London Calling? huh?

[BrotherBenny]

There's been a theory floating for years the it is called the third world war and not WWIII on the various series because the nuclear war took place only in the third world. Spock stated that 37 million died, that doesn't sound like a war that involve the the west with our giant populaton centers and large numbers of warheads. If it was between Iran and Saudi or between two african nations with a exchange of a small number of bombs, you might see "only" 37 million dead.

Spock was wrong or talking about a different war. Riker established in First Contact that six hundred million died during/after WWIII.

 

[Kegg]

Chief O'Brien comes from Dublin, which in the 24th century is a much cleaner and greatly refurbished city. The suburbs stretch out into the surrounding counties.

Where is this said?

As another Dubliner, fairly sure it isn't. The only time Dublin is mentioned when O'Brien mentions his parents live there in "Homefront", which suggests the city is fine in the Star Trek future.

Well, maybe it was annihilated and then rebuilt. Or whatever.

 

[C.E. Evans]

There's been a theory floating for years the it is called the third world war and not WWIII on the various series because the nuclear war took place only in the third world. Spock stated that 37 million died, that doesn't sound like a war that involve the the west with our giant populaton centers and large numbers of warheads. If it was between Iran and Saudi or between two african nations with a exchange of a small number of bombs, you might see "only" 37 million dead.

Spock was wrong or talking about a different war. Riker established in First Contact that six hundred million died during/after WWIII.

It's possible that both Spock and Riker are correct. Riker's estimate could be based on additional information about World War III that Spock didn't have at the time (like the later inclusion of more than 560 million more who perished during the Post-atomic Nightmare).

 

[Alpha_Geek]

Spock was wrong or talking about a different war. Riker established in First Contact that six hundred million died during/after WWIII.

Spock...wrong? Repent, brother!

 

[barnaclelapse]

The STAR TREK future, either in the new movie, or the old Roddenberry-Berman universe, is kind of sketchy on details as to what happened to Earth between our time and TREK's time.

Oh..something happened. Q's trial points that out, and Sisko's travel to that crappy city didn't look to great either...

So, what do you think happened to YOUR neck of the world, be it London or heck, San Diego?

I think San Diego, my city, eventually became a home for all the comic-book/scifi geeks out there. The big war happened during comicon, stranding thousands of scifi nerds in near San Diego State, a haven for sexy babes. These nerds and babes hooked up and, well....I don't about the rest of the world, but I liked it!!!

Rob

I think Savannah became a giant brothel for about fifty or so years.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The STAR TREK future, either in the new movie, or the old Roddenberry-Berman universe, is kind of sketchy on details as to what happened to Earth between our time and TREK's time.

Oh..something happened. Q's trial points that out, and Sisko's travel to that crappy city didn't look to great either...

So, what do you think happened to YOUR neck of the world, be it London or heck, San Diego?

I think San Diego, my city, eventually became a home for all the comic-book/scifi geeks out there. The big war happened during comicon, stranding thousands of scifi nerds in near San Diego State, a haven for sexy babes. These nerds and babes hooked up and, well....I don't about the rest of the world, but I liked it!!!

Rob

I think Savannah became a giant brothel for about fifty or so years.

How much is real estate there???

Rob

 

[Nerys Myk]

There's been a theory floating for years the it is called the third world war and not WWIII on the various series because the nuclear war took place only in the third world. Spock stated that 37 million died, that doesn't sound like a war that involve the the west with our giant populaton centers and large numbers of warheads. If it was between Iran and Saudi or between two african nations with a exchange of a small number of bombs, you might see "only" 37 million dead.

Spock was wrong or talking about a different war. Riker established in First Contact that six hundred million died during/after WWIII.

It's possible that both Spock and Riker are correct. Riker's estimate could be based on additional information about World War III that Spock didn't have at the time (like the later inclusion of more than 560 million more who perished during the Post-atomic Nightmare).

Or someone edited the Wiki page.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

It was world war, so I imagine it would involve most of the world that has nuclear weapons?

I can see New York, London, Beijing, Moscow, Teheran and Tel Aviv? all wiped out, plus other big cities in Russia and US.

USS Sarajevo was mentioned, so I guess we're still around. It's unlikely that we'd be targeted in a nuclear exchange.

 

[Vonstadt]

I would image NYC was hit during the war and the area later reclaimed and rebuilt so by the 22nd century that is why Tucker remembers NYC as being a much different city in 1944 than he remembers in the 22nd century.

