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Experimental HIV Vaccine Reduces Chance of Infection by 31%

I think we should wait until they can reproduce that result before getting too excited.
 
Better than 100%, and it means that there may now be a path to developing a far more effective vaccine.

Exactly. Even if they could reliably prevent 50% of AIDS infections from taking place that would be millions of lives saved and millions of dollars in medication that could be used on a much smaller population of HIV/AIDS positive people. Think of all the unborn babies with mothers than have AIDs who might actually grow up.
 
Well the fact is that the vast majority of people who live outside of the hotspots won't get HIV. If they don't take injectable drugs,sleep around or sleep with people who have had partners. Places that are hit hardest by HIV are the ones where either non-monogamous sex along with no rights for women to say no to sex or drugs are common.

Personally in my opinion the best way to get rid of HIV is to starve it out. Male Circumcision,Condoms,Non-Anal sex and of obviously stopping injected drugs.

If the transmission rate in Wikipedia is rate. The chances of me getting HIV if I am exposed to it is 0.000255%.

Good Odds don't ya think?:techman: Phuket HERE I COME.
 
^ I agree with Bluesteel. Actually, I tend to have an almost cynical attitude toward the HIV problem. I know, I should be more open and respectful, but - one step at a time.

My philosophy is that social evolution will eliminate many of these problems. Education and running water is going to do alot more to snuff this problem out than medical research. What about all the Africans starving in the streets in HIV-infected zones? That can't just be a coincidence.
 
Fixing HIV is all well and good, but I'd rather people focused on cancer, AKA the one that actually has a good chance of killing many of us who don't engage in unsafe sexual practices.

Also, a 31% reduction doesn't = 69% chance if you get it on with someone that's HIV positive, as someone implied the transmission rates are FAR lower than you might expect. It's probably not well publicized with the reasoning that they don't want to give out the impression that HIV isn't a real concern.
 
Fixing HIV is all well and good, but I'd rather people focused on cancer, AKA the one that actually has a good chance of killing many of us who don't engage in unsafe sexual practices.

Cancer is already way overfunded when one looks at death rates and bang for the buck.

Really want to save lives? Donate to malaria relief. We already HAVE a cure, it costs mere cents, but over a million still die of it every year. Mostly young people too, which is not generally the case with cancer.
 
Fixing HIV is all well and good, but I'd rather people focused on cancer, AKA the one that actually has a good chance of killing many of us who don't engage in unsafe sexual practices.

Also, a 31% reduction doesn't = 69% chance if you get it on with someone that's HIV positive, as someone implied the transmission rates are FAR lower than you might expect. It's probably not well publicized with the reasoning that they don't want to give out the impression that HIV isn't a real concern.


IMHO, the increase in the occurrences of cancer is environmental -- specifically what MAN is dumping into the environment. I was told (and I have no verified it) that Iowa leads the US in cancers. What's in Iowa? Farms, and with farms comes loads and loads of pesticides. Couple that with all of the drugs pumped into the food supply (chicken, beef, pork) there are bound to be issues. Also note that for years, we've been told to dump old prescriptions drugs down the toilet only to discover that a majority of the US water supply is tainted with chemicals from prescription drugs that can't or aren't being filtered.

The sooner the US gets away from using chemicals and drugs on the food supply and gets back to nature the sooner cancer will start being eradicated. That, and an overall reduction in pollution.
 
Better than 100%, and it means that there may now be a path to developing a far more effective vaccine.

Exactly. Even if they could reliably prevent 50% of AIDS infections from taking place that would be millions of lives saved and millions of dollars in medication that could be used on a much smaller population of HIV/AIDS positive people. Think of all the unborn babies with mothers than have AIDs who might actually grow up.

After reading about this I did some checking and it seems you are being ,to put it bluntly, lied to.

What is astonishing is how some people actually lap this propaganda up without applying some simple checking.

Here is my simple calculations which show the bare faced lie this research actually is.

