TMP Edit Project

[TOS Purist]

Hello!

Some of you might know about my project to use the editing skills I'm learning in film school to "improve" TMP and make it a more enjoyable experience. There IS actually a pretty darn good film buried under the overdone special effects and redundant, drawn-out scenes...I invite you to travel back to 1979 and experience "the human adventure" like never before!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F67wfn66s7A

 

[SonicRanger]

I don't like it. You've kept a minute of nothing but blackness, but cut Jerry Goldsmith's brilliant Klingon theme with some beautiful effects shots. Plus the added labels -- ugh. And we already have three or four cuts of TMP -- do we really need another? If it takes a fifth edit to make it "enjoyable", there is either something too wrong with the film or with the viewer that isn't going to be fixed with such edits. TMP is a product of its time and should reflect that, slow pace and all.

 

[TOS Purist]

Well, the "blackness" was supposed to be a starfield. I suggest that you could adjust your monitor settings to a slightly brighter display setting so you can see them. I wanted to keep a little "overture" like the original version, but make it music with purpose - not just random clips from the soundtrack.

I'm sorry you didn't like that I cut the Klingon part, but it was very slow, and if you like to listen to music, I would also suggest getting the CD. A film should be about storytelling - it's not supposed to be a music video.

If you're opposed to the idea of "fixing" TMP at all, then you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. In that case, I don't see why you bothered to watch it at all, but I thank you for your interest!

 

[gastrof]

This whole discussion should really be in the movie forum, not in the TOS forum.

 

[TOS Purist]

That's a good point...I guess I just put it here since it was TOS-related.

 

[Warped9]

With the TMP DE the only thing I find lacking are scenes that were never filmed, and there's no way to fix that without a time machine: you'd have to go back, write in more substance and character friction between Kirk and Decker and some of the crew and film it.

Otherwise what we got is what we got.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Competently done thus far - I haven't looked at the wormhole sequence yet - but "improve" definitely belongs in quotes (as you did) since what's cut out and what's kept is a matter of de gustibus non est disputandum. Kunzel's conducting of the TOS theme is one of the more vanilla renditions out there, IMAO, and not terribly interesting or energetic, which just exacerbates the loss of the Goldsmith theme. And ditto what others have said about ditching the Klingon opening - while it's slow in places, this was one of the sequences that worked properly and dramatically in the film as well as being one of the more interestingly shot.

Epsilon 9, OTOH, consists of pretty flat performances by actors delivering exposition. After E9 there's not much in this edit that picks up the pace at all from the original.

Certainly there are effects shots there and in San Fran and orbit that could be shortened or eliminated...I can see the problems of editing there, though, because then you have to get into editing the soundtrack mix to bridge them.

I remember that on seeing at its MacArthur Theatre premiere in 1979 the crowd reaction to the first shots of the Klingons was overwhelmingly positive. There was a lot of cheering over the early introductory scenes - folks started to shift and mutter uncomfortably during the Enterprise fly-around. I think probably everyone liked the endless tour of the ship - it was an almost entirely fannish crowd - but people were nonetheless getting the sense that the movie was possibly too dilatory and low-energy by comparison with popular hits Star Wars or CE3K or even Superman.

 

[tehfunz0rz]

Oh man, there's gonna be a copyright claim on this so fast…

 

[Mallory]

Off to Trek Movies...

 

[Deckerd]

I miss TGT in these discussions.

 

[TOS Purist]

With the TMP DE the only thing I find lacking are scenes that were never filmed, and there's no way to fix that without a time machine: [...] Otherwise what we got is what we got.

Well I did the best I could over the course of five months of planning - how I wanted to edit the scenes, how they could be properly tightened-up instead of cutting things willy-nilly, and I hope that someone is able to appreciate that to some degree and enjoy the movie! It's KIND of different from the super-slow and boring original, right? There's a difference?

I can see the problems of editing there, though, because then you have to get into editing the soundtrack mix to bridge them.

Yes, although I DID have to edit the soundtrack mix in order to bridge scenes throughout the entire film, the San Fran shots would have been among the more difficult to accomplish. So I pretty much left that the way it was, although I did add some TOS "lobby music" in the scenes where Kirk is talking to Sonak.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I've watched three of the edits, and the newer (or is that older?) music is tonally wrong in both cases. The TOS theme at the outset is wrong for the movie. It doesn't convey the same majesty as Goldsmith's theme. The wormhole sequence TOS music, once again, does not jive with the tone or look of the film.

As DS9sega told me, music can color a picture. Unfortunately, the use of the TOS music, and I love Sandy Courage's theme, colors the picture in the wrong way. Sandy Courage's rearrangement of his theme that appears in the actual film, however, is tonally right.

Moreover, there is no finesse to the edit. It seems as if sequences are merely deleted and no attempt is made to connect scenes rhythmically or even logically. Since others already spoke about the Klingon sequence, and I agree with their statements, let's look at the transporter accident.

The accident is simply cut out, which creates a plot and logic whole between the time Kirk demotes Decker to the time when Kirk selects Decker as science officer. The accident SHOWS the audience why Decker has to replace Sonak. The accident SHOWS us that the Enterprise is far from ready for this mission.

Moreover, we don't see Kirk leave engineering in this "edit" and that creates a logic bomb in the brains of the audience:

"Wasn't he just standing in front of Scotty?"

