You are wrong. But whatever.
Can 'Omega Glory' ever be fully restored?
- Thread starter Mr. Laser Beam
- Start date
I seem to remember TOS episodes where they would say something like "200 years ago" or "2 centuries ago" in reference to the 20th or 21st century. I can't think of anything specific; maybe Space Seed? Does anyone know?
Its been anywhere from 200 (Space Seed) to 600 (Squire of Gothos) Though GR often sites the 23rd in his parts of the Making of Star Trek.
I'm going with wormhole/space warp/rift to an alternate universe for Miri World, Omega Earth and maybe Terra Roma.
I've always wondered how many generations it would have taken the Kohms, who had to once have been the equivalent of 20th Century Asia, to degenerate sufficiently for Wu to exclaim to Capt. Tracy "They carry fireboxes!" Not phasers, lasers, rayguns or even light-weapons -- fireboxes.
One man's 'silly' is another man's 'fun'. In the end this episode entertains me for the entire fifty-one minutes. Why it's one of my favorites. Plus, it's usually these types of episodes that bring up great discussions like this one.
Thanks for the references.
So why was there "some debate as to exactly how far in the future TOS took place, until TNG put all that to rest"? Was it solely due to the Squire of Gothos episode?
In that episode, Trelane had been viewing earth as it was 900 years ago and made references to people from the 1800s (e.g., Napoleon Bonaparte), which would place that episode in the 2700s. I wonder if that was just carelessness on the part of the writer, or if it was really intended at the time to place Star Trek in the 28th century.
^TOS was deliberately vague about when it took place. Roddenberry didn't want to tie it down to a specific century, since he knew that real progress comes at an unpredictable rate. The whole reason stardates were invented was because they convey no meaningful chronological information of any kind. The "200 years" reference in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" was a joke, the one in "Space Seed" a rough estimate. "Squire of Gothos" made a different estimate, and since the time frame was deliberately not locked down, no effort was made at consistency.
Everyone seems to have missed the bit where Alchemist inidcated that he has the cut footage, minus the soundtrack.
^ You're right.
If you have footage, can we see it?
Pretty please?
It was filmed...but I don't have the audio to accompany it...
If you have footage, can we see it?
Pretty please?
For those interested, there was another lengthy deleted scene from the original script showing an early confrontation between Kirk and Tracy. It runs about five script pages, and was probably filmed but cut for running time. If anyone is interested, I could post those pages.
Naw, no one could care less...
OF COURSE WE'RE INTERESTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's to bad the Roman's on 892-IV weren't outfitted with vulcan/romulan make-up, given the early belief that romulans were a semi-roman culture, the story could of been that the inhabitants were a lost or abandon romulan colony. Maybe one that had lost a certain amount of it's technology. They could of been on the planet only several centuries and we wouldn't need earth parallels or time warps.
If the Yang's have been in a slow decline for centuries, it possible that the flag and document we saw in the episode were only a few centuries old. Not thousands.
The universal translator may have come into play. Translating the term communist from a alien language in to english. As a basic political concept this should of been within it abilities, the landing party at first keep hearing 'comm' because the translator was having problems with the word at first and it was only near the end of the episode that it gave Kirk an accurate translation of the term. Yang was a different story, Yang was the full native word for themselves and only after the translator supplies Kirk with communist that he came up with 'Yankee'.
Being able to read the constitution may have also been the work of the UT. An on again, off again idea I've been playing with is that the translator doesn't just turn speach into something you can hear and understand, but that it can also take what Kirk sees and translates that into a form (in his brain or eyes) that he can read and understand. Not all communication is in words.
I live in Seattle which has a fair size Korean population. I always though the charactor of Wu was Korean, the episode was only about twelve year after the end of korean war, North Korean was and is a communist nation. Do we know the ethnicity of the actor who protrayed Wu?
T'Girl
To be more exact, Trelane was currently located 900 ly away from Earth, which led the geologist Jaeger into jumping to this conclusion that the outdated information was gleaned from a lightspeed instrument. However, Trelane was located on a FTL-mobile planet... Rather completely negating the value of that argument in defining the dating of the episode.