This study and its findings form a good example of how misleading such things can be.

While on the surface this reported 31% reduction in infection looks promising, they have skewed the figures in a very un-scientific way by only considering those test subjects who actually became infected.

What they should have done is shown the infection rates as percentages relative to both the trial (innoculated) group and the placebo group. Then we would see if there is a statistically significant result that might be attributable to the vaccine.

You have probably seen how infection rates for "swine flu" and other epidemics/pandemics are quoted both as net figures -- i.e. actual cases logged -- and as infections/100,000 of population.

That is
the correct way to do it, because without including the data of the size of the total subject group, the whole thing becomes misleading at best and meaningless at worst.

According to that article which summarizes the HIV Vaccine Trial, 8,197 people were given the vaccine and 8,198 were given a placebo. After three years, 51 of the vaccinated group had become infected with HIV, compared to 74 of the placebo group. So, let's look at the percentages of those infected in relation to all the people who participated in the study.

Percentages (Numbers rounded to 2 sig figs):

Of the vaccine group of 8,197, 0.62% (51) became infected -- and 99.38% (8146) did not.

Of the placebo group of 8,198, 0.90% (74) became infected -- and 99.10% (8,124) did not.

Of the total group of 16,395, 0.76% (125) became infected -- and 99.24% (16,270) did not.

Statistically, then, for any person in the group chosen at random (with no knowledge of whether they were vaccinated or not), the chances of this individual not being infected worked out at 99.24%, which is only 0.14% worse than if they were one of the vaccinated!

To put it another way, the vaccinated group only improved their odds of not being infected by 0.28%, compared to the placebo group.

This is such a small statistical difference that it falls well inside pure-chance variation.

There has to be an allowance for variation due to chance because we are dealing with humans and a communicable disease that's related to social behaviour, so even slight variations in the way the subjects behaved over that three-year period would yield some differences in their infection risk.

A net infection rate difference of 0.28% between the two groups is negligible.

Think about it.

It certainly wouldn't make me feel confident about using that vaccine as a protection against HIV infection.

This is why I say that their claim of 31% is misleading, because it only considers the participants who got infected, and not the two complete groups who were being monitored for those three years.Their claims seem to be a scam in my opinion.

But don't get me wrong: I applaud the efforts of these researchers in trying to do something to reduce the risk of HIV transmission, and also have nothing but admiration for all the people who volunteered to take part in the study. I just feel that the researchers were clutching at straws when they came up with that "31%" figure, and actually I suspect that the relatively low overall rate of infection in a high-risk region like Thailand was probably due to the counselling that all participants received. If the participants had not received any counselling at all about HIV prevention then the infection rates would likely have been higher -- and we might then have seen if the vaccine's effects were actually of any statistical significance.

According to avert.org, the rate of HIV infection among adults in Thailand is over 1%, so as this studied group is well below that, the counselling was probably a contributing positive factor.

(Ref: HIV and AIDS in Thailand )

I fear these headlines are spawned by various media hacks on the take after being fed by the assorted big business interests.In some cases they just copy/paste what ever bullshit is put in front of them after getting a free beer and a sandwich.

"Journalists" are so dirt cheap and corrupt nowadays.
 
After reading about this I did some checking and it seems you are being ,to put it bluntly, lied to.

What is astonishing is how some people actually lap this propaganda up without applying some simple checking.

Here is my simple calculations which show the bare faced lie this research actually is.

This study and its findings form a good example of how misleading such things can be.

While on the surface this reported 31% reduction in infection looks promising, they have skewed the figures in a very un-scientific way by only considering those test subjects who actually became infected.

What they should have done is shown the infection rates as percentages relative to both the trial (innoculated) group and the placebo group. Then we would see if there is a statistically significant result that might be attributable to the vaccine.

You have probably seen how infection rates for "swine flu" and other epidemics/pandemics are quoted both as net figures -- i.e. actual cases logged -- and as infections/100,000 of population.

