Ideal family size

[LeahBoBo]

2 kids are fine as long as they can be supported and cared for, and no one is expecting me to have them. I'd rather have a dog.

 

[RJDiogenes]

2 children per couple gives you basically zero population growth or decline.

Only if the parents kill themselves at the moment of birth. Otherwise you end up with what we have: A serious overpopulation problem.

 

[John Picard]

2 children per couple gives you basically zero population growth or decline.

Only if the parents kill themselves at the moment of birth. Otherwise you end up with what we have: A serious overpopulation problem.

No, that would be the Duggar family.

 

[Miss Chicken]

re Joshua Howard's reply:

Let's toss a little reality into the mix. Try factoring in $600 for daycare for one month/one child. Rent for 2bedroom = $1250-$1600
Gas is more like $55/week or $220/month

Still need a pile of $ for the child-$500 isn't unrealistic as kids accumulate medical bills.
Also, Insurance(health). $105

Food-I'd like to know where you shop. With one gallon of milk at $3.99 to $4.50, one block of cheese(for single child) running $3.50 a week we're looking at about $7.50/wk or $30/month just for milk&cheese for the child-and I'm not eating or drinking any of that, nor is the wife. So $60 for milk and cheese alone each month. Realistic food bill(while maintaining a healthy diet) is more like $500-$600 a month.

Plus $100-$150/month in auto repairs-not because car breaks down all of the time but because one breakdown on a credit card can leave you with that much in payments each month for an extended period.

Now let's go a step further-personal insurance is 50/50 by the employer's plan so another $80 to cover me(I smoke-shame on me) and $65 to cover non-smoking wife.

And for a touch of realism, since 1 in 10 Americans are currently unemployed, let's slash that unemployed spouse's income to, say $600/2wk, which is how much you would get if your last job paid $25K/yr. Scratch dinner out, scratch Starbucks(haven't been in one since Jan!), scratch new DVDs. No excess driving.

Number of children supportable under this more realistic model without sacrificing quality of life=0.

Number I'm raising=1. And please don't say-well, that's just your situation. I live in a middle-class neighborhood, have middle-class friends and at least half of them are in the same economic boat. And, yeah, we're all pulling in $50K+ per year(or we were).

I just thought your numbers failed to reflect typical prices and "extras" like health insurance, "emergencies" like car repairs and ongoing credit card payments/medical payments etc.

My problem with what you say is that ir certain things that people can do without some of those things or those things would cost considerably less depending on where you live.

In many places one can live without a car. Most Australian capital cities and I imagine many European and Canadian cities, and some American cities, have very good and affordable public transport systems. I managed to bring up three children (two of them disabled) without needing a car.

I have also managed to do without a credit card for my entire life.

Plus in most countries the cost of health insurance is more affordable than in the US.

 

[Supreme Admiral]

^Ted Kennedy only had 3 children, plus 2 step-children. Perhaps you mean Bobby, who had 11.

I thought that he's many children? From the funeral service, I saw too many family members were there to bid him farewell. Are you sure about that? Bobby had 11 kids?

 

[sidious618]

The ideal? For me? None. For others? Whatever they want, I guess.

 

[ShimmeringFacet]

2 children per couple gives you basically zero population growth or decline.

Only if the parents kill themselves at the moment of birth. Otherwise you end up with what we have: A serious overpopulation problem.

Unfortunately, it seems few care about overpopulation. Perhaps we'll keep going until nearly every bit of green and wilderness is paved and we all live on top of each other in huge apartment blocks like rats. Or there could be some environmental collapse. There's my misanthropic view

It would be great if having children were seen much more neutrally. When everyone feels like it's something they have to do a lot of people end up having kids who shouldn't have, and who didn't really even want them deep down and were not prepared for the care and investment of time it takes. It's NOT ok to just park your kid in front of the tv or computer and pretty much leave it at that.

 

[Cakes488]

The ideal? For me? None. For others? Whatever they want, I guess.

That's not a very popular stance when it comes to the ladies my friend. Most of em wanna hear that you want to procreate...could be a dealbreaker my dear.

 

[nevermore]

^There are plenty of women who don't want kids.

