Janeway, Did she just need some Romance?

[Mansa40]

As a Captain and a Leader I dont like Janeway. I didnt like many of her decisions; like allying with the Borg, reprimanding Kim, violating the territory of the Swarm, etc. However, as a character she was very interesting.

Honestly though I felt while watching her that her bad leadership decisions came out of sexual frustration and a lack of being able to socialize with the crew.

So do you think if Mark had made it on board she would have made better leadership decisions as she could have taken out her crazyness on him?

 

[Guy Gardener]

If she had Mark and her dogs, why would she go home?

Odysseus was just trying to get back to his Penelope.

Without a tangible goal to strive towards, that lady would have set up a colony at the first safe port and have oldpeoplesex till it was a surety that they'd be Janeway's in charge of the colony for the net couple generations.

For the first 4 seasons she wanted to get home and kiss Mark, for the last 3 she wanted to get home and kick his ass, and then delete his wife and THEN Kiss Mark.

 

[chakotay_lover]

The decisions she made were directed by the prime directive, how could you think she was a bad leader, up until the end when she voilated the prime directive and went back into time. Janeway was not the greatest captain but sure as hell better captain than cisco and maybe her love life had something to do with it but not so much the leader part but how she treated the crew ill have to admit she was a bitc*. If she had gotten laid at all viewers would have thought she was a hoe, so she didnt get any that i remember. it was to preserve her image as a strong woman.

 

[Brit]

Kathryn Janeway was a very good leader and a strong Captain and well thought of by her crew. She didn't need romance any more than Sisko, or Picard or even Kirk. What the series needed to show was all of these Captains in committed relationships. That's what usually happens to people.

Brit

 

[AuntKate]

Am I the only one who finds this topic a bit sexist and more than a bit sophomoric? I can remember the guys in high school suggesting that girls they didn't like would be more likable if they had a roll in the hay. I was hoping that in this day and age, this sort of allegation was far, far in the past. Maybe I was wrong.

As for Janeway's decisions, I think most of them are within the approval range of a captain who is on her own and far from Federation support. I can see James Kirk making most of these decisions, for example, when he was on his five-year deep-space mission. And I can't see her failing to reprimand Kim for violating her orders when she did worse to Paris for a similar infraction. Kim's behavior very nearly ruined their interaction with the Varro, remember.

As for her isolation, she isn't that isolated. She was often involved in social activities with the crew. She goes to parties on the holodeck (the luau in "Alter Ego"), participates in a talent show ("Coda"), plays pool with the crew ("The Cloud"), attends concerts ("Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy" and "Virtuoso"), joins in on pubic holodeck programs ("Bride of Chaotica!"; "Fair Haven"; "Spirit Folk"), attends movies ("Repression"), and so on. And this is only what we see on the screen. Who knows how much more she does?

I think it odd that Janeway is so misunderstood by many people. It makes me wonder if they have really watched the program with an open mind. It's easy to pick on one or two of her more controversial decisions and decide that she is out of whack. When you pay attention to the entire series, she is actually a pretty decent captain--if something of a maverick.

At least, she seems that way to me.

 

[SiorX]

Honestly though I felt while watching her that her bad leadership decisions came out of sexual frustration and a lack of being able to socialize with the crew.

In all fairness, the entire crew of the D (barring Riker) were lucky if they scored a ride once a year. They could be the poster children for sexual frustration, and yet nobody reckons they'd have been better at their jobs if they'd gotten more.

What Janeway needed was the tender and passionate attention of a group of consistent writers with the stamina to keep going for a whole season at a time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The decisions she made were directed by the prime directive, how could you think she was a bad leader, up until the end when she voilated the prime directive and went back into time. Janeway was not the greatest captain but sure as hell better captain than cisco and maybe her love life had something to do with it but not so much the leader part but how she treated the crew ill have to admit she was a bitc*. If she had gotten laid at all viewers would have thought she was a hoe, so she didnt get any that i remember. it was to preserve her image as a strong woman.

She broke the prime directive by accident in the first episode and decided that since it was already broken by that point, that it would be pretty gutless to think they should stop shattering the Prime Directive into smaller slithers of unconscionablity when it was so far gone that no one would notice if they broken it just a scoodge more, similar to really not giving a tug about getting a small white wine stain on top of a large red wine stain.

Day one told us what sort of Starfleet officer she was.

Kathryn Janeway was a very good leader and a strong Captain and well thought of by her crew. She didn't need romance any more than Sisko, or Picard or even Kirk. What the series needed to show was all of these Captains in committed relationships. That's what usually happens to people.

Brit

Kirk NEEDED a woman in his life. And I do mean a woman, not girl or a fling. He was a child who needed some dramatic tempering with real emotion and someone worth living for, so that he wouldn't be so bloody callous when he met God and gods that he thought he could right do nine impossible things before breakfast without breaking a sweat. I did't like it that they cut his girlfriend Antonia(?) from generations as he looked back when leaving the nexus even if it was totally Orpheus.

