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Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUniverse?

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

I like the idea, and I think maybe everything changed in First Contact, I've floated this theory around TrekBBS:

---The evidence that gives credence to this theory is as follows: If you notice Captain Picard's wall of ships named Enterprise we see no representation of Archer’s NX-01 Enterprise, even though we see the Space Shuttle and the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise. (I know ST:Enterprise wasn’t on the air yet, ok? Stick with me) -So what if when Picard and the gang go back to protect Cochran’s first warp flight from the borg; Cochran, to honor his friends from the future and their gallant ship, decrees that the first warp 5 ship (when it’s built 100 some years later) be called Enterprise, when perhaps it was not initially christened that name in the original timeline and didn't appear on Picard’s wall of ships !! Another interesting note is that First Contact is the movie that depicts Picard smashing all his little gold ships in a rage against the machines (Borg frustration) perhaps as a symbolic statement that everything can change, including Enterprises legacy… giving further evidence that timelines can be, and have been, altered many times. Nothing is set in stone -or shiny gold plastic.---

You know, I personally rather like that theory, that the events of First Contact caused the alternate timeline that created the Enterprise inconsistencies. Very clever.

Good theory that, First contact affecting Enterprise. So, If Picard does not go back vis a via his Present the Prime Future is no more, that added with the lack of Time War leads to an alternate Enterprise.

Maybe one where poor Archer isnt strung up and beaten on a semi regular basis by aliens.
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Well, if Enterprise happened in the prime universe, where the devil is the model of the ship in TMP and TNG?

Two things:

- ENT, the series, hadn't yet been thought of, by the writers, so how can you expect there to be a model of one of its ships?

- The rec room wall scene in TMP didn't have all of the Enterprises either (it had only one of the two aircraft carriers, for example).
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Well, if Enterprise happened in the prime universe, where the devil is the model of the ship in TMP and TNG?
Do people really still think that this is any sort of an argument for anything, or are you just fishing?
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Well, if Enterprise happened in the prime universe, where the devil is the model of the ship in TMP and TNG?
Do people really still think that this is any sort of an argument for anything, or are you just fishing?

well through the years in the enterprise forum some of the critics
seemed to take it seriously.
:lol:

but seriously once one goes down this line of thinking everything after city and even assignment earth may have been in alternate time lines.
:lol:
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

I like the idea, and I think maybe everything changed in First Contact, I've floated this theory around TrekBBS:

---The evidence that gives credence to this theory is as follows: If you notice Captain Picard's wall of ships named Enterprise we see no representation of Archer’s NX-01 Enterprise, even though we see the Space Shuttle and the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise. (I know ST:Enterprise wasn’t on the air yet, ok? Stick with me) -So what if when Picard and the gang go back to protect Cochran’s first warp flight from the borg; Cochran, to honor his friends from the future and their gallant ship, decrees that the first warp 5 ship (when it’s built 100 some years later) be called Enterprise, when perhaps it was not initially christened that name in the original timeline and didn't appear on Picard’s wall of ships !! Another interesting note is that First Contact is the movie that depicts Picard smashing all his little gold ships in a rage against the machines (Borg frustration) perhaps as a symbolic statement that everything can change, including Enterprises legacy… giving further evidence that timelines can be, and have been, altered many times. Nothing is set in stone -or shiny gold plastic.---
That's an interesting take, but then wouldn't Archer's Enterprise appear on the ships wall in Insurrection and Nemesis if that were the case?
Maybe not. Remember, the Temporal Wake shielded Enterprise from the altered timeline when the Borg went through the first time. Enterprise had to use the same temporal wake to return to their own time, which means they are protected from any OTHER changes resulting from their own actions. If ST:Enterprise is an alternate timeline, then Picard's timeline lacks a Jonathan Archer and an NX-01 Enterprise and has, instead, UESPA's NX-00 Excelsior commanded by Captain Renee Picard. Or something.

Something else to consider here that hadn't occurred to me until now: much of Doctor Cochrane's engineering team was killed in the Borg attack, and so few of them were left Cochrane had to conduct his flight with Riker and Geordi riding shotgun. Lilly was up on the Enterprise at the time, which may or may not limit her effect on subsequent events*. These are some pretty major personnel changes that would have implications for the future, especially once Cochrane started looking for good people to help him improve his designs. Jonathan Archer's father was one of those people, but would he have been if not for the Borg attack on Montana?

