New Animated Series

[Jeyl]

Man, I bet you want to CGI everything, past and future.

 

[Newski]

I would settle for a full-out CGI remake of the existing animated series.

I mean, however good the actual storylines of TAS are (and at times, they are good), the actual show itself is typical of early 70's cartoons: Cheap crap.

A CGI remake of TAS would even get to keep the existing voice tracks (and possibly sound effects), so no dialogue would have to be rerecorded. And it could be made to look more like TOS - we have the technology right now to make fully realistic CGI representations of people, although CGI-TAS might not want to be quite *that* realistic.

Really? I honestly don't think Trek works in the CG format.... If you want a remake with better animation, why not just touch up the character designs and re animate what they had? I mean, it was still pretty damn good.


CG is not a good medium for a television series. Good CG is expensive and time consuming. They aren't going to bother putting the effort into it. And even though I still think the product would be bad, you can make something much better using AnimeStudio, which is a hundred dollar Download. I've got a friend at school, where I study animation, who is doing somethng write now that I could picture "Trek" in the style of.


Actually, maybe I could get some people together for a fan production, once I'm done with my short film and my animation portfolio project....


I'm hardly a traditional animation purist, but I'm not a big fan of all the attempts to create "Realistic" people on CG. It's never worked.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Anthony Sabre pointed out this great CGI cinematic trailer done for the new game.

Star Wars: The Old Republic
video length: 3:52
This is the type of quality animation that would look amazing in the Star Trek universe!

Nothing short of awesome. That is what Star Trek could look like animated, and it would rock.

What I also had in mind when it came to an animated Star Trek was this fan production: Star Trek: Aurora

Borjis mentioned the idea of using the original digital recordings of Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley for the dialogue from the unfinished Secret of Vulcan Fury for a new CGI animation series.
The issue is how many episodes could they do as dialogue was written only for the game. Could this be a 3 episode springboard for an animated series though with a different crew on a different starship?

Yes, except they'd have to find a new voice actor to play De Forest Kelly's part if they were going to go beyond just Secret of Vulcan Fury.

I would settle for a full-out CGI remake of the existing animated series.

I mean, however good the actual storylines of TAS are (and at times, they are good), the actual show itself is typical of early 70's cartoons: Cheap crap.

A CGI remake of TAS would even get to keep the existing voice tracks (and possibly sound effects), so no dialogue would have to be rerecorded. And it could be made to look more like TOS - we have the technology right now to make fully realistic CGI representations of people, although CGI-TAS might not want to be quite *that* realistic.

Really? I honestly don't think Trek works in the CG format.... If you want a remake with better animation, why not just touch up the character designs and re animate what they had? I mean, it was still pretty damn good.


CG is not a good medium for a television series. Good CG is expensive and time consuming. They aren't going to bother putting the effort into it. And even though I still think the product would be bad, you can make something much better using AnimeStudio, which is a hundred dollar Download. I've got a friend at school, where I study animation, who is doing somethng write now that I could picture "Trek" in the style of.


Actually, maybe I could get some people together for a fan production, once I'm done with my short film and my animation portfolio project....


I'm hardly a traditional animation purist, but I'm not a big fan of all the attempts to create "Realistic" people on CG. It's never worked.

As I said before, it could be done as a cel--animated anime or DCAU-style show-I've got no problem with that.

Just because it doesn't work out for you doesn't mean it it couldn't work out at all-check out the Star Wars: The Old Republic trailer again.

I'd also like to see your project, too.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

untitled Animated Series (from 2006)

This series would be set in the year 2528 and would center around the latest crew of the starship Enterprise in a darker future.

by long-time Trek producer David Rossi [a producer on Trek Remastered] along with his producer/writer partners Doug Mirabello and José Muñoz
set in the 26th century.

As of November 2008, however, this series has not been green-lit by CBS and is still undergoing development.

Memory Alpha mentions

A darker future and the nuEnterprise-'Apple-store-bridge' from the new Trek branding of STXI just do not go together.
Back to the drawing board as I do not see this being greenlit in the next 18 months as-is.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: untitled Animated Series (from 2006)

A darker future and the nuEnterprise-'Apple-store-bridge' from the new Trek branding of STXI just do not go together.
Back to the drawing board as I do not see this being greenlit in the next 18 months as-is.

The reasons given there for doing an animated series are still valid, but that series doesn't sound interesting or even likely considering the success of the new film. An animated series has to feature Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise or they shouldn't do it.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

"Star Trek: Final Frontier" Web Site Launch

I read something a while back about a new animated trek show that was in the works but ended up being shelved for now.

