The DS9 Relaunch - will it ever return to its roots again?

[Jefferies]

I’m sorry if this has been discussed recently but scrolling back across current topics I couldn’t find any threads on this. My main concern is the current development of the DS9 Relaunch. I was an avid fan of this brilliant series of novels all the way from Avatar to Unity including the Worlds of DS9 anthology. I loved how all the main story points from the series, the main characters, Federation, Bajoran and Alpha Quadrant politics were expanded upon in a way that made it feel like a true continuation of the series, just in written form. However, ever since Warpath came along I feel that this approach has been abandoned. I know many here have expressed fondness for the recent publications. But putting that aside for the moment, don’t any of you wish the writers would get back to focusing on developing the main characters and the situation in the prime universe instead of them going off on tangents that take place in alternate dimensions, the past, comatose dreams and with a tendency of focusing on minor characters? Fine, Warpath tried to continue the main story, but it was so different in style from the previous Relaunch books and the TV-series (being unnecessarily graphic and gloomy in atmosphere) that I felt truly disappointed with this as well. I would really enjoy seeing a novel again that was hopeful and true to the style of the series and that takes our beloved characters and space station forward into the future, like they did from Avatar to Unity so perfectly. I would really like to see the Captain and crew back in action again – DS9 style!

 

[Thrawn]

This HAS been discussed, but just to get this all straight at the top of a new thread:

Warpath was published in 2006. It was supposed to be the first half of a two-book series. The second book, Fearful Symmetry, was scheduled for 2007. Except, for whatever reason, the author was changed (I remember some kind of post by Marco about trying to assure a quality product, leading me to think that the original author sucked. But that's just a theory.) So, with the delay, it was rescheduled for 2008.

Except, the new author, Olivia Woods, wrote a book that was too long and it would either be rushed to be finished in time, or it would be split into two books and be a better product. Again, Marco chose to go with quality over speed, delaying the end until 2009. At which point he had been laid off, so whatever direction he was going was changed.

So clearly this hasn't been the DS9 relaunch's finest couple years, but it's not like they were intentionally departing from its "roots" or whatever the hell you said. It's just the vagaries of the publishing business. This kind of thing happens. What was originally a 2-book sideplot, meant to tie in to the new established Mirror Universe continuity being launched around the same time, became something that dragged on much longer. Oh well.

 

[Tino]

True. It's only been three books. Feels like more to me.

Personally, I'm not so much into the mirror universe stories. So I kinda understand what Jeffries is talking about. However, I will "endure" and I am looking forward to stories in our universe again. But I'm not leaving out any DS9-book anyhow. ;-)

 

[Jefferies]

From the news postings I had already gotten the impression that things were going badly for the writers and the series. This is something I feel truley sorry about. However, given the circumstances, wouldn't it make more sense to focus stricly on the core of what worked for the relaunch? For example, even if the mirror universe arc was all planned out wouldn't three years have been enough to come up with something more compelling and recognisable to write about? Or was this out of the hands of the authors?

 

[Rush Limborg]

Know what I'd like to see?

A big, giant volume--perhaps a trade paperback--that details the Ascendents storyline, at long last...and covers the time period from Soul Key to Destiny.

It would show, basically, how we got "from there to here", including (but not limited to), Ezri leaving to be assigned to the Aventine.

That's just me. But think of the record that could be set--Longest Star Trek Novel EVER--and an epic tale to match!

 

[Jefferies]

I can see why people might like an epic approach like that, but I would prefer if they just continued things the way they were done during the "8th season", that is taking the story ahead episode by episode. Also Ezri as Captain seems a bit far fetched, wouldn't you say? Doesn't really feel in tune with her character.

 

[Warp Coil]

Know what I'd like to see?

A big, giant volume--perhaps a trade paperback--that details the Ascendents storyline, at long last...and covers the time period from Soul Key to Destiny.

It would show, basically, how we got "from there to here", including (but not limited to), Ezri leaving to be assigned to the Aventine.

That's just me. But think of the record that could be set--Longest Star Trek Novel EVER--and an epic tale to match!

I'm currently reading VOY's Full Circle, which was tasked with the challenge of bringing that series up to the post-Destiny timeframe. It's a whopping 500+ page brick of a book. Clearly DS9 could do something similar, though they have even more time to cover than VOY.

 

[Christopher]

From the news postings I had already gotten the impression that things were going badly for the writers and the series.

