Code of Honor-What would you have done differently?

[Joel_Kirk]

I enjoyed this episode. Granted it was late 80s TNG, so a couple of things were a bit over-the-top than later seasons...

I recall thinking it was cool to see a planet full of black individuals (something we didn't get to see in the original series). Of course, I thought it was pretty cool to have an episode focused on Tasha Yar...one of my favorite characters.

I do find it interesting that Brent Spiner believes this episode to be 'racist' and a 1940s portrayal of black individuals.

Hmmm, 1940s portrayal had bug-eyed black people like Stepin Fetchit, Manta Mooreland, and...uh...stereotypical views of black women....i.e Butterfly McQueen, and 'that actress I forget: What's-her-name-from-Gone with the Wind'...

What did LeVar Burton or Michael Dorn--two black actors-- think of the episode?

I thought Yareena was cool...and tough...(and yes, sexy). I would have liked to have seen some follow-up on the Ligon II inhabitants. (I do like Yareena making Lutan her 'second'...basically taking away his status).

However, for those who didn't care for the episode, what would you have done differently?

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

There was a Topic on the Ep a few months back? at least the OP of that topic DID NOT GET why some saw the ep as racist

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

I enjoyed this episode. Granted it was late 80s TNG, so a couple of things were a bit over-the-top than later seasons...

I recall thinking it was cool to see a planet full of black individuals (something we didn't get to see in the original series). Of course, I thought it was pretty cool to have an episode focused on Tasha Yar...one of my favorite characters.

I do find it interesting that Brent Spiner believes this episode to be 'racist' and a 1940s portrayal of black individuals.

Hmmm, 1940s portrayal had bug-eyed black people like Stepin Fetchit, Manta Mooreland, and...uh...stereotypical views of black women....i.e Butterfly McQueen, and 'that actress I forget: What's-her-name-from-Gone with the Wind'...

What did LeVar Burton or Michael Dorn--two black actors-- think of the episode?

I thought Yareena was cool...and tough...(and yes, sexy). I would have liked to have seen some follow-up on the Ligon II inhabitants. (I do like Yareena making Lutan her 'second'...basically taking away his status).

However, for those who didn't care for the episode, what would you have done differently?

I would NOT know where to start
I found the episode Annoying, Forced oh Yes BLACK MAN Plots to GET White Woman for himself
I'm also one of those who see this Episode as somewhat Racist

Hmm...

Well this came to mind instead of having inferior to The FEDS in every way except having the Medicine have them be ahead of the FED in a few areas

 

[tharpdevenport]

This is hands down the worst episode of TNG, maybe even worse than "Spock Brain" or that episode of D.S.9. I can't recall the title of. It's godawful and unforgivable in every aspect from the writing to the acting and everything inbetween, except Fred Steiner's score -- which I don't recall, so I can't comment.

What I would have done differently: not make this episode AT ALL. I'm sure there were better ideas tossed about the office.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Burn the tape.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Burn the tape.

[Sisko]"But the most damning thing of all ... I think I can live with it."[/Sisko]

 

[Joel_Kirk]

This is hands down the worst episode of TNG, maybe even worse than "Spock Brain" or that episode of D.S.9. I can't recall the title of. It's godawful and unforgivable in every aspect from the writing to the acting and everything inbetween, except Fred Steiner's score -- which I don't recall, so I can't comment.

What I would have done differently: not make this episode AT ALL. I'm sure there were better ideas tossed about the office.

That doesn't say anything.

Are you sayingn that a story about planet with all dark-skinned individuals is automatically racist?

How do you think they should have been portrayed? How do you think the story should have been told?

I enjoyed this episode. Granted it was late 80s TNG, so a couple of things were a bit over-the-top than later seasons...

I recall thinking it was cool to see a planet full of black individuals (something we didn't get to see in the original series). Of course, I thought it was pretty cool to have an episode focused on Tasha Yar...one of my favorite characters.

I do find it interesting that Brent Spiner believes this episode to be 'racist' and a 1940s portrayal of black individuals.

Hmmm, 1940s portrayal had bug-eyed black people like Stepin Fetchit, Manta Mooreland, and...uh...stereotypical views of black women....i.e Butterfly McQueen, and 'that actress I forget: What's-her-name-from-Gone with the Wind'...

What did LeVar Burton or Michael Dorn--two black actors-- think of the episode?

I thought Yareena was cool...and tough...(and yes, sexy). I would have liked to have seen some follow-up on the Ligon II inhabitants. (I do like Yareena making Lutan her 'second'...basically taking away his status).

However, for those who didn't care for the episode, what would you have done differently?

I would NOT know where to start
I found the episode Annoying, Forced oh Yes BLACK MAN Plots to GET White Woman for himself
I'm also one of those who see this Episode as somewhat Racist

Hmm...

