Supernatural 5x2 "God God, Y'All" discussion/spoilerish

[Dorian Thompson]

Episode 2 is tonight, good people. I thought I'd get the weekly thread started since I HAVE A SALES MEETING TONIGHT WITH THE ASSHOLE REP FROM VEGAS. I can't stand him anyway, and he insisted on having the meeting tonight at 7:30 instead of this afternoon. It'll last just long enough for me to miss the show, and my DVR is acting twitchy as usual. I'll probably have to watch it online, which I hate.

Looks like we're back to the emotional meat of the story tonight. Per usual, the SPACE channel promo out of Canada is soooo much better than the CW's non existent promo.

Castiel pissed off at the brothers

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm looking forward to tonights episode and I love the title, love that song (War! What is it good for!) Edwin Starr!

 

[mswood]

That is a much better preview (it usually is). Ellen better live is all U have to say. Sorry about your meeting.

Last week I was speculating about what could happen depending on the ratings for our show and the rest of the line up. Well we have had every show (except Smallville open), and my god we don't havet worry about Supernatural just yet.

Melrose Place is sinking dramatically in the ratings. I honestly think it will be moved before Sweeps.

Then we have Beautiful Life, and this is officially the worst performing show to start up the lineup that the CW has ever had.

I don't think it will stay on the air, I think it will either go t Fridays or be pulled completely.

So the question is where do you put Smallville. Do you move it back to Thursdays? Thus moving either VD or SN to another night or do you move it to Tuesdays?

 

[Thrall]

This is turning into a cross between Good Omens by Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett and Preacher by Garth Ennis. Except not funny. And I liked Gaimen's and Pratchett's version of War better. She was a hot redhed in a red dress who was so hot, no matter where she went, all the guys would start fighting over her and it would just escalate until whole countries were involved. "Oops. I did it again. Oh you guys. Always fighting over me. Gosh.". This version of war was boring and had no pizazz. So was like the ring the source of his power or was it just a focus? Why waste his time on some dinky little town? Did they kill him or not? Does that mean Death is like the head Reaper or one of them or what?

And they gave the twist away as soon as Jo spoke. The audience was able to figure it out as soon as that was said. Your characters and your audience aren't retards. It shouldn't take 15 more minutes for the characters to figure it out just because you need episode filler.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I still watch SN out of momentum and loyalty but I have to say the last two episodes have just not done all that much for me.

This season is off to a slow start. These first two hours have felt less like cohesive episodes and more like a series of varying in quality scenes ranging from the absolute mundane to the neutral scenes that fill up space mixed with the occasional interesting bit that on its own isn't great or necessarily entertaining here but you know they'll somehow come into play down the road and perhaps take on a new dimension giving these earlier scenes a new perspective.

In a way I hate these sorts of episodes that are purely average--they aren't awful enough to totally disengage your interest and make you change the channel but they can't quite meet the threshold where you are fully engaged in what is going on.

I do appreciate the ideas that are here but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. The writers are dealing with some pretty epic material--I don't think you can really top The Apocalypse or a search for God. My only fear is that, as in the past, due to the constraints and limited budget of the show a lot of it won't be fully realized and the kinds of twists/turns and radical shake-ups you'd expect won't happen.

As far as tonite's episode, it was disappointing that the first few minutes centering around Castiel's revelations wasn't a prelude of things to come but an isolated stand out part of the episode. Interesting that such a simple low key revelatory scene manages to outshine the big action sequences that come later on.

It was alright that they brought Ellen, Jo and Rufus back probably because they were a little more than extras but at the end of the day given what was done with them they weren't much more than extra action figures in the end so it didn't do all that much for me. We didn't even get a good-bye or epilogue involving them. Granted I was never much interested or invested in any of the three but still some sort of coda would have been nice.

The action was okay but pretty straightforward and lacked any sense of urgency and I felt no jeopardy for the characters involved which made the bulk of the episode centering around the standoff between the two sides a little ho hum. Same thing regarding Bobby's loss of his legs. I can't say it is a riveting character struggle and it probably isn't meant to be that--more like a plot point. I did enjoy the re-introduction of music into the show where it had been absent for so many seasons.

I'm hoping that the separation of the guys lasts more than an episode and we are going to get more of an arc. I'd give this a C+.

