Nicholas Meyer's Autobiography

[Grant]

Other things I wanted to know about from the editing of TWOK that WERE NOT mentioned.......

Sulu's captaincy scene---a long time contraversy
Saavik's heritage----whose idea to include and whose idea to cut it out
The Baby------whose idea and whose to cut it out
The 'eden cave' scenes that Butrick & Alley both wished had been kept in

etc.

If Meyer had perhaps re-read a copy of the script----he might have refreshed his memory on these cuts and commented on why they got cut.

He does mention AGAIN the Peter Preston cut---which he commented on already in two DVD commentaries.

Same thing with the cuts from TUC---he mentions that he and Nimoy had differences about the cut---but not what the differences were.


So for me, I felt I didn't get the info I was looking for, but hey I just borrowed it fromthe library---so it didn't cost me.

 

[Harvey]

So why all the ire, then? Sorry Meyer didn't consult you on what you wanted to read about, but it's his book.

 

[Grant]

Ire ???


I simply said it didn't contain what I was interested in reading about & that he got one of the few stories he does tell about the editing of TWOK ass-backwards.

Another banal interjection by someone trying to put words in other folks mouths.

I like Meyer, i like his directing, I like his script-writing and I liked his DVD commentaries.

If he hadn't been involved with trek he wouldn't have the cache needed to warrant an autobiography and he didn't give that much more info on the cuts of these movies for me to give it a thumbs up.

I didn't say other folks wouldn't enjoy it.

 

[Sci]

Ire ???

I simply said it didn't contain what I was interested in reading about & that he got one of the few stories he does tell about the editing of TWOK ass-backwards.

Your writing style -- including using all caps at several points -- seems to imply extreme anger and emotion.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Huh... I wonder if this shot had to be re-shot twice...

I know from my interview with Paul Winfield that Meyer often deviated from the scripted page - and tried different takes of many shots.

He tried suggesting flirtation between Saavik and Kirk (which was used in the ABC TV version), stronger flirtations between Saavik and David - Saavik "lets her hair down" in the Genesis Cave (in the ShoWest presentation reel, and watches David intently) and a black stuntman was even painted black for an impromptu (unscripted) Terrell fall when the Khan baby appears at the cargo bay window.

I would think that several versions of the lines about David's heritage were tried, not just as scripted, and as relooped/retaken.

Another banal interjection

Well, pardon us. I'm sure the other posters didn't intend being banal. They were trying to discuss a point with you.

 

[Grant]

^^^

Yeah, you're right they don't intend to be banal.

But saying someone's post is filled with 'ire' because he was using caps to make some points, is silly.
In my posts I constantly said 'in my opinion' and I stated multiple times that the book simply didn't cover the subjects I wanted covered.

I think stating the obvious---"It's his book" is just a cheap jab.

I know that you, like me, have been following the history of TWOK since before it was released and I'd hoped to find some new nuggets.---I didn't.

He retold all the same stories from the commentary.....
Montalban wanted/needed direction
Shatner was better after more takes
His displeasure over the Genesis cave matte/FX
He lost the battle over Preston's lineage, etc.

Perhaps nearly ten of the same stories from the audio commentary and not too many new ones.

I really do think he could have grabed a copy of the script and perhaps even done a bit of research about other things the fans have wanted to know about the shooting/editing of TWOK and answered those questions for fans of his movie/script.

I mean how many times has the subject of Saavik's heritage been mentioned here? Sulu's captaincy (and Shatner's supposed sabotaging of it), the 'super-baby', the first Kirk/David fight, the 'eden cave' scene where they setup a possible future Saavik/David relationship....
He touches on none of those. Am I the only one who wanted to know more about those things?

Oops, I don't want to tell him how to write & research his book.

But on the other hand I have my opinion and i shared it, thinking maybe some folks would like to know if he covered that stuff---i hope that's okay.

 

[Harvey]

Sorry, but your disjointed writing style continues to produce one tone while you say you're writing with another. Separating nearly every sentence, the utilization of so many capitalized sections, jerky punctuation, bolding sections, and insults towards other posters ("banal interjection") very much suggest hostility.