Well this came to mind instead of having inferior to The FEDS in every way except having the Medicine have them be ahead of the FED in a few areas

Well, the Baku people in ST: Insurrection were primarily 'white' and somewhat 'inferior'--if you can call them that--save for the knowledge that their planet slowed down the effects of aging...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Are you sayingn that a story about planet with all dark-skinned individuals is automatically racist?

If it's written that way, yes.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Are you sayingn that a story about planet with all dark-skinned individuals is automatically racist?

If it's written that way, yes.

Did I actually type 'sayingn'? {I need to stop typing so fast! lol}

Anywho,

So, Star Trek: Insurrection, in your eyes, was racist, correct?

 

[EmperorTiberius]

I don't think there is anything racist about it. I didn't even think about it until I saw it on here a couple of months ago.

 

[JarodRussell]

Code of Honor is like the second or third episode of TNG? I think it gets criticized way too much.

I don't consider that episode racist. Why should anyone? Just because they are black? Would you change your mind if they wore alien make up?

 

[Kegg]

Well, according to Memory Alpha:

In this episode, the entire humanoid population of the planet is portrayed by African-American performers. In the teleplay, however, only Lutan's guards were specifically written as being black. It was director Russ Mayberry's idea to make all the planet's occupants black. Disgusted by this decision and Mayberry's attitude towards the performers, Gene Roddenberry fired Mayberry late in production. The remainder of the episode was directed by an uncredited Les Landu.

While this account seems to put most of the blame on Mayberry's casting choices and general attitude, the original teleplay where only the guards are black is still reinforcing racial stereotypes. So there are problems with the script amplified by the costumes, the casting, and Mayberry's view of the cast.

What would I do? Well, even forgetting the racism for a moment, the script, like a lot of the scripts for early TNG, is honestly dreadful. I'd scupper the whole thing and start from scratch. Maybe a Yar-centered episode, keep the names of the planet and various guest-star characters... but that'd be about it.

If I still went ahead with casting most or all of the planet's members as black, well, I wouldn't turn them into tribal savages wearing goofy turbans who the civilized Enterprise crew must barter with for goods (and who want the strong-willed white wo-man).

How about a species of high-tech isolationists who are obsessed with creating their own utopia - and their government has developed a vaccine that could cure a pandemic effecting Federation worlds. Unfortunately, the planet is experiencing serious unrest and the government could use with the assitance and strategic knowledge of, well, people like Yar to crush dissent. TPTB suggest a tit-for-tat: You provide us what we need to destroy the opposition, we'll give you the vaccine.

Dare Picard and co. compromise their principles to stop the virulent pandemic? What does Yar, someone who was born on an excessively screwed-up planet with Federation connections, think of another utopia that's dangerously teetering on losing everything? Maybe she personally feels that what they're doing is right, Picard disagrees, conference, blah blah blah.

Or, you know, anything. My idea may be pretty lousy but at least it's not "Code of Honor".

This is hands down the worst episode of TNG, maybe even worse than "Spock Brain" or that episode of D.S.9.

I hate "Up the Long Ladder" more, but then, I guess when someone is racist against me it's personal.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't think Insurrection was racist. Where do people get that idea? The Ba'ku had a good reason for acting the way they did. They even explained it clearly. They weren't inferior - they had a great deal of knowledge and expertise, and even technology - they simply chose not to use it.

Remember when that one Ba'ku says that Data had damage that they couldn't repair? If they were as backwards as people think, they wouldn't have even known what Data was. True, their outward appearance was as simple farmers, but they could use technology when necessary. In emergencies, as it were.

 

[JarodRussell]

You could say the new movie is racist because of all the assembled Starfleet cadets, only like 5 % are non-American. But that's bullshit. Yes, they screwed up because it's unrealistic, but they aren't racists because of that.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I don't think Insurrection was racist. Where do people get that idea?

Well, I don't know about 'people'...but I just posed the question...

The Ba'ku had a good reason for acting the way they did. They even explained it clearly. They weren't inferior - they had a great deal of knowledge and expertise, and even technology - they simply chose not to use it.

Remember when that one Ba'ku says that Data had damage that they couldn't repair? If they were as backwards as people think, they wouldn't have even known what Data was. True, their outward appearance was as simple farmers, but they could use technology when necessary. In emergencies, as it were.

Well, they did seem pretty weak and clueless in regards to them being moved off the planet.

And Insurrection, IMO, was pretty dreadful. Worse than Star Trek V, so I'm impartial...

You could say the new movie is racist because of all the assembled Starfleet cadets, only like 5 % are non-American. But that's bullshit. Yes, they screwed up because it's unrealistic, but they aren't racists because of that.

Even if that were true, that's being partial to Americans, not racism....i.e. There are different races that are not American!