Nothing's going badly aside from a couple of unavoidable setbacks with one story (which has now become two novels). Of course losing Marco as the editor was a bad thing, but I'm not sure where you get the idea that "the writers," plural, have been having any problems. The rough patch that delayed Fearful Symmetry/The Soul Key is past. Both books are now on the shelves. There was a setback and now it's over.

Of course, things are a bit up in the air what with the change in editors. We'd learned of Margaret Clark's intention to jump the DS9 characters forward to the Typhon Pact era, but now she's gone too and the new editor hasn't been announced yet. So what happens with DS9 beyond the Typhon Pact miniseries is unknown. But that's because of the editorial changes and is not due to any kind of pre-existing problems with the DS9 series in particular.

This is something I feel truley sorry about. However, given the circumstances, wouldn't it make more sense to focus stricly on the core of what worked for the relaunch? For example, even if the mirror universe arc was all planned out wouldn't three years have been enough to come up with something more compelling and recognisable to write about? Or was this out of the hands of the authors?

What are you talking about? Fearful Symmetry was the next book in the series. It got delayed when the original author left and a new author was brought in to rework the story. Then it turned out longer than expected and got split into two books. Now it's done, but Marco was laid off and so his plans for what came after that story no longer apply.

And just because you personally don't care for the Mirror Universe doesn't mean that nobody would've found it "compelling" or "recognizable." They weren't doing anything wrong just because they didn't consult with you before making their decisions.

Also Ezri as Captain seems a bit far fetched, wouldn't you say? Doesn't really feel in tune with her character.

Huh? Ezri becoming a command-track officer is something that started in the very first book of the DS9 relaunch and has been an integral part of her character ever since. So why would a fan of the DS9 relaunch think that the culmination of that arc -- actually becoming the commanding officer she's been training to be since Avatar -- was out of character?

 

[tenmei]

With the talk about how Marco's plans for the DS9 Relaunch no longer apply because he was laid off, it makes me wonder - was there ever a 'Season Plan' (so to speak) for the novels following Unity as there seemed to be for the novels leading up to that book?

If there was, wouldn't the new 'showrunner' be able to follow that?

 

[Jefferies]

From the news postings I had already gotten the impression that things were going badly for the writers and the series.

Nothing's going badly aside from a couple of unavoidable setbacks with one story (which has now become two novels). Of course losing Marco as the editor was a bad thing, but I'm not sure where you get the idea that "the writers," plural, have been having any problems. The rough patch that delayed Fearful Symmetry/The Soul Key is past. Both books are now on the shelves. There was a setback and now it's over.

Of course, things are a bit up in the air what with the change in editors. We'd learned of Margaret Clark's intention to jump the DS9 characters forward to the Typhon Pact era, but now she's gone too and the new editor hasn't been announced yet. So what happens with DS9 beyond the Typhon Pact miniseries is unknown. But that's because of the editorial changes and is not due to any kind of pre-existing problems with the DS9 series in particular.

This is something I feel truley sorry about. However, given the circumstances, wouldn't it make more sense to focus stricly on the core of what worked for the relaunch? For example, even if the mirror universe arc was all planned out wouldn't three years have been enough to come up with something more compelling and recognisable to write about? Or was this out of the hands of the authors?

What are you talking about? Fearful Symmetry was the next book in the series. It got delayed when the original author left and a new author was brought in to rework the story. Then it turned out longer than expected and got split into two books. Now it's done, but Marco was laid off and so his plans for what came after that story no longer apply.

And just because you personally don't care for the Mirror Universe doesn't mean that nobody would've found it "compelling" or "recognizable." They weren't doing anything wrong just because they didn't consult with you before making their decisions.

Please don't take my comments personal! It is not my intention to deride your work. The reason I feel the Mirror universe is not as recognisable as the main universe is simple statistics. There have been about half a dozen episodes on it and about 170 episodes on the rest of DS9. Therefore, I would be surprised if I'm the only person with that opinion. Also all I read was that people were being layed off, which sounded pretty dire to me. So, I'm sorry if that gave me the impression that things were going badly.

 

[Christopher]

With the talk about how Marco's plans for the DS9 Relaunch no longer apply because he was laid off, it makes me wonder - was there ever a 'Season Plan' (so to speak) for the novels following Unity as there seemed to be for the novels leading up to that book?

If there was, wouldn't the new 'showrunner' be able to follow that?