Some of the errors in the book seem unforgiveable. Misquoting the number of episodes of Star Trek, for example. But that's not Meyer's fault. His editor should have caught that one.

You complain that Meyer didn't do research into what fans want to know, but why mince words? It's obvious you're complaining that he didn't research what you wanted to know. Take some critical distance of yourself. You're so familiar with the material, having listened to all of Meyer's commentaries, and gone even further, that you need to scale back your expectations a bit. This is a book intended to sell to a lot of people, not to appeal to a niche audience.

The funny thing is, I'm almost certain to have the same reaction as you when I find a copy of the book, having listened to so many Meyer commentaries and read countless interviews with him and others involved in the production. But I hope when I do, I won't be so hostile about the whole affair.

Anyway, I've said my piece. Your extensive knowledge of the film is very much valued here, Grant, and I don't want to express otherwise. I'm out.

 

[Maurice]

Anyway, I've said my peace.

Sorry, but that's piece, as in "a piece of my mind".

—Idioms
29. give someone a piece of one's mind.
30. go to pieces,

a. to break into fragments.
b. to lose control of oneself; become emotionally or physically upset: When he flunked out of medical school he went to pieces.
​

Peace makes no sense. It would be like saying "I've said my non-warring-status" or "I've said my tranquility."

 

[Bones2]

"I've said my tranquility" sounds pretty good. I might start using that.

 

[Harvey]

Anyway, I've said my peace.

Sorry, but that's piece, as in "a piece of my mind".

—Idioms
29. give someone a piece of one's mind.
30. go to pieces,

a. to break into fragments.
b. to lose control of oneself; become emotionally or physically upset: When he flunked out of medical school he went to pieces.
​

Peace makes no sense. It would be like saying "I've said my non-warring-status" or "I've said my tranquility."

Oh, bugger.

I make that mistake all the time, I think. Thanks for the correction.

EDIT: I mean, um, what mistake?

If only that edited by tag didn't appear, I'd appear to be literate!

 

[Therin of Andor]

He retold all the same stories from the commentary.....
Montalban wanted/needed direction
Shatner was better after more takes
His displeasure over the Genesis cave matte/FX
He lost the battle over Preston's lineage, etc.

Perhaps nearly ten of the same stories from the audio commentary and not too many new ones.

Yeah, he should have clearly told his readers that if they wanted to hear certain stories they should go out and rent a DVD featuring his commentary.

As many fans say on this board, many people never listen to commentaries. Books are written for people who buy books. DVD commentaries are added to DVDs to attract fans who like commentaries (and may already own versions without commentaries). The overlap may not be as large as you think.

You seem to want Meyer to put his stamp of authenticity on a few stories that weren't covered by the DVD, but I'm sure if you go back through old "Starlog" interviews you'll find answers to all these burning questions. People are always saying they want "the true story" of why Sulu's promotion scene isn't in ST II. I've read Takei's version, heard Takei's hilarious convention version, read Shatner's version, read Bennet's version, heard Susan Sackett and Richard Arnold's versions. Do I really need to read Nick Meyer's version too? Or was it such a minor blip in his memory that he's forgotten it. And how do we know which version is the real version anyway?

If Meyer left out certain stories it could simply be that they weren't terribly compelling stories. Biographies usually leave out the boring bits. Does Meyer really want to say in print that he refused to consider bringing in Robin Curtis to play Saavik in ST VI after Kirstie Alley turned him down? Reading between the lines: he didn't like RC's performance in ST III and IV, I guess.

I mean, I've read Curtis's plaintive version, of how she heard - several weeks after the fact - that she wasn't even considered for ST VI, and Cattrell's version, where she talks about not wanting to be the third actress to play a certain role in the fifth sequel of a movie - but sometimes we are better off filling in the blanks and not crushing any more feelings.

 

[Grant]

Oh, some people who might read the book might not have listened to the commentaries?

Wow, I never considered that!!

For the fifth and last time I simply said the book didn't add too much to my knowledge of the making of and editing process of TWOK and I wish it had because i like his style of storytelling.