I'm actually enjoying Melrose Place 2.0 a lot more in its first two episodes than SN--and that isn't faint praise for MP it's actually quite good. Also last season's "Lazarus Rising" was stronger than either of these episodes.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I'm sorry to hear that guys. I'll catch it online and give my opinion.

 

[mswood]

Well the "twist" of the story wasn't much of a twist, but that is never the point (well almost never) with this show. The focus of the show (at least how the writers see it) is always character over plot. They don't have the money to tell the stories how they would like to, so its always been lets focus on the characters.

The show has done a couple of episode's where it's them in a town fighting for survival and out of those this was clearly superior, not only in character bit in production.

Bit War certainly could have been handled better. Knowing a show has a finite number of episodes and that they have to seed character arcs, and plot points throughout the episodes, it can make an episode feel disjointed.

But the show is doing things it's never been willing to do before. 1st it split the leads up (and yes it will be more then one episode, how much more I don't know), they have disabled a cast member (for a least a significant part of the season).

It was actually smart to use established characters, in an already crowded episode using established characters allows you to give a damn about if someone will live or die (and yes with those three characters any of them could have died, I actually am surprised they didn't kill some of them).

As for the character beats, they all felt right to me. Though do we always have to be outside near the car fir a heart to heart (yeah I understand its their version of being home, but still).

Liked Castiel being upset,and showing anger at his choice. That was nice. His priorities certainly aren't that of Dean and Sam's. Just heavens and will only side with them as long as he feels it's god's will. I like that, and I hope Dean was actually listening.

Loved the atmosphere of the town. Compare it to Croatoan where the town is invected with demonic virus and everyone out killing everyone else, and yet it was peaceful and calm, no streets in chaos, ect.

 

[mswood]

Oh it's a B- in my book, but at least I find it better then their previous attempts at this type of story.

See Magnificent Seven (way to screw up the 7 deadly sins, War was handled slightly better), then on episodes where they are out in a town it's easily better then Croatoan and Hell Breaks Loose I.

Bit to where near as good as the Siege episodes of Jus In Bello.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Oh, startrekwatcher, I just caught the episode. I can't agree with you. I thought it was pretty good. Not quite as good as Jus in Bello (agree with mswood there) but pretty good. The character moments were outstanding one and all. Ultimately that's why I watch this show. It's what sets SPN apart from other genre fare. They've got such an unjustly low budget that it's remarkable what they can do. Character development is their forté.

I didn't figure out the twist right away, so I guess I'm a retard. I thought something was up when the kids Sam killed didn't "flame out" so to speak when stabbed with the knife. I really liked Titus Welliver as War, pulling those strings and manipulating. War isn't all catastrophic explosions. There's collateral damage. This town was collateral damage. Since I was unfortunately spoiled about the "end game" to be revealed in episode 4--I won't reveal it--all I can say is that it makes sense that War isn't going whole hog on an epic scale just yet. Trust me on that, Thrall.

Castiel is maintaining his "otherness." He isn't suddenly BFF with Dean and jonesing to be human a la Data from Star Trek. That character beat rings true; I agree with mswood there. I really enjoyed seeing Ellen and Rufus again. Jo was under utilized. Bobby's anger is disturbing to see. He's not handling being helpless very well, is he? So.....did Bobby know just how special his little amulet present to Dean was all those Christmases ago? Seems like Dean's been on God's radar for awhile. So he never got possessed pre-tattoo because of this amulet?

Oh, boys. Dean giving Sam the impala and them being even further estranged hurts to see. I'm such a nerd.

 

[mswood]

Dorian to of the little moments I liked the best, were Dean not wanting to give Castiel his necklace, a offering the Impala to Sam. As much as he doesn't trust Sam (He really doesn't), and as much as he's pissed at Sam (And yeah he is pissed at Sam) he still cherish's Sam's gift to him. And when Dean readily agrees that it would be better if Sam was gone. What does he do, he offers them their home (because that is what that car is).

One thing I was surprised about is how often Dean called him Sammy. I really expected that name to be something not said for a really long time.

I do love them addressing and quickly Sam's addiction. I worried that after being detoxed that they might not pit it front and center. And I do appreciate that Sam is acknowledging he control aspect of it (he is John's Son after all), but more importantly he has lived so much of his life in fear of his destiny and the fear of not having any control over that.