Trelane seemed to agree with Jaeger's assessment, yes. Or then he was merely humoring his primitive little guest. We have to be critical of what parts of Trelane's charade we believe. Is he really an ignorant child (even in human terms), one who could make this sort of mistake? Or merely a childish individual who outsmarts all humans yet likes to engage in silly games that sometimes involve playing dumb? The "I'm dressed up for the wrong century" thing need not be taken as serious proof of Trelane's fallibility, IMHO.
Unless that's what they were designed to do. If an obsessed time traveler indeed set out to remake a primitive world into his or her idea of a USA-themed paradise, he'd make sure that his or her flag would withstand a few dozen millennia of wear and tear.
The question arises (just as in "A Piece of the Action") whether the planet contained more of those items than just the examples seen. The battle for control of Tracey's city seemed crucial for the control of the entire civilization on that planet, so we could assume it was the largest or perhaps only remaining center of habitation. A unique artifact could then well have been brought to the location by the Yangs. But by the same token, the Yangs wouldn't have had centers of habitation of their own - so the flag and the documents had to be nomad-proof. Otherwise, we're not talking about them crumbling in a matter of centuries, but of decades! They simply had to have some sort of special protection not found on genuine 18th century (or even 20th century) items.
Timo Saloniemi
Doesn't even take an obsessed time-traveler; time-traveler to be sure though.
Say sometime in the 90s someone launches a DY Series starship (Say an American businessman or part of a govt. project; even another superman) and sets out on a mission to escape the Eugenics War and colonize a new planet. Now said ship gets sucked into a wormhole/blackhole (ex: V'ger) and tossed back in time. They settle the first Earth type planet they find and build a new culture with their Earthly artifacts.
Say sometime in the 90s someone launches a DY Series starship (Say an American businessman or part of a govt. project; even another superman) and sets out on a mission to escape the Eugenics War and colonize a new planet. Now said ship gets sucked into a wormhole/blackhole (ex: V'ger) and tossed back in time. They settle the first Earth type planet they find and build a new culture with their Earthly artifacts.
Here are the deleted scenes from the "Omega Glory" script. The following scene starts immediately after Tracy tells the landing party that they will never be able to leave the planet.
INT. MEN'S HOUSE - ANGLE ON CHARCOAL BRAZIER - DAY
CAMERA THEN PULLS (OR CUTS) BACK TO REVEAL a pair of ELDERS, richly dressed and obviously men of some importance, sit there eating strips of food being broiled at table-center on the charcoal brazier. Also ESTABLISH the room as Tracy leads Kirk in, followed by Spock. It is a large interior, serving the Village men as a place for food and drink, plus recreation over some game tables peculiar to Omega. The VILLAGE MEN inside respectfully clear a path to a large and more prominent table. Seeing Tracy approaching, the Elders get hurriedly to their feet, move on, leaving the brazier table to them. Some attractive SERVING GIRLS put out fresh dishes and cups. During which . . .
TRACY: Quarters are being prepared for you. And a place for Dr. McCoy's equipment to be beamed down to him.
Kirk has turned toward one of the Serving Girls and she jumps back in terror, dropping her dish. Tracy motions her back in.
TRACY: They were afraid of me at first too. It's our white skin . . . Our similarity to the Yangs, the white savages.
CLOSER AT TABLE
As Tracy sits, something of the feudal lord in the way he ignores the highly respectful nods and greetings given him by the villagers. We can see Kirk and Spock have exchanged looks, interested at this extreme deference and the Exeter Captain's casual acceptance of it. Tracy accepts food from one of the girls:
TRACY (to Kirk; ignoring Spock): Barbecued wild game. Sort of a long-necked rabbit-antelope.
Tracy motions and the Girl spears a strip of meat from the fire, extends it to Kirk. Meanwhile the other girl has hurried in to supply crude pitchers of liquid, plus fresh strips of meat on the brazier.
SPOCK: You are treated with considerable deference by these villagers, Captain. Almost a 'leader' or a . . .
Again, Tracy ignores Spock, interrupting:
TRACY (to Kirk): These Kohm villagers asked for help, Jim. Whatever spirit they may have once had has been whipped out of them by the savages.
KIRK: The Kohm villages are all under attack?
TRACY (nods): This is one of the last. But before the Yangs began decimating them, they apparently had a considerably advanced civilization. There are ruins of large cities out there.