The new movie even had aliens that were portrayed by different races; the new movie was very 'Trek-ian' in its approach...

@Kegg,

That's a good, thorough, answer.

 

[JarodRussell]

Maybe I should have said caucasian. But since SF headquarters are in San Francisco, I figured "American" would suffice to get the point across.

 

[PTRACER]

As an episode, it's pretty awful, but I don't really feel it's racist. Depends if you would call Angel One sexist?

It's just one boring and easy way of making up an alien civilisation...

 

[Bones2]

I think it's fairly forgivable for not being unbelievably boring and not having Wesley saving the ship.

I'd have had Tasha die for the Feds to get the vaccine.

 

[Wingsley]

The "Code of Honor" story did seem pretty cheesy, even back then. I found it very hard to believe that a starship from a Federation of planets that had been exploring deep space for at least 200 years would allow one of their own officers to be abducted so easily... and from on-board ship, no less!

Another thing I found annoying about the story was Picard ordering the firing of those torpedoes. What good would that do? One of your officers is snatched off your ship, and so you fire a volley over everyone's heads?

Also note that Picard orders the torpedoes to detonate 1,000 meters above the planet's surface. In terms of nuke yields, if those torpedoes have any firepower at all, that volley should've caused a global disaster. It's called an airburst. Airbursting photon torpedoes of any yield 1,000 meters above a planet surface is nothing if not an act of war.

That was one of many SPACE:1999 moments in TNG.

Beyond the tribal goofiness, the ep seems to show us a strange world indeed. These folks seem to have technology (at least, transporters) somewhat on par with the TOS era. And yet this advanced culture has a major incident with the Federation over the personal connivings of one man.

In theory, I do not have a problem with a planet of black humanoids with advanced transporter technology. It just smacks of silly, hackneyed writing when a planet of black humanoids with advanced transporter technology has an incident with the Federation as the result of connivings of one stupid "first dude" who exclaims "this is witchcraft!" when his poison spines don't result in death.

The funny thing is, if you take some of these over-the-top moments out and do a little clever re-writing the story might still work, black planet and all. For one thing, the story is going to be difficult to do in just one hour. To do it justice, there may have to be an episode showing the Enterprise-D encountering the Ligonese in space, as a kind of "Balance of Terror"-style ship-to-ship confrontation. Once we've established a major incident in deep space, then Starfleet would have a substantial reason to take the Ligonese people seriously that the audience would understand. Then the Enterprise-D could be dispatched to Ligon II for diplomatic purposes, maybe the Ligonese fleet confronts the Enterprise on approach, setting a different tone. Their ships could be inferior, maybe TOS-era or a little earlier, but they would clearly outnumber and outgun Picard's ship. Maybe Picard is allowed to approach the planet only so far, and he must beam aboard their ship, and that's when the abduction takes place. That makes the tone of the story much more interesting.

Perhaps Picard is able to negotiate the Enterprise to approach a terraformed colony (Ligon II-A) but not the homeworld. The fight takes place there, giving the Ligonese the chance to brag their accomplishments to the Federation but still keep the Enterprise at bay. And instead of the duel being the result of Lutan's personal scheme, maybe he's doing it out of fear of the Federation not unlike the suspicion expressed by Chancellor Durken of Malkor III. By Picard agreeing to the fight and then ordering Crusher to revive Yareena, Lutan would be impressed by the Federation's balance of combat abilities with respect for life, and he agrees to enter diplomatic relations with the Federation. Picard would caution him not to expect immediate results, because the confrontation will cause the Federation to move with caution.

That would make for a more sophisticated adventure, with serious characters having serious motives.

So, in the end, for this ep to work it needs a prequel not unlike "Balance of Terror", followed by a "homeworld" ep with a little injection of "First Contact", and maybe some "A Taste of Armageddon" thrown in. And no overhead torpedo volleys, please.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I don't think there is anything racist about it. I didn't even think about it until I saw it on here a couple of months ago.

You and me both....

Are you sayingn that a story about planet with all dark-skinned individuals is automatically racist?

If it's written that way, yes.

Mr. Laser Beam:

If a story has a planet full of dark-skinnned individuals, you will find it racist?

Please note, as we discussed earlier, there are planets with all Caucasians. There have been planets, I believe, with Native Americans, and a TNG novel with an all Asian population.

Do you object to those as well? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Code of Honor is like the second or third episode of TNG? I think it gets criticized way too much.

I don't consider that episode racist. Why should anyone? Just because they are black? Would you change your mind if they wore alien make up?

Maybe I should have said caucasian. But since SF headquarters are in San Francisco, I figured "American" would suffice to get the point across.

The new movie had an equal # of people, I think.

Trek 09 was more diverse than anything I've seen in the franchise...