How has this movie changed Classic Trek history...?

[Warped9]

No one has to accept a goddamned thing if they don't want to. They're free to ignore any crap they wish. Particularly crap of the purist kind.

If the nuTrek writers choose to ignore TOS continuity (which they have) then fans are free to ignore whatever the nuTrek zombies crank out.

 

[plynch]

My position is that the Spock and Nero we saw came from an alternate universe in the first place (which would explain why Spock didn't immediately begin his calculations for a time warp to correct the whole mess, and why he thought Kirk should've been a captain at the age of 25; this Spock never had the same experience with time travel as "our" Spock, and his Kirk made Captain significantly faster).

Further, they time travelled back to an alternate timeline, either their own or yet another one, and proceeded to screw up THAT one, leaving the mainline Star Trek universe completely unmolested.

They wanna play the alternate universe card, well, this is where it leads once you open up that door.

This totally insulates the prime universe, PU, from the JJverse.

I like this so much, I'm going to tell people I thought of it.

It's obvious to me the movie never broaches the TOS timeline we know, since the ship, interior design, clothes, etc. are already different on the Kelvin before Nero appears then.

 

[Trekwatcher]

I never really think much about the movie timeline anymore except for when I watch the movie itself. When I watch the shows I just see them in their own timeline.

 

[Bill Morris]

Well, Nimoy's comment about people who don't like the movie downgrades TOS for me.

 

[Mirren Audax]

It hasn't changed a damn thing, because it never had anything to do with Classic Trek history.

They started from one alternate universe, leap frogged back to another alternate universe and screwed up the timeline of that one. The never came near the timeline we know.

I keep telling myself that too.

I like that theory as well.

I came out of the cinema into an alternate reality - well, it felt like it, actually it felt weird.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No one has to accept a goddamned thing if they don't want to. They're free to ignore any crap they wish. Particularly crap of the purist kind.

If the nuTrek writers choose to ignore TOS continuity (which they have) then fans are free to ignore whatever the nuTrek zombies crank out.

Ignoring something doesn't change the reality of the situation. No one is saying you must like or accept what they do. (at least I'm not) but the reality is they've been hired to make Star Trek. And it looks like theirs will be the prevailing vision for the time being. TOS still exists, this movie will not change that. You can read and watch that version of Trek anytime you want. ( I know I do)

No one forced you to watch this movies. Its was your choice. You knew you wouldn't like and went ahead and watched it any.

MOAR NUTREK PLEEZE


I don't mind your disagrement, its just the disagreeable way you express it. You're not content with disliking the movie, you have to dislike and disparage the people who enjoyed it. And thats the sad part.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My position is that the Spock and Nero we saw came from an alternate universe in the first place (which would explain why Spock didn't immediately begin his calculations for a time warp to correct the whole mess, and why he thought Kirk should've been a captain at the age of 25; this Spock never had the same experience with time travel as "our" Spock, and his Kirk made Captain significantly faster).

Further, they time travelled back to an alternate timeline, either their own or yet another one, and proceeded to screw up THAT one, leaving the mainline Star Trek universe completely unmolested.

They wanna play the alternate universe card, well, this is where it leads once you open up that door.

This totally insulates the prime universe, PU, from the JJverse.

I like this so much, I'm going to tell people I thought of it.

It's obvious to me the movie never broaches the TOS timeline we know, since the ship, interior design, clothes, etc. are already different on the Kelvin before Nero appears then.

Different that what? The way they looked like two decades in the future? By that logic TOS and TMP take place in a different "timeline" than "the Cage" and "WNMHGB"

 

[Ronald Held]

The Kelvin is a strong indication that Nero and Spsock did not just go back in time but also to a parallel universe, not the Prime Universe.

 

[Warped9]

No one has to accept a goddamned thing if they don't want to. They're free to ignore any crap they wish. Particularly crap of the purist kind.

If the nuTrek writers choose to ignore TOS continuity (which they have) then fans are free to ignore whatever the nuTrek zombies crank out.

Ignoring something doesn't change the reality of the situation. No one is saying you must like or accept what they do. (at least I'm not) but the reality is they've been hired to make Star Trek. And it looks like theirs will be the prevailing vision for the time being. TOS still exists, this movie will not change that. You can read and watch that version of Trek anytime you want. ( I know I do)

No one forced you to watch this movies. Its was your choice. You knew you wouldn't like and went ahead and watched it any.

MOAR NUTREK PLEEZE

I don't mind your disagrement, its just the disagreeable way you express it. You're not content with disliking the movie, you have to dislike and disparage the people who enjoyed it. And thats the sad part.

I watched it be fair, because anyone can be surprised. I don't give a shit if you don't like how I express myself because for your information I disparaged NO ONE. I simply said I think the movie is crap. If you infer that as putting someone else down who liked it then that's your problem and you are wrong.

If on the other hand you might infer from my apparent tone that I think you're a jackass then you'd be right...for once.

Okay, Mods, I'll take my warning now because I've had more than enough of this clown all these years.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Everybody will tell you it hasn't changed a damn thing.