That is
the correct way to do it, because without including the data of the size of the total subject group, the whole thing becomes misleading at best and meaningless at worst.

According to that article which summarizes the HIV Vaccine Trial, 8,197 people were given the vaccine and 8,198 were given a placebo. After three years, 51 of the vaccinated group had become infected with HIV, compared to 74 of the placebo group. So, let's look at the percentages of those infected in relation to all the people who participated in the study.

Percentages (Numbers rounded to 2 sig figs):

Of the vaccine group of 8,197, 0.62% (51) became infected -- and 99.38% (8146) did not.

Of the placebo group of 8,198, 0.90% (74) became infected -- and 99.10% (8,124) did not.

Of the total group of 16,395, 0.76% (125) became infected -- and 99.24% (16,270) did not.

Statistically, then, for any person in the group chosen at random (with no knowledge of whether they were vaccinated or not), the chances of this individual not being infected worked out at 99.24%, which is only 0.14% worse than if they were one of the vaccinated!

To put it another way, the vaccinated group only improved their odds of not being infected by 0.28%, compared to the placebo group.

This is such a small statistical difference that it falls well inside pure-chance variation.

There has to be an allowance for variation due to chance because we are dealing with humans and a communicable disease that's related to social behaviour, so even slight variations in the way the subjects behaved over that three-year period would yield some differences in their infection risk.

A net infection rate difference of 0.28% between the two groups is negligible.

Think about it.

It certainly wouldn't make me feel confident about using that vaccine as a protection against HIV infection.

This is why I say that their claim of 31% is misleading, because it only considers the participants who got infected, and not the two complete groups who were being monitored for those three years.Their claims seem to be a scam in my opinion.

But don't get me wrong: I applaud the efforts of these researchers in trying to do something to reduce the risk of HIV transmission, and also have nothing but admiration for all the people who volunteered to take part in the study. I just feel that the researchers were clutching at straws when they came up with that "31%" figure, and actually I suspect that the relatively low overall rate of infection in a high-risk region like Thailand was probably due to the counselling that all participants received. If the participants had not received any counselling at all about HIV prevention then the infection rates would likely have been higher -- and we might then have seen if the vaccine's effects were actually of any statistical significance.

According to avert.org, the rate of HIV infection among adults in Thailand is over 1%, so as this studied group is well below that, the counselling was probably a contributing positive factor.

(Ref: HIV and AIDS in Thailand )

I fear these headlines are spawned by various media hacks on the take after being fed by the assorted big business interests.In some cases they just copy/paste what ever bullshit is put in front of them after getting a free beer and a sandwich.

"Journalists" are so dirt cheap and corrupt nowadays.

Actually, the difference between the two groups is not negligible. A simple two-proportion z-test indicates that the p-value is 0.04 so we can reject the null hypothesis that the proportions are equal. At the 95% significance level, the HIV vaccine reduced infection.

I'm not sure why you think the 31% reduction is misleading either, as 0.62% infection rate means that you have a 31% lower chance of contracting HIV compared to a 0.9% infection rate - (0.9-0.62)/0.9 = 31.1%. Of course there will be an error term, so perhaps it's more like 31+/-10% or whatever, but the best estimate is still a 31% reduction.
 
Fixing HIV is all well and good, but I'd rather people focused on cancer, AKA the one that actually has a good chance of killing many of us who don't engage in unsafe sexual practices.

Cancer is already way overfunded when one looks at death rates and bang for the buck.

Really want to save lives? Donate to malaria relief. We already HAVE a cure, it costs mere cents, but over a million still die of it every year. Mostly young people too, which is not generally the case with cancer.

Well, I'm largely talking America here. All sorts of things kill people in the third world that shouldn't. As for donating... meh... the extent to which I donate is how much I'm taxed.

Fixing HIV is all well and good, but I'd rather people focused on cancer, AKA the one that actually has a good chance of killing many of us who don't engage in unsafe sexual practices.

