Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUniverse?

[Mr. Crane]

(Originally posted by me on the psiphi.org board under the psedonym "Ensign T-Rex"

I think the idea that Abram's Trek is an alternate universe from, as some are calling it, the "prime universe", gives us an excellent way of explaining the inconsistencies with canon and fanon found in "Star Trek: Enterprise". That series was a hard fit into the chronology of the series that came before it without a lot of interpreting, etc., but works perfectly as a prequel to the movie Trek of this new universe.

Perhaps it wasn't Nero's coming back in time that created this new universe. Maybe it happened much earlier, a result of the Temporal Cold War...

Sure, the idea that the Enterprise series didn't exist in the Prime Universe is contradicted by the episodes "in a Mirror Darkly Part 2" - (Archer's dossier in the Defiant memory bank), and "These are the voyages" (Riker/Troi watching a holoprogram of the crew...), but it just makes sense to me to slot the prequel series into the nuTrek / Abramsverse Trek universe, and not the original one.

It would explain a lot of discrepencies... including why the NX-01 did not appear in the lounge wall of the Enterprise-E on Nemesis, even though the series was already on the air... we did see there was a ship in a graphic named the U.S.S.Archer, but that only means there was a versio of Jonathan Archer in the Prime Universe - maybe he was a captain of on e of the first Daedalus-class vessels...?

Anyway, just me ideas... this idea helps me enjoy the Enterprise episodes a lot more without worrying about continuity errors.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Simply not watching Enterprise is sufficient for me to avoid the continuity errors.

 

[Mr. Crane]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Simply not watching Enterprise is sufficient for me to avoid the continuity errors.

Nice! I really wish we could include elements from the novel Starfleet: Year One and "The Final Reflection" as "Canon" for what the early fleet was like in the Prime Universe, and leave Archer's Enterprise as part of the "Abramsverse"

 

[FlapJoy]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

I like the idea, and I think maybe everything changed in First Contact, I've floated this theory around TrekBBS:

---The evidence that gives credence to this theory is as follows: If you notice Captain Picard's wall of ships named Enterprise we see no representation of Archer’s NX-01 Enterprise, even though we see the Space Shuttle and the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise. (I know ST:Enterprise wasn’t on the air yet, ok? Stick with me) -So what if when Picard and the gang go back to protect Cochran’s first warp flight from the borg; Cochran, to honor his friends from the future and their gallant ship, decrees that the first warp 5 ship (when it’s built 100 some years later) be called Enterprise, when perhaps it was not initially christened that name in the original timeline and didn't appear on Picard’s wall of ships !! Another interesting note is that First Contact is the movie that depicts Picard smashing all his little gold ships in a rage against the machines (Borg frustration) perhaps as a symbolic statement that everything can change, including Enterprises legacy… giving further evidence that timelines can be, and have been, altered many times. Nothing is set in stone -or shiny gold plastic.---

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Doesn't the Abramsverse separate from the PrimeUniverse with the destruction of the USS Kelvin? If that is the case than the events that take place in Star Trek: Enterprise must belong to both universes.

 

[Treknut]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Star Trek Enterprise exists in both as in NuTrek Scotty makes a reference about Archers prized Beagle.

 

[FlapJoy]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Star Trek Enterprise exists in both as in NuTrek Scotty makes a reference about Archers prized Beagle.

Already regarded in OP:

...but that only means there was a version of Jonathan Archer in the Prime Universe - maybe he was a captain of on e of the first Daedalus-class vessels...?

Anyway, just me ideas... this idea helps me enjoy the Enterprise episodes a lot more without worrying about continuity errors.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Star Trek Enterprise exists in both as in NuTrek Scotty makes a reference about Archers prized Beagle.

But that Archer wasn't neccessarily Jonathan Archer. For example, Enterprise Archer might have had a son /or grandson who became an admiral and this son/grandson might have also loved beagles (having grown up with them).


Edited to add - because Jonathon Archer was born in 2111 and Montegomery Scott was not born until 2222 (111 years later) I think in all likelihood Scott was referring to another member of the Archer family.

 

[SonicRanger]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

If, say, Picard and crew don't travel back to San Francisco in 1893 in this new timeline, then aliens will keep eating 19th-century Californians without interference, surely having profound effects on the future.

So Nero's interference could have ripples back to 1893 and even farther.

In a Trek universe with rampant time travel, changing the future can actually change the past too.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

If, say, Picard and crew don't travel back to San Francisco in 1893 in this new timeline, then aliens will keep eating 19th-century Californians without interference, surely having profound effects on the future.