Through my eyes, it has created and will perpetuate a misleading impression about the Original Series and how it all began. Reducing it to whatever popular culture deems Star Trek should be and what outsiders think it always has been. Kirk exists purely to bang chicks, green or otherwise. Sulu absolutely loves to go nuts with a sword. Spock is an iceberg, who is attainable to women who try hard enough. Frankly most won't bother trying to seek out the truth, because history proves that the victor wins. It's made especially hard because you have to see all 80 TOS episodes to piece together what kind of backstory these characters have with each other. It isn't like TNG-ENT Trek, where the story of their first encounter is largely spelt out for you within a 90 minute adventure. They could have been faithful to all that, given a decent prequel trilogy to play with. But they weren't alowed more than a single film to tell such a complex story. A potted history across ships which aren't necessarily the Enterprise... (yes for Spock, no in Kirk's case). So hey presto, you bring in Nero to screw up history so much, they now have free reign and can avoid doing any such homework. Forget about the difference between sets made in 1965 and 2008. All it took was not to outright contradict the landmarks in each of these crew members' lives. They used a sledgehammer to crack a nut by abandoning a well loved universe, in favour of creating something they could stamp their authority over instead.

They don't care about some obscure reference to Obsession, or A Piece of the Action, or bother to watch The Cage or Where No Man Has Gone Before. Oh there's one writer in the mix, who really knows his stuff... (their self appointed title - the Supreme Court) but it is casual fans with all the professional clout and now a studio can demand the same formula be repeated. The fans they've created just want the Chris Pine or Zachary Quinto interpretations. It's the same phenomena I've noticed with the other great love in my fanboy life - Doctor Who. The formula gets experimental to match a new audience larger than the faithful who hung in there waiting for it return. Then finally it stops being the very thing you loved in the first place.

Until the day I die, I'll be forever countering younger fans, telling me this absurd story about how James Kirk became Captain of the Enterprise as a green 20-something. What the meaning of Doctor McCoy's nickname actually isn't.

And *sigh* how instead of saying "Engage", Pike has a fondess for saying "Punch it" (because he always liked Star Wars better presumably). After half a dozen especially annoying times of being lectured about his catchphrase, I just might prove them right too...

 

[T'Bonz]

Two warnings.

One to Nerys Myk for trolling (the picture.)

One to Warped9 for flaming.

and for having to remember *how* to give a warning.

Hopefully, this ends here. You've had your petty snipes, now can we just talk Trek without the dramatics?

Thank you.

 

[Trekwatcher]

\ The formula gets experimental to match a new audience larger than the faithful who hung in there waiting for it return. Then finally it stops being the very thing you loved in the first place.

Exactly. EXACTLY. You hit it right on the head. Readers of this board may recall how I have grappled with this film. I left the theater stunned, disappointed, and dismayed. In all fairness, on subsequent viewings I have found some things in the new movie I like and can live with, but overall I think it was a huge misstep to go the way they did.

 

[Warped9]

Batman Begins and Casino Royale. Two films that reset and rebooted their respective franchises. Two films that were fun and smart in concert. Two films that updated their respective franchises while still delivering on the main things that fans of the respective properties loved. Two films that disappointed few earlier audiences while attracting new ones. Two films that respected their original source materials while reaching out to contemporary audiences.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I watched it be fair, because anyone can be surprised. I don't give a shit if you don't like how I express myself because for your information I disparaged NO ONE. I simply said I think the movie is crap. If you infer that as putting someone else down who liked it then that's your problem and you are wrong.

I've noticed this about the Trek XI partisans: they tend to take strong criticism of the film--even from those who, like me, enjoyed it--as strong criticism of themselves and then they respond with personal attacks. From this thread, we get "crybabies" and from a thread over in Trek XI about Kirk's absurdly rapid ascendancy to captain, we got "whiny slugs." There's nothing for it at this stage, I guess, save pity.

 

[RAMA]

Batman Begins and Casino Royale. Two films that reset and rebooted their respective franchises. Two films that were fun and smart in concert. Two films that updated their respective franchises while still delivering on the main things that fans of the respective properties loved. Two films that disappointed few earlier audiences while attracting new ones. Two films that respected their original source materials while reaching out to contemporary audiences.

Exactly what the new ST film did, to resounding success....both in terms of box office and critical success, plus the trickle of awards as we start to head into award season.

To answer the OP...they didn't change anything, its an alternate history...everybody happy right? As long as you have a life outside of Trek anyway.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

Batman Begins and Casino Royale. Two films that reset and rebooted their respective franchises. Two films that were fun and smart in concert. Two films that updated their respective franchises while still delivering on the main things that fans of the respective properties loved. Two films that disappointed few earlier audiences while attracting new ones. Two films that respected their original source materials while reaching out to contemporary audiences.

Exactly what the new ST film did, to resounding success....both in terms of box office and critical success, plus the trickle of awards as we start to head into award season.