Would stand to reason, a little terraforming and then repopulation of Manhatten and its surrounding areas.

Vons

 

[RobertScorpio]

I would image NYC was hit during the war and the area later reclaimed and rebuilt so by the 22nd century that is why Tucker remembers NYC as being a much different city in 1944 than he remembers in the 22nd century.

Would stand to reason, a little terraforming and then repopulation of Manhatten and its surrounding areas.

Vons

I wonder if TREKXI's sequels will ever venture into the area of speculating about what happened to Earth in the so called future. Roddenberry did it for Space Seed and,well, he guessed wrong. And so the later Trek's tried to rational his guesses by outright changing dates...

I think the new TREK movies should avoid any date dropping in this matter...

Rob

 

[C.E. Evans]

Spock was wrong or talking about a different war. Riker established in First Contact that six hundred million died during/after WWIII.

It's possible that both Spock and Riker are correct. Riker's estimate could be based on additional information about World War III that Spock didn't have at the time (like the later inclusion of more than 560 million more who perished during the Post-atomic Nightmare).

Or someone edited the Wiki page.

That's what happens when you let know-it-all kids aboard starships--they start messing around with the Federation database...

 

[caisson2delta]

I don't recall any mention of S. Florida. Would the part of Florida, south of the Xindi canal, be considered an island in the aftermath, or would humans eventually back fill the whole thing?

 

[Myasishchev]

It's possible that both Spock and Riker are correct. Riker's estimate could be based on additional information about World War III that Spock didn't have at the time (like the later inclusion of more than 560 million more who perished during the Post-atomic Nightmare).

Certainly possible--the gulf between the min and max estimates on how many people died in World War II is quite large, and record keeping might be much less prioritized after a nuclear exchange. Also, differences in categorization, even if the figures might not in dispute, could produce massive differences. I could tell you ~20 million died in WW2, or ~70 million did, and both would be acceptable statements--depending on how I defined my terms.

37 million in the initial exchange of our putative World War III is a plausible number, particularly if in the Trek-21stC ballistic missile defense was better (hell, they have genetically engineered super-people, why not a little SDI? ). 600 million could be the figure only when you include the losses from the predicted collapse of the global economy and many nation-states.

Additionally, if we wanted to consolidate World War III and the Eugenics War, maybe Spock's figure (learned from 23d century Earth history texts) refers to a death toll of 37 million humans, but by the enlightened 24th the 540 million Augments are counted as well.

 

[RobertScorpio]

It's possible that both Spock and Riker are correct. Riker's estimate could be based on additional information about World War III that Spock didn't have at the time (like the later inclusion of more than 560 million more who perished during the Post-atomic Nightmare).

Certainly possible--the gulf between the min and max estimates on how many people died in World War II is quite large, and record keeping might be much less prioritized after a nuclear exchange. Also, differences in categorization, even if the figures might not in dispute, could produce massive differences. I could tell you ~20 million died in WW2, or ~70 million did, and both would be acceptable statements--depending on how I defined my terms.

37 million in the initial exchange of our putative World War III is a plausible number, particularly if in the Trek-21stC ballistic missile defense was better (hell, they have genetically engineered super-people, why not a little SDI? ). 600 million could be the figure only when you include the losses from the predicted collapse of the global economy and many nation-states.

Additionally, if we wanted to consolidate World War III and the Eugenics War, maybe Spock's figure (learned from 23d century Earth history texts) refers to a death toll of 37 million humans, but by the enlightened 24th the 540 million Augments are counted as well.

I think in the new TREK MOVIE universe, no one died in WWIII. We had Obamacare by then...so how could anyone have died???

Rob

 

[Sci]

It's possible that both Spock and Riker are correct. Riker's estimate could be based on additional information about World War III that Spock didn't have at the time (like the later inclusion of more than 560 million more who perished during the Post-atomic Nightmare).

Certainly possible--the gulf between the min and max estimates on how many people died in World War II is quite large, and record keeping might be much less prioritized after a nuclear exchange. Also, differences in categorization, even if the figures might not in dispute, could produce massive differences. I could tell you ~20 million died in WW2, or ~70 million did, and both would be acceptable statements--depending on how I defined my terms.

37 million in the initial exchange of our putative World War III is a plausible number, particularly if in the Trek-21stC ballistic missile defense was better (hell, they have genetically engineered super-people, why not a little SDI? ). 600 million could be the figure only when you include the losses from the predicted collapse of the global economy and many nation-states.