^Ted Kennedy only had 3 children, plus 2 step-children. Perhaps you mean Bobby, who had 11.

I thought that he's many children? From the funeral service, I saw too many family members were there to bid him farewell. Are you sure about that? Bobby had 11 kids?

Yes, I'm sure. It's a large family, but they weren't all Teddy's kids. Also, there were probably a few people there who weren't family members...

 

[Supreme Admiral]

^Ted Kennedy only had 3 children, plus 2 step-children. Perhaps you mean Bobby, who had 11.

I thought that he's many children? From the funeral service, I saw too many family members were there to bid him farewell. Are you sure about that? Bobby had 11 kids?

Yes, I'm sure. It's a large family, but they weren't all Teddy's kids. Also, there were probably a few people there who weren't family members...

Thanks for telling me that. I appreciated that.

 

[LeahBoBo]

The ideal? For me? None. For others? Whatever they want, I guess.

That's not a very popular stance when it comes to the ladies my friend. Most of em wanna hear that you want to procreate...could be a dealbreaker my dear.

It's not a terribly unpopular stance with women. I'd say exactly half of my female friends are childless by choice.

 

[John Picard]

^There are plenty of women who don't want kids.

^Ted Kennedy only had 3 children, plus 2 step-children. Perhaps you mean Bobby, who had 11.

I thought that he's many children? From the funeral service, I saw too many family members were there to bid him farewell. Are you sure about that? Bobby had 11 kids?

Yes, I'm sure. It's a large family, but they weren't all Teddy's kids. Also, there were probably a few people there who weren't family members...

Look at them, bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed.

 

[pigletsgiblets]

I am childless and plan on staying that way.

 

[trampledamage]

^There are plenty of women who don't want kids.

I thought that he's many children? From the funeral service, I saw too many family members were there to bid him farewell. Are you sure about that? Bobby had 11 kids?

Yes, I'm sure. It's a large family, but they weren't all Teddy's kids. Also, there were probably a few people there who weren't family members...

Look at them, bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed.

I think the Kennedy clan can well afford to feed all of their children.

 

[Data Holmes]

I'll never understand people who have no desire, and sometimes an aversion to, having children.

 

[pigletsgiblets]

I'll never understand people who have no desire, and sometimes an aversion to, having children.

I'm not fond of children and I've never had the maternal feeling for them.

 

[Data Holmes]

I'll never understand people who have no desire, and sometimes an aversion to, having children.

I'm not fond of children and I've never had the maternal feeling for them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking anyone with that stance. Nor am I the type who attempts to convert you over into the "wants children column. I just don't understand the sentiment.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'll never understand people who have no desire, and sometimes an aversion to, having children.

I am one of these people. I simply don't want the responsibility. Hey, at least I'm honest, right?

I *admit* that I'd probably make a shitty father. I definitely couldn't even come close to being the kind of father that my dad was - he was (and is) great. He knew exactly what to do as he raised me (which he did himself, I might add, as my mom was very sick for most of my childhood and eventually died ). He could handle the responsibility. I would not be able to.

I just don't have a clue about what being a father means. I wouldn't have the slightest idea what to do. I have nothing against children, I just don't want any of my own. I know I could never handle the strain. The first time I had to stay awake for a fucking week trying to deal with a crying baby, I'd probably hang myself. No way could I take that kind of work load. Why is it a bad thing to just admit that up front, and forget about the whole thing? Better that than the alternative, right?

 

[Joshua Howard]

I'm not fond of children and I've never had the maternal feeling for them.

^ Interesting you say so. As a 21 year old male, I thusfar have never felt that babies are ever, in any manner whatsoever, cute or pleasant. I've kind of assumed that if I ever actually have children of my own, I might change my mind... but for some reason that is hard for me to imagine.

Walking, talking children, however, I think are quite nice if they are well mannered and well groomed. If, however, they are whining, screaming brats, I definitely do not like them.

 

[trampledamage]

Funnily enough, I never felt maternal feelings towards anyone else's children either. But I also knew I wanted to have some of my own. I was also shit-scared that I wouldn't be able to cope. I had no experience with babies at all, no instinct towards it, I don't do well on lack of sleep and I don't handle stress very well.

But I'm doing okay now and my kids are happy