SPOCK (now to Kirk): Nomad tribes are sometimes able to destroy advanced civilizations, but not unarmed savages. (to Tracy) Are you quite certain, Captain, that . . .
EMPHASIZING TRACY
To his feet, angrily facing Spock and interrupting.
TRACY: I will not be questioned by a subordinate.
Spock remains completely unperturbed, eyeing Tracy curiously. Kirk speaks quietly, a little more formally now:
KIRK: Captain . . . I think you're forgetting that Mr. Spock is my First Officer.
Mr. Spock gets to his feet. Quietly and politely:
SPOCK: I see no purpose in causing anger to Captain Tracy. May I remove myself?
Kirk hesitates, then nods. Spock moves quickly outside. Kirk turns back to Tracy coldly.
KIRK: Let's clear something up right now. I never had a better 'First' than Spock . . . or a better friend.
TRACY: I've yet to meet a Vulcan capable of understanding friendship. He's certainly doing his best to sabotage ours.
CLOSER TWO SHOT
Tracy showing some bitterness.
TRACY: You know what's on his mind, too. Your 'friend's' computer mind adds up a few scanty observations and he's suddenly convinced I've violated the Prime Directive . . . that I'm interfering with this culture.
KIRK: Ron, a first officer's job is to be suspicious. (smiles) Saves his Captain from having to appear the villain.
TRACY: I'm a fellow star captain. Ask.
KIRK (beat; nods): Fair enough. The local militia recognized what our phasers are. Also, they seem to accept orders from you . . . (hesitates; then) I am not making an accusation. As you said . . . I'm asking.
EMPHASIZING TRACY
Studying Kirk, then:
TRACY: All right. As long as we're asking . . . suppose you were faced with incredibly vicious savages massing for a final attack that would wipe out the last trace of civilization on a whole planet. (indicates) And suppose you had enough phasers to stop it? Can you imagine the power of just five phasers in this culture?
KIRK (nods): Like introducing the atom bomb into the gunpowder era.
TRACY (leans in; intent) Jim . . . within 48 hours they'll slaughter every adult and child in this village . . .
KIRK: Every time man interferes with the natural evolution of another world, he destroys more than he saves.
TRACY (snaps): When they attack, Jim, we've no place left to go. We're finished too!
KIRK (beat, quietly): 'I solemnly pledge I will abide by these regulations, even in death.' (beat, shrugs) Unfortunately, that's the oath we both took.
TRACY (nods): And, you'd try to stop me.
KIRK: I wouldn't 'try', Ron. I'd stop you.
The foregoing was replaced in the aired episode by a brief log by Captain Kirk, in which he merely aired misgivings about Tracy having violated the Prime Directive.
INT. MEN'S HOUSE - ANGLE ON CHARCOAL BRAZIER - DAY
CAMERA THEN PULLS (OR CUTS) BACK TO REVEAL a pair of ELDERS, richly dressed and obviously men of some importance, sit there eating strips of food being broiled at table-center on the charcoal brazier. Also ESTABLISH the room as Tracy leads Kirk in, followed by Spock. It is a large interior, serving the Village men as a place for food and drink, plus recreation over some game tables peculiar to Omega. The VILLAGE MEN inside respectfully clear a path to a large and more prominent table. Seeing Tracy approaching, the Elders get hurriedly to their feet, move on, leaving the brazier table to them. Some attractive SERVING GIRLS put out fresh dishes and cups. During which . . .
TRACY: Quarters are being prepared for you. And a place for Dr. McCoy's equipment to be beamed down to him.
Kirk has turned toward one of the Serving Girls and she jumps back in terror, dropping her dish. Tracy motions her back in.
TRACY: They were afraid of me at first too. It's our white skin . . . Our similarity to the Yangs, the white savages.
CLOSER AT TABLE
As Tracy sits, something of the feudal lord in the way he ignores the highly respectful nods and greetings given him by the villagers. We can see Kirk and Spock have exchanged looks, interested at this extreme deference and the Exeter Captain's casual acceptance of it. Tracy accepts food from one of the girls:
TRACY (to Kirk; ignoring Spock): Barbecued wild game. Sort of a long-necked rabbit-antelope.
Tracy motions and the Girl spears a strip of meat from the fire, extends it to Kirk. Meanwhile the other girl has hurried in to supply crude pitchers of liquid, plus fresh strips of meat on the brazier.