Sisko needed a woman in his life to fill up the cist the passin of his wife left in him. Maybe it's callous, but taking a look at the later years, that guy was just built to be matrried and be a family man. it's how he was raised,.

Picard did not need a woman or sex. It was entertaining when he flirted with attachment, and the nonrelationship with Bev was quaint, but that man is an isolitary figure in every regard.

Am I the only one who finds this topic a bit sexist and more than a bit sophomoric? I can remember the guys in high school suggesting that girls they didn't like would be more likable if they had a roll in the hay. I was hoping that in this day and age, this sort of allegation was far, far in the past. Maybe I was wrong.
.

I agree, it's downright abusive to insist that meaningless sex will alter someone meaningfully.

 

[kes7]

Seriously. Picard was a complete ass half the time and made some ridiculous decisions, but no one ever suggests he just needed a good screwing. I'm usually the last person to cry sexism, but this topic did the trick. It's sexist and offensive.

 

[Michael]

Honestly though I felt while watching her that her bad leadership decisions came out of sexual frustration and a lack of being able to socialize with the crew.

So do you think if Mark had made it on board she would have made better leadership decisions as she could have taken out her crazyness on him?

Oh please, you can't be serious. I don't know you, but this nonsense comes off rather troll-ish to me.

 

[Praetor]

Honestly though I felt while watching her that her bad leadership decisions came out of sexual frustration and a lack of being able to socialize with the crew.

So do you think if Mark had made it on board she would have made better leadership decisions as she could have taken out her crazyness on him?

Oh please, you can't be serious. I don't know you, but this nonsense comes off rather troll-ish to me.

I'm forced to agree. I bet she'd have been a lot happier if she'd stayed in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant too, right?

 

[StarryEyed]

Blatantly sexist thread. Nothing worth seeing here at all.

 

[Thestral]

Kathryn Janeway was a very good leader and a strong Captain and well thought of by her crew. She didn't need romance any more than Sisko, or Picard or even Kirk. What the series needed to show was all of these Captains in committed relationships. That's what usually happens to people.

Brit

Kirk NEEDED a woman in his life. And I do mean a woman, not girl or a fling. He was a child who needed some dramatic tempering with real emotion and someone worth living for, so that he wouldn't be so bloody callous when he met God and gods that he thought he could right do nine impossible things before breakfast without breaking a sweat. I did't like it that they cut his girlfriend Antonia(?) from generations as he looked back when leaving the nexus even if it was totally Orpheus.

Sisko needed a woman in his life to fill up the cist the passin of his wife left in him. Maybe it's callous, but taking a look at the later years, that guy was just built to be matrried and be a family man. it's how he was raised,.

Picard did not need a woman or sex. It was entertaining when he flirted with attachment, and the nonrelationship with Bev was quaint, but that man is an isolitary figure in every regard.

QFT. Some of Kirk's most dramatic moments ("City on the Edge...", "Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock") have been connected to his romantic relationships (not flings, relationships) with women and the results thereof.

One of Sisko's defining character moments was his healing from the loss of Jennifer, and his romance with Kasidy Yates was a long-burning subplot for several years on the show - even extending into the real world when Avery Brooks insisted that Sisko not be killed off, thus leaving behind his wife and unborn child.

 

[kimc]

Am I the only one who finds this topic a bit sexist and more than a bit sophomoric? I can remember the guys in high school suggesting that girls they didn't like would be more likable if they had a roll in the hay. I was hoping that in this day and age, this sort of allegation was far, far in the past. Maybe I was wrong.

No, you're not the only one. Unfortunately there are those who judge Janeway through a sexist lense just as there are those who would judge Sisko through a racist lense. As much as we would like to think that in this day and age we've moved beyond that kind of thinking in truth we're deluding outselves.

This thread is proof that this kind of thinking exists. I would like to see it turn into a good discussion on the whys and wherefores of this kind of thinking rather than chug along on a one-way track to Creepyville.

It's all up to you guys.

 

[JustKate]

Oh, dear Lord, how I hate the "If the woman acts in a way that I don't like, it must be because she needs sex" thing. I hate it almost as much as I hate the "If the woman acts in a way that I don't like, she must have PMS" thing.

Janeway acts that way because she is Janeway and that's the kind of person she is. Like her or loathe her, that's the way she is. If you like her - and I do - that's fine, and if you don't - and I realize there are people who don't - that's fine, too. But jeez, disciplined dedicated officers don't consistently make mistake after mistake after mistake just because they need sex. No mentally healthy person does, if you ask me.

And I agree with Aunt Kate that she wasn't the least bit isolated. She socialized plenty, so long as your definition of "socialize" includes "stuff that doesn't necessarily include sex." I mean, sheesh, I socialize with lots of people. I don't have sex with most of them, though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ah, first impressions.

Kate's new character on Mercy certainly has no stick up her bum what so ever.