Additionally, if we wanted to consolidate World War III and the Eugenics War, maybe Spock's figure (learned from 23d century Earth history texts) refers to a death toll of 37 million humans, but by the enlightened 24th the 540 million Augments are counted as well.

I think in the new TREK MOVIE universe, no one died in WWIII. We had Obamacare by then...so how could anyone have died???

Rob

What the fuck are you talking about?

1. No one's ever claimed that universal health care prevents 100% of all deaths, or that deaths won't happen if a war breaks out.

2. "Obamacare" is a misnomer. President Obama has made it clear he wants a reform of the health insurance system in America, but he's left it to Congress to develop the bill and its contents. He has not been pushing for universal or for single-payer health care along a Canadian or European model. He won't even commit to a public option; President Obama has only advocated a modification of the current system, not a new system.

3. The world of ST09 only begins to differ from the Prime Trekverse in 2233. Everything before then -- including World War III -- happens the exact same way.

4. Feel like writing any more complete son sequiturs in the name of insulting the President for no particular reason?

 

[RobertScorpio]

Certainly possible--the gulf between the min and max estimates on how many people died in World War II is quite large, and record keeping might be much less prioritized after a nuclear exchange. Also, differences in categorization, even if the figures might not in dispute, could produce massive differences. I could tell you ~20 million died in WW2, or ~70 million did, and both would be acceptable statements--depending on how I defined my terms.

37 million in the initial exchange of our putative World War III is a plausible number, particularly if in the Trek-21stC ballistic missile defense was better (hell, they have genetically engineered super-people, why not a little SDI? ). 600 million could be the figure only when you include the losses from the predicted collapse of the global economy and many nation-states.

Additionally, if we wanted to consolidate World War III and the Eugenics War, maybe Spock's figure (learned from 23d century Earth history texts) refers to a death toll of 37 million humans, but by the enlightened 24th the 540 million Augments are counted as well.

I think in the new TREK MOVIE universe, no one died in WWIII. We had Obamacare by then...so how could anyone have died???

Rob

What the fuck are you talking about?

1. No one's ever claimed that universal health care prevents 100% of all deaths, or that deaths won't happen if a war breaks out.

2. "Obamacare" is a misnomer. President Obama has made it clear he wants a reform of the health insurance system in America, but he's left it to Congress to develop the bill and its contents. He has not been pushing for universal or for single-payer health care along a Canadian or European model. He won't even commit to a public option; President Obama has only advocated a modification of the current system, not a new system.

3. The world of ST09 only begins to differ from the Prime Trekverse in 2233. Everything before then -- including World War III -- happens the exact same way.

4. Feel like writing any more complete son sequiturs in the name of insulting the President for no particular reason?

Nope...just having fun. Which IS what this board is all about. I actually support Obama, and I still think it was funny. You need to lighten up and watch an episode of Bugs Bunny or something. Watch that blood pressure!

Rob

 

[USS Kongo]

I would image NYC was hit during the war and the area later reclaimed and rebuilt so by the 22nd century that is why Tucker remembers NYC as being a much different city in 1944 than he remembers in the 22nd century.

Would stand to reason, a little terraforming and then repopulation of Manhatten and its surrounding areas.

Vons

New York City got wasted in the Trekverse? That sucks....

Sean

 

[Cyke101]

In the 24th Century, Chicago loses for the 29th time when Stratos is chosen to host the Olympics.

 

[Count Zero]

I'd like to think we stayed out of trouble for once but I suspect Berlin got reduced to a nuclear wasteland in WWIII.

Not necessarily. Apparently in 2155 Berlin is the home of the Vulcan consulate (as per Terra Prime). Kind of cool, if you think about it. Although I guess the city will still be a giant construction site by then.

Cool. I missed that bit in Terra Prime. Even more reason to cheer on Archer against the Terra Prime guys. I'd rather not have a gigantic beam of destruction destroy huge parts of the city again.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

San Francisco is the center of the universe! The downside of course would be constant alien attacks by Romulans, Breen and angry whale rights activists.

And something pretty dramatic happened between now and the 23rd C. Starfleet Academy (the Presidio) no longer has the large mature cypress and pine trees it does now, it's like something went thru there with a bulldozer. And what the frak are the downtown skyscrapers doing on Pacific Heights (which also seems to have been flattened)?

Either the city was levelled in WWIII or that was one hell of a quake.

Also, we somehow managed to kidnap the Monterey Bay Aquarium and move it to Marin County.