Earth to Vulcan in 30 minutes - a possible solution?

[Sci]

Well they knew V'ger was coming days in advance of it reaching Epsilon 9. Was nobody scanning the Narada until it reached Vulcan orbit and started drilling?

The impression I get is that with the kind of warp technology they're using in ST09, a ship at warp cannot detect what is going on around them in normal space, nor can a ship or sensor platform in normal space detect what's going on in subspace.

It seems inconsistent with previous depictions of warp drive, but, honestly, I like that idea better. It's more dramatic.

Why didn't Earth or Vulcan send out a ship to intercept after it left Klingon space and open a dialogue?

What makes you think they didn't? It's entirely possible that they did and it was blown up. It's not like the Narada's first reaction to someone trying to talk to them was to invite them over for tea and biscuits.

 

[M'Sharak]

All the evidence points to them having either a) transwarp drive, b) warp highways, or c) both. I personally opt for c).

Though now I'm wondering why the Narada didn't use the warp highway to get to Earth, as it seems to take them a few hours at the most if I remember correctly. Maybe the warp highway had collapsed?

"warp highways"? You think evidence points to them having both transwarp drive and this mysterious 'warp highway'?

Or, the more likely reasons... warp drive is faster, the writers didn't care and the distance was influenced by the plot.

Maybe the warp highway had collapsed?

Are you drunk?

Come on, Kpnuts, you know better than that. Address the content of the post and refrain from making insinuations about the poster.

 

[JarodRussell]

Ships travel at the speed of plot.

Not in a good movie, in my opinion.

 

[Tom Servo]

Ships travel at the speed of plot.

Not in a good movie, in my opinion.

Well then all of Trek must suck in your opinion. Cause in every show and movie, the ships have traveled at the speed the plot wants them to.

 

[EJA]

So, does anyone have anything constructive to say about the ideas I've offered?

 

[Sector 7]

So, does anyone have anything constructive to say about the ideas I've offered?

Sorry, my friend, this is TrekBBS.

 

[Kpnuts]

So, does anyone have anything constructive to say about the ideas I've offered?

First you bring up a totally fanboy tech suggestion 'warp highways' with zero on screen evidence or fact. Then you suggest that these make believe highways have 'collapsed' and ask people for thoughts? You can make up all sorts of unofficial reasoning for every scene in the film, but it's basically the same as fan fiction.*

Fair enough if you want to suggest warp highways, but to then suggest that they 'collapsed' for no reason? I just find it a bit random that's all.

And about reporting me to a mod, I suggest you grow some thicker skin, stop being so high and mighty about yourself, and stop running to teacher or you'll have a tough time on Internet message boards, let alone life. It's called banter. Nothing malicious, wasn't meant to be nasty. No offence was meant.

M'Sharak, I'll drop it now. But I've contributed a fair amount to the topic in this thread already.*

 

[EJA]

So, does anyone have anything constructive to say about the ideas I've offered?

First you bring up a totally fanboy tech suggestion 'warp highways' with zero on screen evidence or fact. Then you suggest that these make believe highways have 'collapsed' and ask people for thoughts? You can make up all sorts of unofficial reasoning for every scene in the film, but it's basically the same as fan fiction.*

Fair enough if you want to suggest warp highways, but to then suggest that they 'collapsed' for no reason? I just find it a bit random that's all.

And about reporting me to a mod, I suggest you grow some thicker skin, stop being so high and mighty about yourself, and stop running to teacher or you'll have a tough time on Internet message boards, let alone life. It's called banter. Nothing malicious, wasn't meant to be nasty. No offence was meant.

M'Sharak, I'll drop it now. But I've contributed a fair amount to the topic in this thread already.*

Being high and mighty about myself? I thought I was being treated in an undignified manner, and I defended myself, the same as you or anyone else would. That's not being high and mighty, that's being human. And I'd probably have done the same thing if you'd said it about someone else. All I'm saying is I think you should think carefully before you open your mouth (or type on your keyboard, in this case). You might think it's funny and harmless, but other people may not see it that way. You didn't just say that my ideas are stupid, you offered no constructive reasoning behind your opinion. So it's nothing to do with being high and mighty; it's a perfectly natural and reasonable reaction.

 

[Pauln6]

Meh - a subspace highway is a better explanation than the mathematical insult we have at the moment. I thought I saw someone mention that Kirk talks about warp transfer points in a TOS episode although I don't recall it myself.

 

[Finnegan]

So, does anyone have anything constructive to say about the ideas I've offered?

My possible solution: 'cause that's the way it was written?

 

[pookha]

the idea of warp highways is not new.
trying to find explanations for the some of the distance traveled goes all the way back to the early days of tos fandom.

one place where they are mentioned

as to why nero didnt take it could be easily explained as certain highways or corridors are not readily known.
and it didnt occur to nero to ask if there was one between earth and vulcan.

bigger problem which crops up on rec.arts.startrek.tech is the size of the Federation. Sizes of up to 10,000 LY across have been quoted as diameters, and this corresponds to the occasional graphic displayed on screen showing the Federation's size and position within the galaxy. Other evidence points to a somewhat smaller size, but such questions as the distance from Earth to Bajor appear to present a paradox: some routes between Federation locations which are known to be far apart are traveled much more quickly than the TNG formula appears to allow.