Trekmovie.com on potential animated Trek[/QUOTE]


and now finally yesterday:
2 September 2009
"Star Trek: Final Frontier" Web Site Launch

Zero Room has released all of the Final Frontier design documents to the web at zeroroom.squarespace.com. The site contains detailed commentary on the development process, a look at the original pitch packet, and a comprehensive gallery of concept art (see a few samples here). In addition, Zero Room is releasing the five part script for the opening episode.

The setting is the year 2528

SOURCE
USS Voyager (NCC-74656) Launched in the year 2371 so this is 200 years after all the TV & film canon timelines.

the new Enterprise NR-02870 design I do not like:
design illustration:
http://zeroroom.squarespace.com/storage/entskch04.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1242173216032
This Sketchup model of the Enterprise
http://zeroroom.squarespace.com/gallery/ships/2268889

And I don't think I'm alone in saying this NR-02870 needs a redesign before this animated series would be produced...
lose the 90degree angles and give it more of a TrekXI Enterprise elegant curvy design.

 

[Jeyl]

Yet there are those in Starfleet who know that humanity was meant for more, and that our foray into the stars was borne not of a desire for power but for knowledge and adventure. Captain Alexander Chase of the U.S.S. Enterprise is one of these men, and he's about to make a decision that will set Starfleet back on the right path...

lol. Yes, yes. Because only MEN can decide which path the future must take us.

With the current state and mindset of Starfleet at the time of Final Frontier, it was decided that starships would be made up of predominantly human crewmembers.

Don't you mean male human crewmembers? And don't forget that one detail about Chase...

As a firm believer in the founding principles of Starfleet,

Founding principles? Hmm. Does that include that one line where women cannot be captains? Because that kind of changed down the road. If he's trying to reintroduce that, he obviously is doing a good job with his crew roster. Of the five characters it has listed with bios, it's got only one female character in it. Ya, I know there's a green skinned one on the top banner, but she pretty much represents what her role is all about. "Put a female character in there so we don't look too male domionant!" I love this bit about her description.

Not knowing the full extent of the chip’s capabilities, and due to it being engineered through Borg hardware, there will be those that don’t feel comfortable in her presence or that of her team, including the Captain.

Ya, because women with Borg hardware are never trustworthy. ..... . . .. . . .. . .. 200 years after Voyager that featured a borgified female crew member named 7 of 9 who saves the ship more than a dozen times.

Still, I do like this series more than ST09.

 

[DougM]

lol. Yes, yes. Because only MEN can decide which path the future must take us.

I am totally cool with anyone who has a problem with the story, or the design of the Enterprise, but I am insulted by the accusation that we're somehow sexist because we used the word "men" there instead of "people" or because the Captain this time around turned out to be a white male. That's just straight wrong.

Don't you mean male human crewmembers?

No, we don't mean that at all. In this future, Starfleet is wary of alien cultures, and so a large portion of the crew is human. Male, female, gay, straight. The mostly human bridge crew would eventually add more aliens (male and female) to the mix to reflect Starfleet's changing ideals as the series went on.

Ya, because women with Borg hardware are never trustworthy. ..... . . .. . . .. . .. 200 years after Voyager that featured a borgified female crew member named 7 of 9 who saves the ship more than a dozen times.

It's less that there's one person with Borg tech in her skull and more that there is an entire group of them, and they can communicate with each other without speaking. If you knew one of your coworkers had a recording device in her skull and a direct telepathic line to the corporate office, would you complain about your job around her, even if she promised you she turned it all off?

Still, I do like this series more than ST09.

Thanks. I really think your accusations of sexism here are misplaced. Our primary goal with this project was to put Star Trek back on the path to what it used to be about: exploration, universal wonder, and optimism. I am happy to talk in more detail about why we made the choices we made, but please don't put words in our mouths. We spent years of our lives working on this project, Star Trek is very important to us, and we like women. We really do.

 

[Jeyl]

I really think your accusations of sexism here are misplaced.

With apologies, I don't want to accuse you of anything. Really, I don't. This is just my arrogant viewpoint talking that you can totally push aside and not think anything of it because I don't want to persue it. Besides, my view points here are all total hog wash since I have not read a single story line from this series, so there's your biggest defense against my arguments. I'm still recovering from the bad vibe that the new Star Trek movie bestowed upon me and I needed somewhere else to point my finger at that wasn't Star Trek 09. All I get from those posts are praises for the film, so I got tired of it.

I've always been very vocal in the forums about the portrayal of women in movies, shows and comics. You can blame George Lucas for waking up the beast inside me with the line "She's lost the will to live" from Episode III of Star Wars.

