Well, here's the first time I ever really had a posting discussion with Ghoul:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=79156&page=5
And DevilEyes
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=101568&page=8
As for being TOSers (an in-joke for you Brits), you can be one and a Niner. I even said that in a past post.
I will look at the links tomorrow.
Okay...had a chance to look at some of these links today.
Here are some comments:
1. You actually had a THREAD called
"DS9 Fans: The Bane of Our Very Existence, Part 9,782"?????
Is that a quote from me? Because I seem to recall saying something like that once with regard to the never-ending whining in the VOY forum about us.
Or did
Akiraprise just re-name the thread I posted in during my last ill-advised foray into the VOY forum?
Anyway, most excellent!
And I love how it's so LONG too! That totally rocks!
2. What I see going on between you and
GodBen is debate. And as I read it, it sounds to me as if the guy really WANTED to love VOY.....but while there are aspects he really liked alot, just couldn't get to an acceptable level of love, BY YOUR STANDARDS.
Now...I have a couple of things to say about that.
First - I know what it's like to really, REALLY want to love a show, but in the end, just not being able to find that love. For me, the show is
Californication. I LOVED
The X-Files. I mean, I REALLY loved it. And David Duchovney had, like semi-god status to me. But then I saw
Californiacation...a show I was EAGER to love, because I adore it's star. And I HATED it.
I mean, here was this guy who was so cool as Fox Mulder, being a drunken, slovenly, womanizing selfish jackass. And I just couldn't love it.
I suppose it is a testament to David Duchovney's acting that I hated that show, in a way. But nevertheless...the point is that it IS very possible to WANT to love a show, and just not finding much to love. That, to me, is not the mark of a troll or 'hater'. That, to me, is the mark of a devoted and sincere fan who was just disappointed, despite their best efforts and intentions.
Seems like that's where
GodBen was with VOY. At least in that thread. And I see in
kimc's sigline (which carries a GodBen quote) that apparently he doesn't HATE VOY like I hate
Californication. He just doesn't love it as much as he loves DS9.
And you can HARDLY fault him for that. I mean, I assume you love VOY more than you love/like DS9....assuming you like DS9 at all. And so you have to at least allow him the same right: to like one show more than another.
I will allow the VOY mods to comment on their thoughts regarding this now.
Akiraprise said he would be along sometime today to comment.
Second, you cannot expect people to all be exactly like you. To love some things just exactly as you love them...and hate other things in an identical manner and degree as you.
It is VERY clear to me that you don't love DS9 nearly as much as I do...or
GodBen does. You have LOTS of complaints about DS9. We have complaints too, but many fewer.
But that doesn't cause us to run around blasting you as a 'DS9 hater' all the time.
To us, we just
see and accept that it is normal for people to disagree. And in fact, on a message board, it is a GOOD thing for people to disagree. Because if everyone on this board agreed 100% about everything, it would be a pretty damned BORING place. If your nirvana existed on TrekBBS, we would have two types of threads on this board, and only two:
1.
I Loved XYZ!!! Didn't You???....followed by a bazillion posts saying "Yes! I loved it too!" (the end).
and the other type:
2.
I HATED XYZ!!! Didn't you???.....followed by the same bazillion posts, also all in agreement. (the end)
And MAN would that be boring.
I say this lovingly, but there is actually at least one forum on this board that is
exactly that way. And as much as I LOVE the show related to it...I have to say, the forum is a total snore zone....because EVERYONE who posts in there loves the show! And that is the LOST forum.
Good
GOD that forum is boring!!!!!
And the thing is that it is very likely the most exciting show on TV! So what the FUCK is up with that?????
If the LOST forum proves anything, it proves that every single poster in a forum LOVING a show is not necessarily a good thing. Because I can barely stir up a discussion in there to save my life.
Seriously.
And trust me...that is no fun at all.
I have been seriously considering joining another board (something I haven't done in a VERY long time) just to find SOMEONE to talk about LOST with. Because wow, our LOST forum is pathetic.
Man, I'd WELCOME a poster who disliked the show coming in there....just to have someone to talk to!