Now much has been made for humanity's evolution towards a more civilized form, but in the mid 22nd century I don't think they had completely conquered the concept of nepotism. It is subtly implied that Jonathan Archer got to be Captain of the Enterprise because of his father's importance to the Warp 5 program, and he certainly felt it was part of his father's legacy and expressed a desire to protect it. In the same vein, one observes Archer's behavior throughout most of the First Season which, to me, indicates surprising amounts of arrogance, incompetence, and chronic unpreparedness or even an unwillingness to prepare for unexpected situations and--even into the third season--a tendency to be blindsided by totally predictable emergencies. Absent the importance of his father, Jonathan Archer wouldn't have been given command of a desk, let alone the Captain's Chair on the first Warp Five starship. Starfleet probably would have recruited someone from the Earth Cargo Service or an officer with actual deep space experience... someone who had some idea where they should go and what to do when they got there.

Anyway, what we have here may be an example of the Timetravel Butterfly Effect. Archer's command of Enterprise becomes the big split in this timeline (though the relevant one is the Borg opening fire on Montana). Archer's bumbling probably changed other events as well, not the least of which is hostilities with the Romulans and the first impression humans made on the Klingon Empire.



* I have for a long time privately theorized that it was Lilly, not Cochrane, who actually invented Warp Drive and Cochrane simply took the credit. Partly I got this from the fact that Lilly apparently did alot of the grunt work in building the Phoenix and was sufficiently protective enough to camp out next to it with a machinegun at the first sign of trouble; Cochrane, on the other hand, didn't give a shit, and openly admits that he only cared about the money. His reaction to all the hero worship from Riker's crew could be interpreted in that context too, seeing firsthand that his intention to cheat Lilly out of her own invention be accomplished beyond his wildest dreams. Towards the end he was forced to admit of his selfish little gambit that he had retroactively bit off more than he could chew, but with a blast of Riker's phaser he was now trapped in a lie that he--ironically--hadn't even told yet.
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Does that mean in The Episode Of Which We Do No Speak, we were actually seeing the Abramsverse versions of Riker and Troi? That would explain the discontinuities between The Pegasus and TATV.
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

I like the idea, and I think maybe everything changed in First Contact, I've floated this theory around TrekBBS:

---The evidence that gives credence to this theory is as follows: If you notice Captain Picard's wall of ships named Enterprise we see no representation of Archer’s NX-01 Enterprise, even though we see the Space Shuttle and the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise. (I know ST:Enterprise wasn’t on the air yet, ok? Stick with me) -So what if when Picard and the gang go back to protect Cochran’s first warp flight from the borg; Cochran, to honor his friends from the future and their gallant ship, decrees that the first warp 5 ship (when it’s built 100 some years later) be called Enterprise, when perhaps it was not initially christened that name in the original timeline and didn't appear on Picard’s wall of ships !! Another interesting note is that First Contact is the movie that depicts Picard smashing all his little gold ships in a rage against the machines (Borg frustration) perhaps as a symbolic statement that everything can change, including Enterprises legacy… giving further evidence that timelines can be, and have been, altered many times. Nothing is set in stone -or shiny gold plastic.---
That's an interesting take, but then wouldn't Archer's Enterprise appear on the ships wall in Insurrection and Nemesis if that were the case?
Maybe not. Remember, the Temporal Wake shielded Enterprise from the altered timeline when the Borg went through the first time. Enterprise had to use the same temporal wake to return to their own time, which means they are protected from any OTHER changes resulting from their own actions. If ST:Enterprise is an alternate timeline, then Picard's timeline lacks a Jonathan Archer and an NX-01 Enterprise and has, instead, UESPA's NX-00 Excelsior commanded by Captain Renee Picard. Or something.

Something else to consider here that hadn't occurred to me until now: much of Doctor Cochrane's engineering team was killed in the Borg attack, and so few of them were left Cochrane had to conduct his flight with Riker and Geordi riding shotgun. Lilly was up on the Enterprise at the time, which may or may not limit her effect on subsequent events*. These are some pretty major personnel changes that would have implications for the future, especially once Cochrane started looking for good people to help him improve his designs. Jonathan Archer's father was one of those people, but would he have been if not for the Borg attack on Montana?

Now much has been made for humanity's evolution towards a more civilized form, but in the mid 22nd century I don't think they had completely conquered the concept of nepotism. It is subtly implied that Jonathan Archer got to be Captain of the Enterprise because of his father's importance to the Warp 5 program, and he certainly felt it was part of his father's legacy and expressed a desire to protect it. In the same vein, one observes Archer's behavior throughout most of the First Season which, to me, indicates surprising amounts of arrogance, incompetence, and chronic unpreparedness or even an unwillingness to prepare for unexpected situations and--even into the third season--a tendency to be blindsided by totally predictable emergencies. Absent the importance of his father, Jonathan Archer wouldn't have been given command of a desk, let alone the Captain's Chair on the first Warp Five starship. Starfleet probably would have recruited someone from the Earth Cargo Service or an officer with actual deep space experience... someone who had some idea where they should go and what to do when they got there.