I was hoping and praying to the Qs that the new Uhura in the Star Trek 09 movie would be more than just back ground handling communications, because no matter how I looked at her role from the series, it was essentially just a secretary in the back ground answering calls. Well, after seeing the darn movie, not only is she a useless character, they totally rendered the communications station useless by having different characters assigned to non-communication based posts handle all the communications! And while I was very optimistic at the Spock/Uhura romance potential, it came out rushed with no development and essentially no reason for being there. She was just Spock's love thing!

Our primary goal with this project was to put Star Trek back on the path to what it used to be about: exploration, universal wonder, and optimism.

And that's all this Star Trek fan could ask for. As I've said in a post earlier "why should a good story be limited to just Kirk and his crew?". Doing another story involving the original crew is just too easy to do especially if you're giving them a reboot on their beginnings. You and your crew are taking the challenge of actually creating something new that doesn't involve any "We're dumbing it down for the general audience" tactics. I also like how you mentioned that things will change as the series progressed. Story and Character development seem to be the big elements that scare the living daylights out of execs because if a character decides to do one thing differently, than new comers won't understand the show.

So with a heavy heart, I do apologize for that previous post coming off the way it did. I want to state again that I'm not accusing you or your crew of anything, sexist or not. I also don't want you to think that I'm trying to force you to change anything about this series because than I wouldn't be a good Star Trek fan. What happened earlier was just some fan with an opinion that needed to explode. I also think you handled yourself very professionally and for that you have my deepest thanks.

Good luck, I look forward to reading your future posts regarding this series!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's less that there's one person with Borg tech in her skull and more that there is an entire group of them, and they can communicate with each other without speaking. If you knew one of your coworkers had a recording device in her skull and a direct telepathic line to the corporate office, would you complain about your job around her, even if she promised you she turned it all off?

I would simply be afraid that the Borg implants would turn rogue and assimilate the security team, and then of course all crewmembers would be in danger. I wouldn't allow Borg tech within a light-year of my ship.

Unless, of course, this show takes the Destiny trilogy into account...although that would also be impossible, since after that series, there IS no more Borg tech left.

And as for the accusation that I want to CGI everything: No, of course not. Only that which clearly needs it. TAS is indeed a relatively pleasant show to watch, but come on. It's a 70's cartoon, so of course its animation sucks. It's practically begging for a CGI remake. And as I said, the existing voice tracks and effects could be retained.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

TAS remake with CGI

TAS is indeed a relatively pleasant show to watch, but come on. It's a 70's cartoon, so of course its animation sucks. It's practically begging for a CGI remake. And as I said, the existing voice tracks and effects could be retained.

It's been discussed on TrekBBS but I doubt it would happen as the licensing fees to the TOS actors would hurt the budget. All of the sets would need to be created in CG, all characters would need CG models, and then the animation itself. The music would need to be updated (written, performed, mixed) also. Sure I'd love to see a CGI-TAS but I know it will not happen.
The budget to just do the TAS in CG isn't worth it. If they are going to do this they will want to have a 3-5 year run if they can...

Any new animated series will have a new timeline, new voice actors, new music.

I wonder how the Voyager, Enterprise style of music that we've had since 1995 with Trek TV would work with any new animated series?

 

[AviTrek]

Re: TAS remake with CGI

TAS is indeed a relatively pleasant show to watch, but come on. It's a 70's cartoon, so of course its animation sucks. It's practically begging for a CGI remake. And as I said, the existing voice tracks and effects could be retained.

It's been discussed on TrekBBS but I doubt it would happen as the licensing fees to the TOS actors would hurt the budget. All of the sets would need to be created in CG, all characters would need CG models, and then the animation itself. The music would need to be updated (written, performed, mixed) also. Sure I'd love to see a CGI-TAS but I know it will not happen.
The budget to just do the TAS in CG isn't worth it. If they are going to do this they will want to have a 3-5 year run if they can...

Any new animated series will have a new timeline, new voice actors, new music.

I wonder how the Voyager, Enterprise style of music that we've had since 1995 with Trek TV would work with any new animated series?

I'd hope that sampled music has cut the cost enough that a new series could return to more unique episode specific music instead of Berman's generic wall of sound.

 

[DougM]

Good luck, I look forward to reading your future posts regarding this series!

Thanks! Donal actually has some of the best moments in the script coming up. She's undoubtedly my favorite character and was a lot of fun to write. Give it a read and let us know what you think.

And as for the accusation that I want to CGI everything: No, of course not. Only that which clearly needs it.

We actually looked into doing Final Frontier in CGI at the request of CBS Interactive. We spoke with a few animation houses and got budgets from them. The problem is that to do good CG like you see in Bioware's Star Wars teaser or movies like Appleseed, you need A LOT of money. We probably could have done the series in live action for about the same cost. CBS Interactive was not going to spend that much money for a web-based project.