Very good point which I hadn't thought of. However if that had been the case isn't it surprising that Kirk's parents still met and had a son, that Momtgomery Scott, Pike, Spock etc were all born. Surely if the parting of the universes came in 1893 things would have been so different that it is unlikely that all these people would have been born?

Edited to add: Also, even if Picard had not gone back in Abrams universe he still would have gone back in the PrimeUniverse so the events of Star Trek: Enterprise still would have taken place in the PrimeUniverse.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Sorry, the logic of the Franchise - or the illogic of the Franchise - dictates that Star Trek Enterprise is part of the "Prime Universe."

It makes no real difference - it's all just Star Trek, after all, and at no point in Franchise history were all the stories and series completely consistent within themselves much less with one another.

 

[FlapJoy]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

If, say, Picard and crew don't travel back to San Francisco in 1893 in this new timeline, then aliens will keep eating 19th-century Californians without interference, surely having profound effects on the future.

So Nero's interference could have ripples back to 1893 and even farther.

In a Trek universe with rampant time travel, changing the future can actually change the past too.

Exactly !!!
Let's consider this: On a particular two part Voyager episode (Futures End) Captain Braxton of the 29th century crashes his "time ship" into 1967 Berkeley CA. Dirty hippie Henry Starling finds the timeship, and steals its technology to found his own company, Chronowerx, which leads to the computer revolution of the nineties. What if actions in the new film alter that history? A whole new book is written.

Ponder this: Scotty gives away the formula for transparent aluminum to any San Franciscan with a Mac (apparently Chronowerx eliminates Bill Gates influence in history, but not Steve Jobs importance) Anyway, how does that affect the timeline? Doctor McCoy says to Scotty:“How do you know that he wasn’t the one that invented it?”. That’s playing pretty fast and loose with possibly altering history. And don’t get me started on Gary Seven…

All of which leading to the Quantum Universes we saw in the TNG episode “Parallels”... and on and on.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

If, say, Picard and crew don't travel back to San Francisco in 1893 in this new timeline, then aliens will keep eating 19th-century Californians without interference, surely having profound effects on the future.

So Nero's interference could have ripples back to 1893 and even farther.

In a Trek universe with rampant time travel, changing the future can actually change the past too.

Exactly !!!
Let's consider this: On a particular two part Voyager episode (Futures End) Captain Braxton of the 29th century crashes his "time ship" into 1967 Berkeley CA. Dirty hippie Henry Starling finds the timeship, and steals its technology to found his own company, Chronowerx, which leads to the computer revolution of the nineties. What if actions in the new film alter that history? A whole new book is written.

Ponder this: Scotty gives away the formula for transparent aluminum to any San Franciscan with a Mac (apparently Chronowerx eliminates Bill Gates influence in history, but not Steve Jobs importance) Anyway, how does that affect the timeline? Doctor McCoy says to Scotty:“How do you know that he wasn’t the one that invented it?”. That’s playing pretty fast and loose with possibly altering history. And don’t get me started on Gary Seven…

All of which leading to the Quantum Universes we saw in the TNG episode “Parallels”... and on and on.

None of those events make changes to the PrimeUniverse as we know it. In the PrimeUniverse there was an Enterprise captain by Archer, Kirk's father didn't die on the Kelvin, Picard did go back to 1893. Those alternatives only create new alternative universe but do not change the PrimeUniverse.

 

[Gojira]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

I like the idea, and I think maybe everything changed in First Contact, I've floated this theory around TrekBBS:

---The evidence that gives credence to this theory is as follows: If you notice Captain Picard's wall of ships named Enterprise we see no representation of Archer’s NX-01 Enterprise, even though we see the Space Shuttle and the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise. (I know ST:Enterprise wasn’t on the air yet, ok? Stick with me) -So what if when Picard and the gang go back to protect Cochran’s first warp flight from the borg; Cochran, to honor his friends from the future and their gallant ship, decrees that the first warp 5 ship (when it’s built 100 some years later) be called Enterprise, when perhaps it was not initially christened that name in the original timeline and didn't appear on Picard’s wall of ships !! Another interesting note is that First Contact is the movie that depicts Picard smashing all his little gold ships in a rage against the machines (Borg frustration) perhaps as a symbolic statement that everything can change, including Enterprises legacy… giving further evidence that timelines can be, and have been, altered many times. Nothing is set in stone -or shiny gold plastic.---

This too has been my theory and I agree 100% I think Archer and crew did exist in the prime universe but we never saw them before. Then when Picard helped Cochrane with the first warp flight their interference changed the time line so the Enterprise series we saw was different than it happened in the Prime universe. Then Nero came and changed the events of the new Universe even more.