Anyway, what we have here may be an example of the Timetravel Butterfly Effect. Archer's command of Enterprise becomes the big split in this timeline (though the relevant one is the Borg opening fire on Montana). Archer's bumbling probably changed other events as well, not the least of which is hostilities with the Romulans and the first impression humans made on the Klingon Empire.



* I have for a long time privately theorized that it was Lilly, not Cochrane, who actually invented Warp Drive and Cochrane simply took the credit. Partly I got this from the fact that Lilly apparently did alot of the grunt work in building the Phoenix and was sufficiently protective enough to camp out next to it with a machinegun at the first sign of trouble; Cochrane, on the other hand, didn't give a shit, and openly admits that he only cared about the money. His reaction to all the hero worship from Riker's crew could be interpreted in that context too, seeing firsthand that his intention to cheat Lilly out of her own invention be accomplished beyond his wildest dreams. Towards the end he was forced to admit of his selfish little gambit that he had retroactively bit off more than he could chew, but with a blast of Riker's phaser he was now trapped in a lie that he--ironically--hadn't even told yet.

I like all of your ideas! This really explains stuff in a logical way. And, I'll go one step further. Because of the Temporal agent from the future giving the Suliban genetic enhancements in "Broken Bow", the Suliban, who were no problem in the Prime Universe, began harassing their neighbours, the Klingons, which led to Earth making contact with Earth much sooner than in the Prime Universe (perhaps Lily and Cochrane seeing the Enterprise-E also led to the development of a warp five engine and more advanced ship specs much sooner in the Enterprise universe than in the prime universe) The non-cannon TOS novel "Final Frontier" suggests that the Constitution-class is the first starship to incorporate continuous warp drive because of the development of duotonics, so you don't need to keep starting and stopping to revamp your coordinates on a subspace voyage... maybe in the prime universe they only had warp 2 vessels until the early 2200s - which could explain a conjectural first contact with the Klingons in 2218, as suggested by the Okuda Chronology...)

Also, perhaps in the prime universe, the Xindi remained isolationist and never attacked Earth, but due to interference by Temporal agents in the Enterprise/Abramsverse, the Xindi attacked. Following the Xindi war, once they realized Earth was not their enemy, the Xindi shared their advance shipbuilding techniques with Earth, as did the Vulcans and Andorians, which led to the Abramsverse Enterprise 1701, much more advanced than the 1701 in the prime universe, which was perhaps build primarily with Earth technology...

Just a few interesting ideas... It certainly explains the discrepencies between Ent and the series prior to it.
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Well, if Enterprise happened in the prime universe, where the devil is the model of the ship in TMP and TNG?

Two things:

- ENT, the series, hadn't yet been thought of, by the writers, so how can you expect there to be a model of one of its ships?

- The rec room wall scene in TMP didn't have all of the Enterprises either (it had only one of the two aircraft carriers, for example).

NO SHIT !!!.... Everybody knows that... this is about playful speculation to make all the pieces fit !! FOR FUN !!
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Does that mean in The Episode Of Which We Do No Speak, we were actually seeing the Abramsverse versions of Riker and Troi? That would explain the discontinuities between The Pegasus and TATV.

nah the abomination was from the yellow cake universe.
;)
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

There's evidence it came from the orange muffin universe. Really, you've got to be more careful about your supposed "facts".

"Yellow cake" indeed...
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Well, if Enterprise happened in the prime universe, where the devil is the model of the ship in TMP and TNG?

Two things:

- ENT, the series, hadn't yet been thought of, by the writers, so how can you expect there to be a model of one of its ships?

- The rec room wall scene in TMP didn't have all of the Enterprises either (it had only one of the two aircraft carriers, for example).

NO SHIT !!!.... Everybody knows that... this is about playful speculation to make all the pieces fit !! FOR FUN !!

All the pieces that need to fit, already do.
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

And here I thought all of Star Trek took place in the mind of Tommy Westphall. The mirror Gomer Pyle universe must be insane.
 
Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Does that mean in The Episode Of Which We Do No Speak, we were actually seeing the Abramsverse versions of Riker and Troi? That would explain the discontinuities between The Pegasus and TATV.

Yes. That would explain why the Enterprise-D looks slightly different and why Riker is wearing a holographic uniform instead of simply changing his clothes. He also seems to be much older in TATV, which could also be blamed on the Abramsverse timeline moving events a few years later into the future (and Pegasus' recovery is delayed by several years). In this case, the events of TATV could well take place AFTER First Contact and Nemesis.
 
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