Funny as hell as a drunk this one is.

Maybe if Janeway needed a stiff anything, it was a drink.

I don't recall Sisko drinking, and there's only anecdotal evidence of Archer drinking to excess after Caroline dumped him, and Picard off his nut in TNG Family was magnificent. Drunk mudwrestling at that.

Though I would never suggest that Kathryn Janeway should mudwrestle to entertain her fanbase unless such an act was germane to the story.

 

[Jeri]

Oh, no; another one of those germane mudwrestling plots. Well, you know what they say; there are only 14 basic plots, and guys will always want mudwrestling in all 14.

 

[Mansa40]

Lol sexist? How absurd. It the show itself all of these topics are covered at length. In several episodes The Doctor broaches the subject. Janeway herself notes in several episodes that she is having difficulty walking the line of how and where the Captain associates with her crew.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The show exploring any characters sexuality is fine.

Saying "Kathy wouldn't have been such a bitch if she got a stiff cock up her what not now and then" is ridiculous and insulting.

 

[AuntKate]

Lol sexist? How absurd. It the show itself all of these topics are covered at length. In several episodes The Doctor broaches the subject. Janeway herself notes in several episodes that she is having difficulty walking the line of how and where the Captain associates with her crew.

She did?

 

[Guy Gardener]

JANEWAY: Let me guess. that someone is me.
EMH: I don't mean to pry, Captain, but we've got a broken-hearted hologram who believed that the two of you were in love.
JANEWAY: Oh, I was sure he'd be on to the next lass by now. I hope he's all right.
EMH: Far from it. The fight spilled out onto the street. Before long, he'd climbed up a tree and began shouting your name. Mister Neelix managed to talk him down.
JANEWAY: It could be a malfunction in his behavioural subroutines.
EMH: I've already checked that. His subroutines are fine, but I did notice you'd made quite a number of alterations to his programme.
JANEWAY: Minor improvements.
EMH: To make him more appealing?
JANEWAY: You're starting to pry, Doctor.
EMH: I apologise for overstepping my bounds but I'm worried about you. Michael Sullivan is a hologram. His broken heart can be mended with the flick of a switch. Your feelings however, are a little more complicated.
JANEWAY: I'm not going to be climbing any trees, if that's what you're worried about.
EMH: If you decide you want to talk, I've been hearing a lot of confessions lately. Let me know.
JANEWAY: You want a confession, Doctor? All right. I've become romantically involved with a hologram. If that's possible.
EMH: Tell me what happened.
JANEWAY: Well, you know the story girl meets boy, girl modifies boy's subroutines
EMH: Did you have intimate relations?
JANEWAY: That's none of your business. Let's just say it was a memorable three days.
EMH: I don't see the problem.
JANEWAY: Don't you? Michael Sullivan is exactly my type. Attractive, intelligent. We share the same interests and if there's something I don't like, I can simply change it.
EMH: I've noticed that humans usually try to change the people they fall in love with. What's the difference?
JANEWAY: In this case, it works. We had a picnic by the lake yesterday afternoon. Michael drifted off to sleep. His head was lying on my shoulder and I remember thinking, this is close to perfect. Then he began to snore. Did I nudge him with my elbow hoping he'd roll over and stop? Did I whisper in his ear to wake him? No. Why bother? When I could simply access the computer and alter his vocal algorithms? And that's exactly what I was about to do when I realised that everything around me was an illusion, including him. So I left. I almost wrote him a note to say goodbye. Can you believe that, a Dear John letter to a hologram?
EMH: I understand your trepidation, but you're the Captain. You can't have a relationship with a member of your crew. They're all your subordinates. So, where does that leave you? The occasional dalliance with a passing alien? Voyager could be in the Delta quadrant for a very long time. A hologram may be the only logical alternative.
JANEWAY: He's not real.
EMH: He's as real as I am. Photons and force fields, flesh and blood. It's all the same as long as your feelings are real. He makes a joke, you laugh. Is that an illusion? He says something that makes you think. Does it matter how his molecules are aligned? Did it ever occur to you that it's not just a question of whether or not he's real?
JANEWAY: What do you mean?
EMH: I think you should stop trying to control every aspect of this relationship. Romance is born out of differences as well as similarities. Out of the unexpected, as well as the familiar.
JANEWAY: Maybe I just needed to be sure…that he'd love me back.
EMH: But isn't that the risk you always take, hologram or not? All I know is, Michael Sullivan was up in that tree shouting your name.
JANEWAY: I've never been afraid of taking risks.
EMH: Then perhaps next time you should just let him snore.

can't think of any other biggies unless you count in Shattered when she asked Future Chakotay if they were doing it. Or when she shot down Chakotay in Resolutions, or talked about a possible truth underpinning her deceit with kashyk, and then there was a stiff conversation with her lover from her brainwashed life in Workforce and her sad face when she found out Mark had remarried....


I think she had something sapphic going on with Amelia too.