 

[Thrall]

I didn't figure out the twist right away, so I guess I'm a retard.

Well...erm...ghm....er..... Tis but a figure of speech.

I thought something was up when the kids Sam killed didn't "flame out" so to speak when stabbed with the knife. I really liked Titus Welliver as War, pulling those strings and manipulating. War isn't all catastrophic explosions. There's collateral damage. This town was collateral damage. Since I was unfortunately spoiled about the "end game" to be revealed in episode 4--I won't reveal it--all I can say is that it makes sense that War isn't going whole hog on an epic scale just yet. Trust me on that, Thrall.

Ill take your word on that then. It's just, The Four Horsemen need to be larger-then-life and have a sense of dread and danger. I didn't get it from this guy. When a couple of mortals can easily overpower War, well he's kind of a wuss to begin with then. Read Good Omens. The War in that book is one of the highlights.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Hey, my threads are for honest discussion and opinions. You don't have to be a cheerleader to be welcome there. Some folks are looking for an epic scale war and action.....they won't be satisfied with Supernatural. I'm just saying, there's a bit of cleverness going on that you don't yet know. The foundation for it was laid two seasons ago. Everything was a clue all along. Heck, I even remember that season one episode "Skin" after Dean killed the shapeshifter who copied him. He ripped the amulet off his neck. Jensen's always worn it. It actually belongs to him. The writers incorporated it cleverly, IMO. They had to have had an inkling even back then, because it was obviously scripted for Dean to rip the amulet off the dead shapeshifter's neck.

I love that we had some more classic rock this episode.

 

[Aragorn]

Is there anything special about the car? Seeing as how I only have watched a handful of episodes, do they drive everywhere? If so, how do they get anywhere so fast?

Or does this go in the "shouldn't Dean and Sam be wanted serial killers" category?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Ummmm......yeah, the Impala has some significance. It's proper name is Metallicar, BTW. Yeah, they drive everywhere. Dean's afraid of flying, and they're both legally dead. Hard to get on a plane.

Aragorn, dude, the brothers were wanted serial killers. They had an FBI agent named Victor Henricksen chasing them. You missed it. Dean's been wanted by the police since "Skin," episode 6 season one. SPN knows how to do shapeshifters properly. They hide in the sewers to have a place to change clothes and shed their teeth in close up.

 

[mswood]

Is there anything special about the car? Seeing as how I only have watched a handful of episodes, do they drive everywhere? If so, how do they get anywhere so fast?

Or does this go in the "shouldn't Dean and Sam be wanted serial killers" category?

They do drive almost every where and most episode include the fact that it would take time to drive to locations.

As for criminal records, thus has come up as Dean from the 6th episode was a believed serial killer (who died). But was discovered to be alive and on the FBI's most wanted list (along with Sam). They eventually were declared dead, dying along with 25 others in a gas explosion that destroyed a police station. I think they have mentioned having to be careful to not leave evidence that they are actually alive. Things like wiping down for prints, of course you never see them wear gloves.

And my keyboard is whacked (my boyfriend cleaned the keys and put the i, and U and the a and s on the wrong place, so forgive the typing errors(of course my spelling always sucks so how could anyone tell.

 

[mswood]

Based on these two episodes I am wondering if one they budgeted more for atmosphere and music. Or if they are just going over budget early and going to have to do some lower budgeted episodes later.

 

[mswood]

On the car it's been in the family before either boy was born. When Mary Died, John moved them around a lot (to say the least) a week here, a moth there (that sort of life),so the car as held all their belongings and has been their one permanent place for their family. It's home.

 

[Aragorn]

Does the Bobby character exist only because Jeffrey Dean Morgan didn't want to commit to the show?

 

[Othello]

Oh man that episode just pissed me off last night. I despise the fact that Sam is taking all the blame here and Dean is acting like a self righteous jackass. Pisses me off to no end.

 

[The Evil Dead]

Despise? Pissed off to no end? Jesus, I am just not taking my TV shows seriously enough these days.

I enjoyed the episode, although I will have to do a bit of Googlin' cause I totally forget where Dean got that amulet from...Has he always had that, did he get that recently? I just don't remember. I should study Supernatural the way I study Lost.