SPOCK: You are treated with considerable deference by these villagers, Captain. Almost a 'leader' or a . . .
Again, Tracy ignores Spock, interrupting:
TRACY (to Kirk): These Kohm villagers asked for help, Jim. Whatever spirit they may have once had has been whipped out of them by the savages.
KIRK: The Kohm villages are all under attack?
TRACY (nods): This is one of the last. But before the Yangs began decimating them, they apparently had a considerably advanced civilization. There are ruins of large cities out there.
SPOCK (now to Kirk): Nomad tribes are sometimes able to destroy advanced civilizations, but not unarmed savages. (to Tracy) Are you quite certain, Captain, that . . .
EMPHASIZING TRACY
To his feet, angrily facing Spock and interrupting.
TRACY: I will not be questioned by a subordinate.
Spock remains completely unperturbed, eyeing Tracy curiously. Kirk speaks quietly, a little more formally now:
KIRK: Captain . . . I think you're forgetting that Mr. Spock is my First Officer.
Mr. Spock gets to his feet. Quietly and politely:
SPOCK: I see no purpose in causing anger to Captain Tracy. May I remove myself?
Kirk hesitates, then nods. Spock moves quickly outside. Kirk turns back to Tracy coldly.
KIRK: Let's clear something up right now. I never had a better 'First' than Spock . . . or a better friend.
TRACY: I've yet to meet a Vulcan capable of understanding friendship. He's certainly doing his best to sabotage ours.
CLOSER TWO SHOT
Tracy showing some bitterness.
TRACY: You know what's on his mind, too. Your 'friend's' computer mind adds up a few scanty observations and he's suddenly convinced I've violated the Prime Directive . . . that I'm interfering with this culture.
KIRK: Ron, a first officer's job is to be suspicious. (smiles) Saves his Captain from having to appear the villain.
TRACY: I'm a fellow star captain. Ask.
KIRK (beat; nods): Fair enough. The local militia recognized what our phasers are. Also, they seem to accept orders from you . . . (hesitates; then) I am not making an accusation. As you said . . . I'm asking.
EMPHASIZING TRACY
Studying Kirk, then:
TRACY: All right. As long as we're asking . . . suppose you were faced with incredibly vicious savages massing for a final attack that would wipe out the last trace of civilization on a whole planet. (indicates) And suppose you had enough phasers to stop it? Can you imagine the power of just five phasers in this culture?
KIRK (nods): Like introducing the atom bomb into the gunpowder era.
TRACY (leans in; intent) Jim . . . within 48 hours they'll slaughter every adult and child in this village . . .
KIRK: Every time man interferes with the natural evolution of another world, he destroys more than he saves.
TRACY (snaps): When they attack, Jim, we've no place left to go. We're finished too!
KIRK (beat, quietly): 'I solemnly pledge I will abide by these regulations, even in death.' (beat, shrugs) Unfortunately, that's the oath we both took.
TRACY (nods): And, you'd try to stop me.
KIRK: I wouldn't 'try', Ron. I'd stop you.
The foregoing was replaced in the aired episode by a brief log by Captain Kirk, in which he merely aired misgivings about Tracy having violated the Prime Directive.
Nope, that wasn't interesting at all.
No wait, it was damn facinating and extremly interesting!!!
I wish folks would post more pages of scenes that were cut for time.
As to the materail, can we be 100% sure that it WAS filmed?
It seems slight portions of the dialogue were mentioned in other scenes. I'm not saying it wasn't I'm just curious.
If it wasn't filmed it was really helpful they briefly restated some of it in other scenes to convey the general points.
But as usual IMO, the longer version always seems better than the cut version. (When it doesn't violate some other point as the colinization dialogue seems to.)
No wait, it was damn facinating and extremly interesting!!!
I wish folks would post more pages of scenes that were cut for time.
As to the materail, can we be 100% sure that it WAS filmed?
It seems slight portions of the dialogue were mentioned in other scenes. I'm not saying it wasn't I'm just curious.
If it wasn't filmed it was really helpful they briefly restated some of it in other scenes to convey the general points.
But as usual IMO, the longer version always seems better than the cut version. (When it doesn't violate some other point as the colinization dialogue seems to.)
If anyone should have or find such materal, regardless of it's condition, please put it on youtube and post a link
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