"Why does the corridor look different?" (it's lit differently than the engineering decks)

"Did Decker just hang out waiting for Kirk to chew him out some more?"

"Why does Sonak need replacing? Wasn't he just talking with Kirk on Earth?"

Trim, yes. But sacrifice story and plot, no. It seems this edit does the latter and not the former.

It's like adjusting the length of a pair of pants. Instead of cutting the excess off the cuff and stitching it nicely, it's just merely been cut with loose threads left hanging.

 

[TOS Purist]

The transporter scene was unnecessarily gruesome and horrific, and as long as we're talking about "not fitting the tone of the film," it certainly failed at that. There was no real reason for the scene in the first place, other than to fill time.

As for the "majesty" of the Goldsmith theme, when I hear that I don't hear "majesty," all I hear is the TNG theme. It certainly doesn't convey the message that this is TOS production and it fails to give it the desperately-needed TOS feel. But the TNG/TMP theme is repeated over and over again ad nauseum throughout the film, so it's not like the theme isn't there anymore.

Here's a thought - how about you watch ALL the edits, the completed work, before you make your final judgement? Just an idea.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The transporter scene was unnecessarily gruesome and horrific, and as long as we're talking about "not fitting the tone of the film," it certainly failed at that. There was no real reason for the scene in the first place, other than to fill time.

It wasn't mere filler. Filler are the long, tedious effects shots with the crew staring gap tooth.

It fits completely with the tone of the film.

This is a dangerous mission that they may not return from, as stated in the Bridge scene by Uhura. But in that scene we are TOLD about the danger. Same with the scene in the travel pod. Scotty TELLS us that the ship isn't ready. The transporter scene then takes those two statements and SHOWS us the danger to ship and crew. It SHOWS us a ship unprepared for launch, further demonstrated by the wormhole sequence. But unlike that, the transporter deaths give us a sense that anyone of our characters could die. It's supposed to be "gruesome and horrific" because it conveys to the audience the danger of this mission.

Then it's followed up by the wormhole sequence which SHOWS us that not only is the ship faulty, but that Kirk is unprepared for this new Enterprise. He is stale and may make the wrong decisions down the line.

It's all about narrative process, building on what came before and creating more anxiety in the audience as a result.

As for the "majesty" of the Goldsmith theme, when I hear that I don't hear "majesty," all I hear is the TNG theme. It certainly doesn't convey the message that this is TOS production and it fails to give it the desperately-needed TOS feel. But the TNG/TMP theme is repeated over and over again ad nauseum throughout the film, so it's not like the theme isn't there anymore.

1) TNG took the theme from a TOS movie. So what came first the chicken or the egg? In this case, the egg. The music was written for the first TOS movie, how can it not convey the message that this is a TOS production.

1) Granted the movie lacked the spark that made TOS a great and fun show, but the problems in the movie go deeper than just music. The one thing TMP did excel at is the music. Giving it TOS music doesn't make it any more or any less TOS than it was. You'd have to alter the movie at the script level, and it's too late for that by far.

Hearing the TNG theme instead is retroactively coloring the viewpoint here. Instead of seeing the movie for what it was in 1979, it's being seen through the filter of over 300 hours of ModTrek.

2) Yes the theme is played "ad nauseum" throughout the movie because it's the theme. Might as well say that the JAWS theme is overdone in the movie. Goldsmith's theme musically identifies the two most important things in this movie -- the Enterprise and Kirk, tying both together.

Without it in the beginning, how is the audience supposed to be cued to this.

Here's a thought - how about you watch ALL the edits, the completed work, before you make your final judgement? Just an idea.

If you want someone to continue watching, then being snarky with a smile isn't the way to go about it.

 

[Ziz]

Head over to fanedit.org and join the forums there. You'll probably get a more balanced view of your edit choices.

 

[CaptainKen]

Hey, I'll give your edit a look. I'm curious. Is it only available on youtube? Or have you posted a torrent? How about info at fanedit.org?

One thing I know about trekbbs, you can expect some harsh responses. Don't let it trouble you. If you've done good work and you're proud of it, look for affirmation and supporting ideas and suggestions.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I will say that the choice to shorten the Enterprise fly by was a solid one. I've always felt that the ship should've been revealed when it left dock, not while it was still in it.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

How many fans do you think would PREFER the movie with the Klingon sequence cut out?

IF you say over 2% you're an moron.

So your first cut alienates 98% of the fans.*


*Not a 'scientific' claim!


The movie could have been cut down by a solid 15 minutes by only cutting out only the 'dead spots' between/during scenes NOT by cutting out entire scenes. But that would have required cutting the soundtrack and most fans wouldn't even accept that.


Pointless, but fun. I too, have made alternate cuts of TMP.
I wouldn't post them here and have my work ripped to shreds by folks like me.

AND
"The transporter scene was unnecessarily gruesome and horrific."

You are aware the version of the movie you are making this from is RATED 'G' Not even PG. But plain G????? Right??

 

[Pauln6]

Yikes, so you really did cut out Janice? I might still watch it but the movie will never be complete without her. It was the only time she ever got to kill anyone in her whole Starfleet career!

 

[Adm_Drake]

At last ST:TMP has been reedited for those with ADD.

I'll stick with the Director's Cut, my only quibble with that is that bad panning shot near the end where the characters say their lines like they're under hypnosis. (Chekov: 18 minutes to dewice actiwation, sir.)