To answer the OP...they didn't change anything, its an alternate history...everybody happy right? As long as you have a life outside of Trek anyway.

RAMA

I can only say that we must agree to disagree, because I think that nuTrek missed everything of substance that made TOS work and widely appreciated. It only delivered caricatures and expectations of the lowest denominator. And I strongly suspect that nuTrek will not age well and in time will be looked upon with far more criticism than it is presently.

 

[RAMA]

Batman Begins and Casino Royale. Two films that reset and rebooted their respective franchises. Two films that were fun and smart in concert. Two films that updated their respective franchises while still delivering on the main things that fans of the respective properties loved. Two films that disappointed few earlier audiences while attracting new ones. Two films that respected their original source materials while reaching out to contemporary audiences.

Exactly what the new ST film did, to resounding success....both in terms of box office and critical success, plus the trickle of awards as we start to head into award season.

To answer the OP...they didn't change anything, its an alternate history...everybody happy right? As long as you have a life outside of Trek anyway.

RAMA

I can only say that we must agree to disagree, because I think that nuTrek missed everything of substance that made TOS work and widely appreciated. It only delivered caricatures and expectations of the lowest denominator. And I strongly suspect that nuTrek will not age well and in time will be looked upon far more critically than presently.

Well at best, the characters of TOS were very identifiable, but not really developed. With a new ST, JJ Abrams wanted to have development that people...especially new fans could latch onto..."why should we be interested in these characters that have a lot of history but are new to us?". So he started off by putting in details that made them familiar as the old characters were but added something to springboard development from. I think we're going to see a lot more of it after the introduction in this movie. I think those go far beyond creating caricatures. Shatner and co could only have dreamed of this.

RAMA

 

[Kelso]

Batman Begins and Casino Royale. Two films that reset and rebooted their respective franchises. Two films that were fun and smart in concert. Two films that updated their respective franchises while still delivering on the main things that fans of the respective properties loved. Two films that disappointed few earlier audiences while attracting new ones. Two films that respected their original source materials while reaching out to contemporary audiences.

Exactly what the new ST film did, to resounding success....both in terms of box office and critical success, plus the trickle of awards as we start to head into award season.

Oh, I don't know about that. I loved XI, but I certainly wouldn't say that it succeeded (creatively) in the same way that Batman Begins or Casino Royale did. It's closer to the Iron Man or Spiderman films, I suppose. Though, I found it funnier, more engaging, and all-around better than either of those. Not that I'm biased towards Trek, of course.

I guess it depends on which TOS you're adapting. Balance of Terror? The Gamesters of Triskellion? Spock's Brain?

As much as I enjoyed the film we got, I definitely would have preferred a TOS adaptation that drew its inspiration from the first season of the show. Which, in my mind at least, would have been more like a cross between Master and Commander and Rendezvous with Rama... as opposed to Pirates of the Caribbean and Star Wars (not to imply that I don't enjoy Pirates of the Caribbean and Star Wars- I do.)

If the nuTrek writers choose to ignore TOS continuity (which they have)

...in the time-honored TOS traditon.

 

[Warped9]

Exactly what the new ST film did, to resounding success....both in terms of box office and critical success, plus the trickle of awards as we start to head into award season.

To answer the OP...they didn't change anything, its an alternate history...everybody happy right? As long as you have a life outside of Trek anyway.

RAMA

I can only say that we must agree to disagree, because I think that nuTrek missed everything of substance that made TOS work and widely appreciated. It only delivered caricatures and expectations of the lowest denominator. And I strongly suspect that nuTrek will not age well and in time will be looked upon far more critically than presently.

Well at best, the characters of TOS were very identifiable, but not really developed. With a new ST, JJ Abrams wanted to have development that people...especially new fans could latch onto..."why should we be interested in these characters that have a lot of history but are new to us?". So he started off by putting in details that made them familiar as the old characters were but added something to springboard development from. I think we're going to see a lot more of it after the introduction in this movie. I think those go far beyond creating caricatures. Shatner and co could only have dreamed of this.

RAMA

Again we must disagree. nuTrek created characters that seriously lacked convincing credibility. Everything about them came across as contrived and rubber stamped as if to say, "lets put this stuff in there because it'll be kinda cool and no one will pay any real attention that it doesn't make any sense."

TOS' characters could be larger than life yet even with little backstory the three main cast and many guest performers in particular often delivered well rounded and nuanced performances that implied so much more substance underneath. And they usually behaved in generally credible ways at least within context of the given stories.

Presently many accept nuTrek as some sort of definitive distillation of TOS. Yet it isn't anything of the sort. Rather it's a shallow caricature of what many non-fans think TOS is while many long time fans instinctively know is distantly wide of the mark of what TOS was as a whole.

 

[Warped9]

If the nuTrek writers choose to ignore TOS continuity (which they have)

...in the time-honored TOS traditon.

Yes, and totally fair in regards to a reboot. Yet in the process they also completely ignored or rejected or even outright didn't understand the essential core spirit of TOS, something which works like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, Casino Royale and the Spider-Man films most certainly got right.