Starship Troopers

[JuanBolio]

IIRC, Verhoeven was working on a sci-fi bughunt project that someone noticed was similar to Starship Troopers' theme and so elements of the book were merged with the original project.

Some of Verhoeven's work seems lost on most Americans, very satirical and pushing the envelope of good taste. He pushed horror-level violence , along with social satire, into action movies with Robo-Cop and Total Recall (which Americans, violence junkies ate up), and pushed sex with violence with Basic Instinct, another hit. But when he did a movie with lots of sex and nudity, Showgirls, it was met with hatred (though in the end it was actually anti-hedonism). When he made an action sci-fi that was propaganda satire and the heroes were fascist thugs...no one got it. He had pushed American audiences a bit past their limits, then went too far for them.

No, I don't think that's it at all. The problem with Starship Troopers is not that it went to far in the violence or sex department, but that it tried to make satire out of a serious and interesting novel. Its a fun film, sure, but compared to the book its pale and watery and very unsatisfying.

I appreciate Verhoven's style - the Robocop was entertaining, Total Recall was great... but I think Starship Troopers needed to be done by someone with a little more respect for the source material. It is, in fact, Verhoven who didn't "get it".

 

[Demiurge]

The problem is the name. It's satirizing a book a great many people enjoyed and introduced them into scifi. It was visionary in many ways. Yet the movie was done by a man who couldn't even be bothered to even read it? There was a famous critique on Starship Troopers from Michael Moorcock back in the day (the guy also attacked Lord of the Rings). I challenged his understanding of the work in his own forums and he admitted he never read the book either.

Ah, you have to love hypocrites.

The book is a tad dated now but hell, it was required reading in the US service academies for decades.

Count me in as one of the group who would love to see the actual book made into a movie someday. The closest thing we've gotten yet is Iron Man.

 

[lennier1]

The problem is the name. It's satirizing a book a great many people enjoyed and introduced them into scifi. It was visionary in many ways. Yet the movie was done by a man who couldn't even be bothered to even read it? There was a famous critique on Starship Troopers from Michael Moorcock back in the day (the guy also attacked Lord of the Rings). I challenged his understanding of the work in his own forums and he admitted he never read the book either.

Ah, you have to love hypocrites.

The book is a tad dated now but hell, it was required reading in the US service academies for decades.

Count me in as one of the group who would love to see the actual book made into a movie someday. The closest thing we've gotten yet is Iron Man.

Still amazes me that people can´t get their head around the fact that VERHOEVEN DIDN´T FUCKIN´ CARE ABOUT THE BOOK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

As someone already mentioned above the movie was developed as an unrelated project and the connection with the book wasn´t made until later in the development stage because of the similarities in the basic premise.
It´s like people whining how much the Wing Commander movie differs from the games without actually knowing why the changes had to be made.

Hell, I love this movie for all those little details people try to use against it. Right down to using soap opera actors to drive home the fact of how crappy a propaganda movie made by a totalitarian regime like that would be.
Or just take the the recruitment officer with the amputated limbs telling them "The Mobile Infantry made me the man I am today...".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As someone already mentioned above the movie was developed as an unrelated project and the connection with the book wasn´t made until later in the development stage because of the similarities in the basic premise.

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

 

[lennier1]

As someone already mentioned above the movie was developed as an unrelated project and the connection with the book wasn´t made until later in the development stage because of the similarities in the basic premise.

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Evidence

 

[John Clark]

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

I don't have the book with me, but it was mentioned in "The Making of Starship Troopers" by a chap called Paul Sammon.

If memory serves, it was in an interview with Ed Neuimeier and I think the name at the time was going to be "Bug Hunt" but I'll have to check on that.

 

[lennier1]

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

I don't have the book with me, but it was mentioned in "The Making of Starship Troopers" by a chap called Paul Sammon.

If memory serves, it was in an interview with Ed Neuimeier and I think the name at the time was going to be "Bug Hunt" but I'll have to check on that.

Right on the money. The original working title was "Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine" but they shortened it later.

 

[Rii]

Still amazes me that people can´t get their head around the fact that VERHOEVEN DIDN´T FUCKIN´ CARE ABOUT THE BOOK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

It still amazes me that people can't get their head around the fact that people don't care that VERHOEVEN DIDN´T FUCKIN´ CARE ABOUT THE BOOK IN THE FIRST PLACE.d

 

[lennier1]

Why? I´ve read it three times and still don´t care much about it. It´s a product of its times. Just like other books (Fahrenheit 451, Dune, Brave New Worlds, ...) it has a lot of valid points but in the end it´s hard not to fall asleep while reading it.
Honestly I´m glad they only spiced up their original idea with elements from the book. There´s enough boring fanboy movies out there as it is. Although it would´ve made great MST3K material.

 

[Cutter John]

I give him props for making an anti-propoganda/anti-fascism movie rather than just another "Cool, lets blow shit up!" movie. But maybe he did too good a job as I can't really watch the film. Its just way too upsetting as I tend to take the Bugs side early on.

 

[Pilot Ace]

Do that and you get what Roughnecks: Starship Treeper Chronicles was like; my favorite to come out of the universe. The book wasn't bad though and the first movie was pretty good, but the animated series takes the prize.

I watched that show as a kid and I do have fond memories, someday I plan to revisit it and see if it was as good as I remember. YouTube actually hosts the whole show, legally: http://www.youtube.com/show?p=rzDK6m3JihA

My ultimate Starship Troopers Novel+Film merger-esque product is actually Old Man's War and The Ghost Brigades by John Scalzi. Both are fantastic.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I haven't seen it since it was out in theaters. Recently I bought the DVD box set that also includes the 2 direct to video sequels on a blind buy but I haven't gotten around to watching them yet.