Also, a 31% reduction doesn't = 69% chance if you get it on with someone that's HIV positive, as someone implied the transmission rates are FAR lower than you might expect. It's probably not well publicized with the reasoning that they don't want to give out the impression that HIV isn't a real concern.


IMHO, the increase in the occurrences of cancer is environmental -- specifically what MAN is dumping into the environment. I was told (and I have no verified it) that Iowa leads the US in cancers. What's in Iowa? Farms, and with farms comes loads and loads of pesticides. Couple that with all of the drugs pumped into the food supply (chicken, beef, pork) there are bound to be issues. Also note that for years, we've been told to dump old prescriptions drugs down the toilet only to discover that a majority of the US water supply is tainted with chemicals from prescription drugs that can't or aren't being filtered.

The sooner the US gets away from using chemicals and drugs on the food supply and gets back to nature the sooner cancer will start being eradicated. That, and an overall reduction in pollution.
Yeah. Go back to nature. That'll work. I'll make sure to note the cancer reductions amongst the survivors of your suicidal famine plan. :rolleyes:
 
Fixing HIV is all well and good, but I'd rather people focused on cancer, AKA the one that actually has a good chance of killing many of us who don't engage in unsafe sexual practices.

Also, a 31% reduction doesn't = 69% chance if you get it on with someone that's HIV positive, as someone implied the transmission rates are FAR lower than you might expect. It's probably not well publicized with the reasoning that they don't want to give out the impression that HIV isn't a real concern.


IMHO, the increase in the occurrences of cancer is environmental -- specifically what MAN is dumping into the environment. I was told (and I have no verified it) that Iowa leads the US in cancers. What's in Iowa? Farms, and with farms comes loads and loads of pesticides. Couple that with all of the drugs pumped into the food supply (chicken, beef, pork) there are bound to be issues. Also note that for years, we've been told to dump old prescriptions drugs down the toilet only to discover that a majority of the US water supply is tainted with chemicals from prescription drugs that can't or aren't being filtered.

The sooner the US gets away from using chemicals and drugs on the food supply and gets back to nature the sooner cancer will start being eradicated. That, and an overall reduction in pollution.
Yeah. Go back to nature. That'll work. I'll make sure to note the cancer reductions amongst the survivors of your suicidal famine plan. :rolleyes:

Really? You mean man was never able to grow crops before the advent of pesticides? Do you mean to tell me that our watersheds are meant to be polluted by runoff? You seem to be struck by the same arrogance that was displayed when Congress was told that nuclear power would be "too cheap to meter".
 
But are cancers increasing? Or, as with strongmind's example, do we just think they are?
 
But are cancers increasing? Or, as with strongmind's example, do we just think they are?

Cancer has been increasing. I was diagnosed with testicular cancer while in the Navy back in 1992 and was later contacted to participate in a study. During the telephone interview, the interviewer had informed me that out of the three branches of the military, the Army was experiencing the most startling increases in testicular cancer and the military was (at that time) trying to find out why.

Look at instances where residents were moved out of neighborhoods or had to move out of industrial areas because cancer was epidemic in that area, there were increases in birth defects, etc.

I used to roll my eyes at the "peanut allergy" crowd until I started experiences digestive issues. The colonoscopy and endoscopy yielded nothing. I started reading food labels as well as becoming well acquainted with the proprietor of my local natural food store and have learned quite a bit at how these big companies manipulated the food supply. High Fructose Corn syrup has one of the biggest lobbies out there and it very often in the top 5 list of ingredients for food, yet HFC causes many problems for many people. Refined sugar is one of the worst substances we can put in our bodies, yet it is everywhere. I have since determined that red meat and corn oil are the root cause of my digestive issues and I have eliminated them from my diet. Ever since I switched to organaic foods and food like free range chicken I've noticed two things, 1) I eat less, and 2) the taste of the food is much better. Organic milk, unlike processed milk, has an almost creamy taste and has a longer shelf life than processed milk.

Those are but a few examples.
 
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