Marco no doubt had ideas he intended to develop in conjunction with his authors, but different editors have their own approaches just as different showrunners do. For instance, whereas Marco would probably have stayed with 2377 for a while, Margaret decided that DS9 was lagging too far behind, that with the rest of the 24th-century series becoming more interconnected, DS9 shouldn't be left out any longer. As for the new editor, there's no telling at this point what their intentions may be, but Marco would be the last person to say that they should follow his plan instead of coming up with their own.

Please don't take my comments personal! It is not my intention to deride your work.

My work has nothing to do with it. My only work of DS9 fiction to date is a short story set in the fifth season.

The reason I feel the Mirror universe is not as recognisable as the main universe is simple statistics. There have been about half a dozen episodes on it and about 170 episodes on the rest of DS9. Therefore, I would be surprised if I'm the only person with that opinion.

The Mirror Universe anthologies have proven highly successful, which would strongly suggest that the majority of fans do not share your distaste for the Mirror Universe.

And your attempted use of "statistics" is totally meaningless. "City on the Edge of Forever" is only one TOS episode out of 80, but it's still consistently regarded as the greatest episode of the entire series. Popularity does not correlate to abundance.

Also all I read was that people were being layed off, which sounded pretty dire to me. So, I'm sorry if that gave me the impression that things were going badly.

Two editors of Pocket Books' media tie-in division got laid off, first Marco Palmieri in December, then Margaret Clark less than two weeks ago. That's not specific to DS9, and it played no part in the delays the DS9 line has experienced over the past couple of years, because the factors leading to those delays preceded the layoffs. And the writers aren't getting laid off, because we're freelancers.

 

[Thrawn]

I can see why people might like an epic approach like that, but I would prefer if they just continued things the way they were done during the "8th season", that is taking the story ahead episode by episode. Also Ezri as Captain seems a bit far fetched, wouldn't you say? Doesn't really feel in tune with her character.

You know that this has already been established, that Ezri is a captain in the Destiny trilogy, right?

 

[Cicero]

Warpath was published in 2006. It was supposed to be the first half of a two-book series. The second book, Fearful Symmetry, was scheduled for 2007. Except, for whatever reason, the author was changed (I remember some kind of post by Marco about trying to assure a quality product, leading me to think that the original author sucked. But that's just a theory.) So, with the delay, it was rescheduled for 2008.

The original author of "Fearful Symmetry", Sarah Shaw, wrote the "Saturn's Children", the Deep Space Nine part of the early Mirror Universe anthologies. If you're interested in her writing ability, it's worth reading. I actually enjoyed it most of the recent Bajor/Mirror stories, though, like all of the entries in the Mirror anthologies, it felt somewhat light to me.

With the talk about how Marco's plans for the DS9 Relaunch no longer apply because he was laid off, it makes me wonder - was there ever a 'Season Plan' (so to speak) for the novels following Unity as there seemed to be for the novels leading up to that book?

I've wondered about that, too. There seemed to be a very clear direction in mind at least as recently as "Warpath", but I haven't had that sense since sometime in the years that separated it and the "Terok Nor" miniseries.

Please don't take my comments personal! It is not my intention to deride your work.

Christopher can come off as somewhat abrasive sometimes, but its (I think) his style of discussion, not a manifestation of any ill will.

The reason I feel the Mirror universe is not as recognisable as the main universe is simple statistics. There have been about half a dozen episodes on it and about 170 episodes on the rest of DS9. Therefore, I would be surprised if I'm the only person with that opinion.

The Mirror Universe anthologies have proven highly successful, which would strongly suggest that the majority of fans do not share your distaste for the Mirror Universe.

And your attempted use of "statistics" is totally meaningless. "City on the Edge of Forever" is only one TOS episode out of 80, but it's still consistently regarded as the greatest episode of the entire series. Popularity does not correlate to abundance.

I think you're misunderstanding the point. "City On the Edge of Forever" is well known, insofar as its general plot details are popular and widely remembered. But a story set in the world of the episode which engages its details rather than its broad, familiar elements, might feel foreign to a Star Trek fan not exceptionally well-versed in the series.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Mirror, Mirror" were actually better known - and more popular - than "City On the Edge of Forever" (if for different reasons). But a story set in even that one episode's relatively familiar version of the Mirror Universe is still less recognizable than an story which follows the universe depicted in most Star Trek: The Original Series episodes.