Seriously.
Now, as for your discussion with
DevilEyes in that link above, quite frankly, I find YOU being more of a DS9 'hater' than I find
DevilEyes being a VOY 'hater'. You were just blasting AWAY at DS9. I mean, you were VERY critical.
So why is it acceptable for YOU to blast away at DS9, and not expect a response?
Do you just expect these guys to just agree with you and start referring to you as 'Oh Wise One' or something? I mean, seriously? What do you expect when you say stuff like:
You complain about character inconsistency, yet DS9 did that just as much or just had contrived tack-ons for the hell of it like Bashir's augmentation, Odo and Kira just bushing around for 7 years, Sisko's "romance", and whatever the heck they wasted on the Ferengi.
From where I sit,
Anwar, you are holding onto one of the biggest double standards I have ever seen a poster have the nuts to hold on this board.
It is okay for YOU to blast DS9...but it is not okay for them to defend it? Or to debate the accuracy of your remarks???
From where I sit,
Anwar, I don't think this is
really about DS9 Fan VOY 'haters' at all. I think this is REALLY about your frustration over your own lack of ability as a debater.
You can't debate worth a damn....but rather than work to improve your technique, you just write off anyone who disagrees with you and makes a few good points as a 'hater'....and then you commence whining ENDLESSLY about them in hopes that they will either finally get sick of your whining and flame you.....or go away after realizing that there is no point in debating with a person who can't take the heat.
I don't see 'haters' there. I see folks who enjoy a good spirited debate...and who DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY when others disagree with them....because they understand that the whole POINT of a message board such as this - the thing that makes it FUN, is the challenge of defending your beliefs. Not via endless whining whenever you can't hold your own....but via sucking it up, growing some frakkin' BALLS, and not feeling the NEED to have everyone on earth agree with you about everything.
Really,
Anwar....if what you want is for everyone on earth to always agree with you 100% of the time, then go debate with your mother...or someone else who lives and dies off of your every utterance. Because I got news for you:
You ain't gonna find such a person on these here internets. 
It's a rough and tumble world out here in cyberspace. And TrekBBS, because of it's moderation, is the
BABY POOL, my friend.
If you can't take the kind of small-time heat those guys were giving you in that thread without resorting to whining....then you'd better not EVER leave the safety of the VOY forum.
Because that just isn't the way the rest of the internet is run.
Shoot....even in HERE, I give these guys a lot of latitude. Because one thing I'll say for my krew....they don't take shit personally. If someone hates DS9, we couldn't POSSIBLY care less. We will debate them...and we will debate them hard. In fact, in here, we LOVE a good debate (no whining though - whiners make us crazy)! But you will NEVER find a Niner whining about how the 'haters' are making them miserable. We just suck it up, debate the people who are worth debating....and put the idiots on ignore. Except for yours truly, who sadly, cannot put anyone on ignore.
We do not CARE if you hate DS9,
Anwar. We really don't. It matters not one BIT to us if you hate every single MINUTE of DS9, and it does not effect our enjoyment of the show one iota.
But Jesus Tapdancin' CHRIST! STOP THE FRAKKIN' WHINING, already, and be a MAN.
Stop CARING what
GodBen thinks....or what
DevilEyes thinks. I mean, who the fuck are THEY to you anyway? And why does their like or dislike of a TV show effect your life one little BIT???? They are
NOBODY to you!!! They are usernames in the internet!!!! What DIFFERENCE does it make if
DevilEyes dislikes Neelix????
Does it take
THAT little of a bump in the road to ruin your life????
That is why this whole thing is just so ridiculous to me...and why you just need to STOP this shit.
Come in here....tell us how much you hate DS9 (backing up your posts, of course, per the rules). We don't care! But stop with the frakkin' whining about 'haters'. Blast away at the SHOW all you like.
But lay the fuck OFF the fans.
Because the continuous whining about this fan group is going to start netting you trolling warnings.
The rules are quite clear about this. Complaints about a SHOW are okay. Complaints about a FAN GROUP are not. It's trolling.
And I've had enough of it.