Yeah, i've heard Takei's version of why the scene was cut/ruined and perhaps folks have heard Shatner's version----I had hoped Meyer's version would be an unbiased version that i might have a tendency to give credibiltiy too---and i was simply dis-appointed with the book's info in that area.

Too bad some follks can't accept that i have an opionion that doesn't agree with theirs.

 

[trevanian]

I gotta side with Grant on this, the book sounds more like a synopsis than a biography ... sort of like those skinny novelizations that basically put 'he saids' after the script dialog and do nothing to plus up the storytelling (antithesis of McIntyre novelizations.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Oh, some people who might read the book might not have listened to the commentaries?

Wow, I never considered that!!

Glad to be of service.

Too bad some follks can't accept that i have an opionion that doesn't agree with theirs.

A regular statement in your threads. You didn't "simply" say it, though.

the book sounds more like a synopsis than a biography ... sort of like those skinny novelizations that basically put 'he saids' after the script dialog...

No, it's not.

 

[Grant]

You're right I didn't 'simply' say it many times----I 'explicitly' stated it multiple times you just pretended not to see it.


Besides saying that he got the one story backwards---I said IMO it wasn't a whole lot of new info for someone like me that followed the movie for almost 30 years.

If someone HAS listened to the various commentaries and read interviews and making of books---there just isn't that much new at all in the book about TWOK.

Oh yeah, the print is pretty darn big with fairly large spacing---so no, it's not a huge amount of writing for a book of its size and page count.

 

[Therin of Andor]

You're right I didn't 'simply' say it many times----I 'explicitly' stated it multiple times you just pretended not to see it.

What have I pretended not to see?

That a director who makes a DVD commentary and then writes a memoir can't ever put those DVD anecdotes into print but must dredge up know ones?

Meyer has the right to tell whatever ST stories he thought were worth telling. Maybe his editor slashed out numerous boring anecdotes - and they happened to be the more obscure ones you wanted to read?

 

[Grant]

It's just plain sad that you can't accept that i can have the opinion that what meyer wrote didn't add much at all to what I already knew.

You keep restating over & over again that he can write whatever he wants and that what matters to me maybe didn't matter to Meyer or his editor or blah, blah, blah.

Everybody here knows meyer has the right to put what he thinks is important and interesting is his own biography. Restating the obvious over and over is just innane.

My first post said i was disappointed and that he got a particular story backwards and that he didn't mention certain scenes that folks in this forum have been talking about for years.

It is possible that some folks might have wanted to know if he addressed the sulu captaincy controversy or why he cut the Romulan heritage scene out.
I just stated for the record he didn't.

It's completely assinine to keep restating that 'maybe he didn't think it was interesting' or whatever else.

Guess what? People here ARE interested and the subjects of the cut scenes come up again over and over around here (as you well know)

i don't care why he didn't---I just was disappointed and wanted to let people know what he DIDN'T cover.

Now you can once again resume your attack on my posts and explain that Meyer can do what he wants----as if anybody already doesn't know that.

Oh and what you pretended not to see is that I stated that my disappointment was just my opinion (many times I said that) and that I wasn't attacking the book or Meyer in any way. If you're newcomer or haven't heard the commentaries---there IS some good info.

 

[Maurice]

I gotta side with Grant on this, the book sounds more like a synopsis than a biography ... sort of like those skinny novelizations that basically put 'he saids' after the script dialog and do nothing to plus up the storytelling (antithesis of McIntyre novelizations.)

The point of the book is about Meyer's career, not detailing who said what on what shoot. He candidly admits where he thinks he screwed up. It's just that he's not talking about the behind-the-scenes-dirt most of us want to read. Frankly, I think the best chapter in the book is the one about the making of The Day After.

 

[trevanian]

Frankly, I think the best chapter in the book is the one about the making of The Day After.

Is it of the 'shoot 8 pages a day or get fired' ilk, or him finding out he can't shoot the horizon because it means another matte shot they can't afford?

 

[Maurice]

Frankly, I think the best chapter in the book is the one about the making of The Day After.

Is it of the 'shoot 8 pages a day or get fired' ilk, or him finding out he can't shoot the horizon because it means another matte shot they can't afford?

Neither. It's a lot about the politics of the production.