 

[FlapJoy]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

None of those events make changes to the PrimeUniverse as we know it. In the PrimeUniverse there was an Enterprise captain by Archer, Kirk's father didn't die on the Kelvin, Picard did go back to 1893. Those alternatives only change events in other universes not the PrimeUniverse.

No they don't change the Prime Trek universe per se, but they might change the Abrams universe long before the Narada even appears and alters that timeline... the ripple effects exist.

But as far as ST:Enterprise is concerned, they are in a bubble of sorts, they could exist in Abrams universe. And let's not forget, most of that series was basically about time travel and altered futures. My point is that I don't think anything can be held to canon anymore. It's possible that little changes to the timeline happen constantly (even to the Prime Trek universe), so why get bogged down by it all

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

There has been alternative timelines all though the Star Trek series so I imagine an argument could be made for all timelines being canon.

Edited to add:

For example we have these three alternative timelines (from the original series)

a) The timeline in which Edith Keeler was run over by a car and died without ever having any contact with anyone from the future
b) The timeline in which McCoy saved Edith Keeler's life
c) The timeline in which McCoy was prevented from saving Edith's life.

Though Kirk thought that he had restored the original timeline when he stopped McCoy from saving Keeler he actually created a new one in which there was only very subtle changes from the first timeline but significant changes from the second timeline.

 

[FlapJoy]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

There has been alternative timelines all though the Star Trek series so I imagine an argument could be made for all timelines being canon.

I agree!!

 

[Mr. Crane]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Sorry, the logic of the Franchise - or the illogic of the Franchise - dictates that Star Trek Enterprise is part of the "Prime Universe."

It makes no real difference - it's all just Star Trek, after all, and at no point in Franchise history were all the stories and series completely consistent within themselves much less with one another.

I don't understand this omnipotent "logic of the Franchise" you speak of... where is it ever explicitly stated that Enterprise happens in the "Prime Universe"? There is evidence that it could happen in an alternate reality, like the new alternate reality...

Even the Riker and Troi from "TATV" might have been from one of the parallel quantum dimensions we saw in TNG "Parallels"... There is televised evidence in this episode to support the idea that the entire Enterprise series could be a parallel dimension - quantum physics.

 

[Mr. Crane]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

Sorry, the logic of the Franchise - or the illogic of the Franchise - dictates that Star Trek Enterprise is part of the "Prime Universe."

It makes no real difference - it's all just Star Trek, after all, and at no point in Franchise history were all the stories and series completely consistent within themselves much less with one another.

There has been alternative timelines all though the Star Trek series so I imagine an argument could be made for all timelines being canon.

Edited to add:

For example we have these three alternative timelines (from the original series)

a) The timeline in which Edith Keeler was run over by a car and died without ever having any contact with anyone from the future
b) The timeline in which McCoy saved Edith Keeler's life
c) The timeline in which McCoy was prevented from saving Edith's life.

Though Kirk thought that he had restored the original timeline when he stopped McCoy from saving Keeler he actually created a new one in which there was only very subtle changes from the first timeline but significant changes from the second timeline.

Good idea!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Star Trek: Enterprise - Part of the Abramsverse,not the PrimeUnive

I don't understand this omnipotent "logic of the Franchise" you speak of... where is it ever explicitly stated that Enterprise happens in the "Prime Universe"?

Bad logic, there - no one ever thought of the "Prime Universe" versus the "Abrams Universe" until this movie was made - and in fact, the very term "Prime Universe" has never been explicitly mentioned. The writers may have used it as shorthand when talking about the movie, or fans may have coined it, but the term doesn't appear in the movie. Nimoy is simply credited as "Spock Prime" at the end.

There is evidence that it could happen in an alternate reality, like the new alternate reality...

Nope, it was never the intention of the studio or the Trek producers to do a series about an "alternate universe," and the whole idea that changing the past causes the creation of a new "alternate universe" rather than altering the "real" one has no significant precedent in Trek's treatment of time travel prior to the new film.

The whole notion really exists only as a fannish attempt to make everything fit together perfectly, and nothing about Star Trek has ever fit together perfectly - it started to contradict itself with the second episode made.

Of course, since it's all made up and there's neither any final word or any right answer, every viewer can believe whatever they like and be right.