I'm fortunate to remember most of the Mirror episodes of Star Trek fairly well ("Second Skin", too), but I understand where Jefferies is coming from, because I feel that way about most Bajor-related stories. Except for some episodes near the close of the series, I never really picked up much of the Bajor-related elements of Deep Space Nine, and I've felt horribly lost reading books which assume knowledge of background characters and events to make meaning of their events.

 

[Thrawn]

The original author of "Fearful Symmetry", Sarah Shaw, wrote the "Saturn's Children", the Deep Space Nine part of the early Mirror Universe anthologies. If you're interested in her writing ability, it's worth reading. I actually enjoyed it most of the recent Bajor/Mirror stories, though, like all of the entries in the Mirror anthologies, it felt somewhat light to me.

The original author of Fearful Symmetry was Leanna Morrow.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The original author of "Fearful Symmetry", Sarah Shaw, wrote the "Saturn's Children", the Deep Space Nine part of the early Mirror Universe anthologies.

I seem to recall the name originally attached to "Fearful Symmetry" was one Leanna Morrow. She was replaced by Olvia Woods.

 

[Cicero]

The original author of "Fearful Symmetry", Sarah Shaw, wrote the "Saturn's Children", the Deep Space Nine part of the early Mirror Universe anthologies. If you're interested in her writing ability, it's worth reading. I actually enjoyed it most of the recent Bajor/Mirror stories, though, like all of the entries in the Mirror anthologies, it felt somewhat light to me.

The original author of Fearful Symmetry was Leanna Morrow.

Oops.

I wonder why I thought Shaw was attached to the book.

 

[DS9Continuing]

I don't want to belittle other people's feelings or opinions, but I genuinely don't understand all the problems people seem to be having with the DS9-R lately.

Saying that it's gone off at a tangent - how so? This is a storyline that's been building through 6 novels - Saturn's Children, Fragments and Omens, Olympus Descending, Warpath, Fearful Symmetry, The Soul Key. That's not a tangent - that's the story.

The Mirror Universe is boring, irrelevant, or silly - well, that's a matter of opinion. I consider the MU to be as much a World of DS9 as any of the others, and I think it's entirely appropriate to explore it in the novels - especially in the way it's been tied in to Kira's, Sisko's, Vaughn's, Dax's and Taran'atar's respective character development, and the building Ascendant storyline. One may not personally be the biggest fan of the MU, but that doesn't make it an invalid direction for the story to go.

With the talk about how Marco's plans for the DS9 Relaunch no longer apply because he was laid off, it makes me wonder - was there ever a 'Season Plan' (so to speak) for the novels following Unity as there seemed to be for the novels leading up to that book?

I've wondered about that, too. There seemed to be a very clear direction in mind at least as recently as "Warpath", but I haven't had that sense since sometime in the years that separated it and the "Terok Nor" miniseries.

Well, I've said before that I see Avatar to Unity as season 8 (with the parasites as the arc villain), Unjoined to The Soul Key as season 9 (with Iliana as the arc villain), and season 10 yet to come (with the Ascendants as the arc villain). By that time it would have caught up to the Destiny timeframe.

 

[tenmei]

Oh, I agree on Avatar to Unity being Season 8 and the stories from then onwards being Season 9 - not sure we've seen the conclusion of the ninth season, though. Nothing's felt as much of a finale as Unity did.

 

[Thrawn]

Well, we're skipping ahead 5 years, so I think Soul Key is going to be as much of an end to "season 9" as we're going to get!

 

[Rush Limborg]

Know what I'd like to see?

A big, giant volume--perhaps a trade paperback--that details the Ascendents storyline, at long last...and covers the time period from Soul Key to Destiny.

It would show, basically, how we got "from there to here", including (but not limited to), Ezri leaving to be assigned to the Aventine.

That's just me. But think of the record that could be set--Longest Star Trek Novel EVER--and an epic tale to match!

I'm currently reading VOY's Full Circle, which was tasked with the challenge of bringing that series up to the post-Destiny timeframe. It's a whopping 500+ page brick of a book. Clearly DS9 could do something similar, though they have even more time to cover than VOY.

Yup--and didn't Crucible: McCoy set a record with 600 or so pages?

Let's see...Soul Key takes place...in early 2377. Destiny takes place in 2381.

That's...almost four years to cover--and the more detail, the better--show-don't-tell, that sorta thing.

Perhaps...we can break Crucible's record with this....