I don't remember much about the movie. I was only about 14 when it came out. Here's what I do remember:
* The violence wasn't as gruesome as many had led me to believe. The only part that I found uncomfortable to watch was the scene where the drill sargeant throws a knife through the guy's hand.
* I knew it was a satire, although I'm not sure at what point I figured that out. Unfortunately, I had many very fascist leaning friends at the time. (Thankfully, serving a 1-year jail sentence on a bullshit charge cured at least one of them of that.)
* OMG! Boobs!
* No Denise Richards boobs.

 

[McCoy]

I give him props for making an anti-propoganda/anti-fascism movie rather than just another "Cool, lets blow shit up!" movie. But maybe he did too good a job as I can't really watch the film. Its just way too upsetting as I tend to take the Bugs side early on.

Yeah that's how I felt. Seeing these bugs get slaughtered under these circumstances was terrible. I don't think I could watch it again.

 

[miraclefan]

I give him props for making an anti-propoganda/anti-fascism movie rather than just another "Cool, lets blow shit up!" movie. But maybe he did too good a job as I can't really watch the film. Its just way too upsetting as I tend to take the Bugs side early on.

Yeah that's how I felt. Seeing these bugs get slaughtered under these circumstances was terrible. I don't think I could watch it again.

And having the troopers ripd 'limb from limb' wasn't terrible?

 

[Trent Roman]

I give him props for making an anti-propoganda/anti-fascism movie rather than just another "Cool, lets blow shit up!" movie. But maybe he did too good a job as I can't really watch the film. Its just way too upsetting as I tend to take the Bugs side early on.

Yeah that's how I felt. Seeing these bugs get slaughtered under these circumstances was terrible. I don't think I could watch it again.

Well, let's not get too sympathetic. They did crater Buenos Aires, after all. I'm not sure what kind of provocations they might have suffered previously--we only know that there was a quarantine zone where they were hemmed in, and humanity seemed to have a fair supply of bugs available for dissection--but the Arachnids are war criminals in their own right.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Pilot Ace]

Well, let's not get too sympathetic. They did crater Buenos Aires, after all. I'm not sure what kind of provocations they might have suffered previously--we only know that there was a quarantine zone where they were hemmed in, and humanity seemed to have a fair supply of bugs available for dissection--but the Arachnids are war criminals in their own right.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I was never convinced the Arachnids were responsible for the disaster at Buenos Aires. IIRC, we never saw them use any technology approaching the sort that would be required to alter the path of an object with significant mass.

Plus, Earth should have been long aware the object was coming and been able to warn its residents... That is, unless they allowed the object to hit in order to increase humanity's hatred for the bugs. Perhaps the government/military couldn't alter its natural course, so decided they might as well use the unavoidable disaster as a rallying cry.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Still amazes me that people can´t get their head around the fact that VERHOEVEN DIDN´T FUCKIN´ CARE ABOUT THE BOOK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

It still amazes me that people can't get their head around the fact that people don't care that VERHOEVEN DIDN´T FUCKIN´ CARE ABOUT THE BOOK IN THE FIRST PLACE.d

If Verhoeven's going to adapt the book, he has an OBLIGATION to care about it.

As for the bugs: Anyone who thinks that the bugs are the good guys had better watch the scene where they have massacred the innocent (yes, innocent) Mormon colonists.

 

[Pilot Ace]

If Verhoeven's going to adapt the book, he has an OBLIGATION to care about it.

That doesn't mean transcribing the book onto the big screen though. Great adaptions take the source material and adapt it for the screen like Blade Runner--few books would make great screenplays if you directly transcribe them because the medium is suited for a different style of storytelling.

Would I have wanted to sit through the long, classroom speeches present in the book during a movie? Not particularly, I will read them with no problem... Do I want to see the propaganda videos? Yes. Would I read them? Sure, but I don't think they would have been nearly as enjoyable.

As for the bugs: Anyone who thinks that the bugs are the good guys had better watch the scene where they have massacred the innocent (yes, innocent) Mormon colonists.

Neither side are "the good guys." Both sides have their reasons to act as they do. The way I watch the movie, I see the bugs as the defenders and Humanity as the aggressors.

IIRC, weren't those colonists essentially invading the land 'cause the bugs were there first? Not sure about this, but at that point Humanity had already been slaughtering the bugs, maybe? So, it sounds like the bugs were again defending themselves, this time from potential attack.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The way I watch the movie, I see the bugs as the defenders and Humanity as the aggressors.

Exactly. Therefore, the film plays the bugs as the good guys, the innocent victims who were only defending themselves.

IIRC, weren't those colonists essentially invading the land 'cause the bugs were there first?

The FedNet narrator said that the colonists "disregarded Federal warning", but what this exactly was, is unclear. We don't know what the Feds warned them *about*. Could have been just something like "that's a dangerous area, don't go there".

In any case, there had to have been something else the bugs could have done to warn the colonists away, other than wholesale slaughter... The 'brain bugs' are intelligent, why didn't they say something? "Hey you, this is our land, get out"?

Not sure about this, but at that point Humanity had already been slaughtering the bugs, maybe?

No, I don't think the war had started yet.

 

[Hyperspace05]

I think it was made pretty clear that the (mormon?) colonists were the ones that were trying to colonize bug territory, and that this started the conflict.