the film as an action flick because they are such clichéd hallmarks of the genre (coming of age, finding one's 'destiny', secret romance and associated angst). Going off the top of my head, here are a few examples from the series and previous films that I believe conveyed these two aspects explored in the reboot far more maturely.


1. Characterisation of Kirk

Fan reaction to Kirk's character over the years has had its ups and downs. While it is almost unfair to compare Kirk Prime with Alternate Kirk because the former had his back-story touched upon several times during the course of TOS and its films while the latter has only had one release to do so (albeit in more detail), I must give my reason as to why I could not bring myself to admire XI's Kirk. People have often subjected Shatner's Kirk to parody as a brash, womanising and shallow character, especially when compared with other Trek Captains such as Picard. However, when watching XI, I could not help but be amused by these character elements I noticed:

- He's an orphan.

- He's a rebel.

- He meets a senior figure who knew his father, eventually accepting his offer to follow in his father's footsteps.

- He has a 'greater destiny' to achieve.

- He takes a dislike to another main character, with whom he has reconciled by the end of the film.

- He learns the importance of duty, causing a shift in character.

- His antagonist is the figure who killed his father.

- He near-miraculously is able to take command of a critical situation and rectify it in spite of his near-absolute lack of experience or authority.

All in all, my reaction to this portrayal of Kirk was certainly not 'What a fresh take on an iconic character!'. Rather, it was 'Dear God, how many tropes and clichés can you cram into one protagonist?' I'm sorry, but for a film claimed to be an injection of life into a stale franchise, they seemed determined to make sure Kirk was no more than a stock character.

While it is difficult to compare a character established through a three-season TV series to one established in a single feature film, I must say that I found Kirk Prime's moments of exposition to make him a far more appealing character. He was smart, decisive, courageous and self-assertive, yet had very human weaknesses that he endeavoured not to show to his crew out of his sense of responsibility as an officer. He had many little glimpses into his past life and deeper personality, such as his revelations of hidden sentiments in The Naked Time, his confessions that his loyalty to his ship and rank superceded human attachment and prevented him from settling down romantically, his expression of having wished to see the wonders of unknown universe while gazing at the stars as a child, the professional risk he takes to save Spock in Amok Time that foreshadow his actions in the Genesis Trilogy and his bitter realisation of having avoided facing death in the face until the sacrifice of his greatest friend and colleague. People may ridicule Kirk Prime for his surface persona and some may argue that a figure such as him does not fit in with modern expectations of a protagonist, but I for one grew to admire him far more greatly than the colour-by-numbers 'maverick who discovers responsibility and reforms' I was treated to on the cinema screen earlier this year.

2. Characterisation of Spock and his portrayed romance

My father once said that if he were to meet a leading professor of physics at a top university, he would expect somebody like Nimoy's Spock. I can see very clearly why he would be inclined to think this way. With his commanding presence, baritone voice, fit physical frame and attitude that speaks volumes of intellect, Spock had become my TV idol by the time I was in my teens. The sheer respect that his personality demanded, his witty sense of humour, his image of calmness and discipline, the way he proved his intelligence again and again - Spock embodied the sort of person I wanted to be when I grew up. Even as he lay dying in his final (pre-resurrection) exchange with his best friend and long-term superior officer, he remained dignified, rational and understanding.

As you can imagine, this attachment to Spock's character marks the most subjective area of my critique of the reboot. To see this figure who I had admired and longed to become gratuitously kissing a woman for several second on screen and nearly delivering the clichéd war film line of 'Tell Lt. Uhura that I love her' before attempting a heroic sacrifice actually managed to horrify me. Before that point, I was not developing any substantial fondness in the film, but I could sit back and take it all in calmly. That moment made me feel as though my childhood had been punched right in the face. I understood where they would have gained this idea from, as there are at least two points in the series when Uhura acts in flirtatious manner towards Spock, but on neither occasion does Spock show any real mutual interest, making this action practically unprecedented. I also cannot imagine Spock showing such favouritism towards any student of his out of personal bias. As I said in my video, this subplot did not make me see an intriguing new aspect to Spock's character. Rather, I saw detraction from an essential component of the character that made him different and interesting to begin with. If I wanted to see personal explorations of Spock, I would put on Amok Time, Wrath of Khan, This Side of Paradise, Journey to Babel, Unification and several other episodes or films before I would even consider this bolted-on romance clearly added to cater towards teenage girls (no personal offence intended to any teenage girls who may be reading this, but I think you can understand my intended sentiment regardless). You ask me, Spock had plenty of intrigue without giving him a girlfriend and playing up the 'angst', marking another cliché I noted while watching the film. More importantly, they were intriguing discoveries about Spock's persona that never broke with his established personality.
 
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Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Why did you not like the new crew I loved the way the actors give homages to what the original actors did in TOS.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Why did you not like the new crew I loved the way the actors give homages to what the original actors did in TOS.
Actually, if you can recall both the video that sparked this thread and my text responses here since, I have said next to nothing about the cast. I have no particularly strong feelings about them either way and my major criticisms of the film are almsot enitrely rooted in the writing (plot, characterisation, thematics etc.). The only comment I've made in this regard is that the guy who played McCoy (sorry, the name escapes me at present) was eerily like DeForrest Kelly and fit the part well. In terms of doing what they were told to do by the script and director, the actors did a perfectly acceptable job. They are ultimately not my source of grief concerning the film, it's the creative crew.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

You can also count me as a fan who doesn't have a bad thing to say about the actors involved. If this had been a story with a traditional prequel flavour, mapping how each of them arrived onboard the Enterprise several years before The Original Series... I'd have been happy enough with attention paid to casting.

Bruce Greenwood in particular deserves a massive amount of praise.

Chris Pine works well with the alternative history version of Kirk given to him, but I wish he'd shown more of the respectable officer I equate to Shatner's portrayal. He's managed to be both fun loving, ultra serious about being in command and not having the crew lose confidence in him.

Zachary Quinto is on the money with Spock, his look and mannerisms but obviously now has to diverge down a different path than Nimoy, again because of Nero. Geese, I hate that character and he's been given importance in this than he's worth frankly.

Simon Pegg was my least favourite performance, but I give leeway there because Scotty often became the comic relief in later films and sadly, that's the portrayal which made it into pop culture. There's a case for saying that the way memory cheats, has resulted in them distorting Kirk's character too.
 
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