That, coupled with the fact that we always saw it done in traditional animation for a more colorful, comic book type feel, meant we were sticking with 2D.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

We actually looked into doing Final Frontier in CGI at the request of CBS Interactive. We spoke with a few animation houses and got budgets from them. The problem is that to do good CG like you see in Bioware's Star Wars teaser or movies like Appleseed, you need A LOT of money. We probably could have done the series in live action for about the same cost. CBS Interactive was not going to spend that much money for a web-based project.

DougM that is so cool! Thanks for the insider info from this "Star Trek: Final Frontier" project about the possibility of a CGI styled animated series from the CBS umbrella itself. We know that CBS interactive isn't exactly CBS Television but the fact that they requested the costs involved shows they were interested in a CG-based narrative.
As you know we've had favorable results here on TrekBBS of a poll about a A Star trek CGI series .

We probably could have done the series in live action for about the same cost.

This says a lot but somewhat confusing at the same time. The cost to build live action Trek sets is immense, especially the larger ones like the promenade on DS9 which was close to $2 million for season 2.
Makeup and costumes are restricted in live action but really you can do so much more with CG once the model is built.
Your particular "Star Trek: Final Frontier" was a series with 6 minute 'episodes' where a TV series would be 22 minute or 43 minute episodes and thus be a huge difference in cost shooting live action with more production days/actor salaries/equipment rental/crew labor rates, etc.

 

[AviTrek]

Actually Jeffriestubes, I think it shows that you have continued to underestimate what tv/movie production quality CGI costs. You can't keep looking at video games and say, see a CGI tv show is cheap. For one video games cost a ton to make these days, and they still don't have the details that you see in CGI tv/movies.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

you have continued to underestimate what tv/movie production quality CGI costs. You can't keep looking at video games and say, see a CGI tv show is cheap. For one video games cost a ton to make these days, and they still don't have the details that you see in CGI tv/movies.

My mentions of using a videogame 'in-engine' CG was for

the rendering of 3-D CGI environments

mostly.

the actual animation would be done by motion capture data and rendered by a game console.

It is a possibility but would look better if that motion capture data were used by better animation software than a gaming engine.

regarding Borg drones could use the AI

model created in a videogame engine so they wouldn't have to be animated.

It's possible to mesh the two technologies and composite various things into a 1920x1080 24fps video which would be a series.
Borg drones in the background do not need the level of detailed rendering if they are out of focus and with modern CG animation you can control depth of field much better than 2D animation.

To create an animated show using a videogame physics engine and CG models doesn't mean it has to be fleshed out to be a game. As long as it can be used to create the environments and what is needed to create a TV series would be adequate. By a fleshed out game I mean [debugging all levels, recording a music score, mixing music and placing it dynamically where a character walks, sound FX and dyanmic placement, smooth transitions from levels of the game, managing data bitrates to load the levels, music, and gameplay high fps.
We are talking about motion picture for HDTV which would be a 24fps source from which would be recorded to a HDCAMSR videomaster at 24fps [which would have a 180degree shutter and cinematic motion blur] and then from that a 30fps or 25fps video can be made for the various networks requirements.
It's just an idea that there is the possibility of now due to costs coming down and lighting and atmospheric effects getting much better.

 

[theARE]

I like the idea of a new animated series - it's possible the new cast could be persuaded to do voice work for an animated series as well, which would be good.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

TrekXI cast voices

I like the idea of a new animated series - it's possible the new cast could be persuaded to do voice work for an animated series as well, which would be good.

This is an idea we haven't explored yet on TrekBBS. Quite possible as it would tie in 2 or 3 new feature films with the small screen and getting Trek back on TV. I could see 3-6 episodes including them but an animated show needs its own ship and cast. It would be a good into to a new cast though in season one if the timeline is the same as TrekXIII.

 

[Red Ranger]

I've had a bit of a rethink.

This animated series should be about the newly revised TOS characters. Surely, the stars of the recent movie might be interested in voice-over work?

My other idea: A Flash Gordon-style show about the wild, early, cowboy days of the Federation, with a young Captain Pike and his crew saving the day against Klingons and Romulans. I'd call it Star Trek: Captain Pike's Pioneers, or Star Trek: The Early Days, and the ship ought to be called Pioneer.

Second, please no CGI animation. It's awful.

And third? Never, ever, ever use Faith of the Heart as a theme for anything ST-related!

Red Ranger

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Never, ever, ever use Faith of the Heart as a theme for anything ST-related!

Can I get an amen?