The leading speculation on the newsgroup is a concept called "Warp Highways". Distinct from wormholes, these "highways" represent either natural (pre-existing) or artificial (thanks to heavy traffic) pathways where warp travel is much faster than the TNG formula, which represents a baseline.

The highways do not require additional technology beyond warp drive. Highways are not easily detectable in unknown space. This means that an exploration ship, such as the Enterprise, or a ship in unknown territory, such as Voyager, will travel between two arbitrary points at the nominal velocities presented in the TNG formula. A well-known region of space - such as the route from Bajor to Earth - would probably contain several well-known warp highways and allow less powerful ships to make the route in weeks rather than years, and top-of-the-line Starfleet ships to make the trip in mere days. Contact with local civilizations would allow Voyager to take shortcuts through the Delta Quadrant - which they frequently seem to.

 

[EJA]

Okay, so any ideas as to how long it takes for the Narada and the Enterprise to reach Earth? It looked to me like it was only a matter of hours.

 

[Pauln6]

Okay, so any ideas as to how long it takes for the Narada and the Enterprise to reach Earth? It looked to me like it was only a matter of hours.

Silly once again if their maximum speed was only warp 4 - it would take weeks. The only way they could possibly beat the Narada to Earth would be by using a warp corridor. Maybe access is keyed to Federation codes like the Jump Gates in B5?

If the writers can't be bothered to apply the physics of Trek to the real world science then they need to come up with an in story explanation to overwrite it.

They did try this with the transporters. Scotty claimed that it was possible but dangerous to beam from planet to planet (i.e. millions of kilometers instead of the usual 40,000-80,000km of close orbit established in 24th century stories) but glossed over how the transporter could beam them such a massive distance (after an hour at warp 4?) without any physical alterations to the machinery or additional power or how their scanners could give them a specific enough reading of the ship to hit anything specific. They effectively opened a Pandora's box without any intention of ever revisiting it to explain it.

So now if I was a Romulan I'd start beaming bombs onto unshielded Federation ships while cloaked from a distance of one light year away.

 

[EJA]

Fair enough if you want to suggest warp highways, but to then suggest that they 'collapsed' for no reason? I just find it a bit random that's all.

The entire film is very random, Kpnuts. Come on, all the original characters ending up on the same ship at the same time? Supernovas endangering whole galaxies? Kirk going from Cadet STRAIGHT TO CAPTAIN?!!

 

[EJA]

Okay, so any ideas as to how long it takes for the Narada and the Enterprise to reach Earth? It looked to me like it was only a matter of hours.

Silly once again if their maximum speed was only warp 4 - it would take weeks. The only way they could possibly beat the Narada to Earth would be by using a warp corridor. Maybe access is keyed to Federation codes like the Jump Gates in B5?

Well I reckon this is an instance where we have to just ignore the warp 4 thing, and assume they were at maximum warp.

 

[Pauln6]

Well I reckon this is an instance where we have to just ignore the warp 4 thing, and assume they were at maximum warp.

Or rather just assume that Scotty fixed their engines with a spanner, some toothpaste, and bogeys (boogers).

Also, the Narada was a mining ship for use wthin the borders of the Empire. It may be that the Narada wasn't at maximim warp or that its maximum warp wasn't as high as a starship.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Okay, so any ideas as to how long it takes for the Narada and the Enterprise to reach Earth? It looked to me like it was only a matter of hours.

Silly once again if their maximum speed was only warp 4 - it would take weeks.

Isn't the Enterprise's maximum warp speed Warp 7?

Also are we sure they weren't heading to Vulcan at TNG warp speeds which are faster than TOS warp speeds?

I mean with the 3 or 4 warp cores they had the ship has to be pretty fast.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Okay, so any ideas as to how long it takes for the Narada and the Enterprise to reach Earth? It looked to me like it was only a matter of hours.

Silly once again if their maximum speed was only warp 4 - it would take weeks.

Isn't the Enterprise's maximum warp speed Warp 7?

8, according to the dossier from the official movie site

 

[Pauln6]

Okay, so any ideas as to how long it takes for the Narada and the Enterprise to reach Earth? It looked to me like it was only a matter of hours.

Silly once again if their maximum speed was only warp 4 - it would take weeks.

Isn't the Enterprise's maximum warp speed Warp 7?

Also are we sure they weren't heading to Vulcan at TNG warp speeds which are faster than TOS warp speeds?

I mean with the 3 or 4 warp cores they had the ship has to be pretty fast.

Warp 4 was the speed they were trying to achieve after being damaged in the fight so they were travelling at warp 4 for at least part of the journey. I was already taking the TNG warp speed tables into account - it would still take several hours to travel between Earth and Vulcan at TNG Warp 9.9 from what I recall. Obviously if they've re-jiggered them again to make everybody faster, I don't approve.

My own personal view is that they should set the limits of the technology and write the story around them rather than changing them to gloss over a hole in the plot. Just my opinion!

 

[JarodRussell]

My own personal view is that they should set the limits of the technology and write the story around them rather than changing them to gloss over a hole in the plot.

Yes, that's exactly the point. There's no difference between a Deus Ex Machina and "ships that travel at the speed of plot". Both is bad writing.