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Captain Jellico: Totally Awesome, or Lame?

Captain Jellico - Awesome, or Awful?

  • He's a good Captain! I'd serve under his command.

    Votes: 84 61.8%
  • No way! What a jerk!

    Votes: 52 38.2%

  • Total voters
    136
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I don't think Jellico is that gung-ho, or at least as gung-ho as some people here believe him to be (alright, he's definitely moreso than Picard). If he were, he would've engaged the Cardassian fleet instead of using various tactics, bluffs, and clandestine methods to force their hand (and we wouldn't have gotten Jellico's excellent dressing down at the hands of Riker, either).

I've been rewatching some early TNG episodes, and Picard strikes me as remarkably similar to Jellico. He's just as strict and intimidating, and it's clear that everyone feels the need to put some distance between them and their captain. He seems more like a disciplinarian than an actual explorer at times.

Of course, when Q did run into someone more militaristic than Picard, Q got socked in the nose :)

I suppose Jellico could be seen as what if Picard had never loosened up after Locutus.

Picard was an explorer but he went into disciplinarian mode whenever some dumbass interfered with his plans. Mostly he was calm and collected, in the first season he was probably a bit stressed about commanding a galaxy class starship but after that he relaxed into his role. Anyway Captain Jellicos style of command was not needed in the 24th century, cowboy diplomacy and miltaristic muscle flexing,

But not necessarily covert spy and standoff missions, and I wouldn't get an explorer to do that kind of work. Likewise, I wouldn't send someone like Jellico to a diplomacy mission as well. A balance, a moderation, between peace and defense is something we've consistently seen in Trek, knowing when to talk and when to fight, and in this case it was exemplified with two men who got along and respected each other well enough, but had different styles.

And frankly, in the first few seasons, how many times did we see the Enterprise engage in the sort of mission like Chain of Command? We never did. Yet when the time came to face the Borg or the Romulans, Picard easily adopted a more military mind without flinching.

As well, there's a very good reason why Picard was specifically chosen for such a clandestine mission in the first place, in that Picard's style of leadership, as nuanced as it is, was a good counterpart to Jellico's oversight. After all, Jellico succeeded in his mission and rescued Picard, all without firing a single shot from his end. If his command style is obsolete in the context of Trek's 24th century, then just how did he accomplish that feat? Compare that with nearly every rescue mission we've seen in Trek which involved, surprise, guns blazing, from Kirk to Janeway and Archer.

you see this is why aliens haven't contacted us yet, because we have too many captain jellicos in our societies! If you want excellent combat strategy then Datas style of command would be much more preferable, ie purely logical.
First off, don't you think this whole sweeping generalization in itself is a bit arrogant and unenlightened? It may be a matter of perspective, but to have one human assume that he has the intellectual authority to look down upon the rest of his own people in judgment (to show that one human is closer to an alien perspective than the rest) shows that humanity has a long way to go in overcoming smug superiority. If and when humanity means an alien culture, it will be a collective effort.

And within the context of Trek, the Federation was founded in part as a collective defense and resource pool for the founding worlds. Even since the beginning, military in some form or way was part of the plan. Earth itself was chosen as the center because it was, politically and militarily speaking, neutral to the other three worlds. The other three worlds had been at war with each other in some form or way before Earth came along. Admiral Forrest is closer to Jellico in command style, and he was instrumental in improving human/Vulcan relations.

Additionally, at the time of Chain of Command, Data still had much to learn about command, intuition, and instinct. This is why whenever there was a battle, Picard still chose to put Riker in command, when it's well within his power to appoint Data as battle commander (like how Kirk made Chekov in command once or twice over Scotty).

Fair enough. Though Jellico is the ultimate micro manager and was the wrong man for negotiating with the cardassians. In relation to the alien first contact point, no its not smug superiority, its just fact if we're talking about a TNG style alien race (who knows whats out there and perhaps the militaristic bent we're on might prove beneficial). Essentially I don't think anyone is any less inferior or superior, but what I will lament is a pattern in societies to cow to the demands of authoritarianism. Independent thinking is a quality I want to see come to fruition, while I may tolerate alternative view points ref militarism, support for the status quo, I don't have to like them.

When I think of Datas strategic talent the first episode that comes to mind is the one where he exposes the romulan warbirds with the tachyon beam or whatever he did to achieve that result. I would imagine that in a war scenario he would prove extremely advantageous given his ability to process info quickly, use scientific knowledge to his advantage etc. It would be like gary kasparov against deep blue when he lost.
 
^And every time we know Jellico was up against the cardassians, we know he was able to end/prevent a conflict...
 
I just rewatched 'Chain of Command' for the first time since my teenage years, and was surprised by how much I liked him (my younger self didn't). I liked his no-nonsense, snappy style of command.

Though I don't see why he needed to ditch Picard's fish.

Your opinons!


total jerk AND great captain. that's why the character worked so well.
 
There's a reason why the show was called "Star Trek" not "Star Wars."

Sadly, some of you guys don't seem to grasp that essential point.

My reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis might well constitute a "red herring" but if so it is no more a red herring than others' contributions about their experiences in the U.S. military of the 20th or early 21st century.

Still, given some of the comments since, it is clear that at least a few posters are channelling their inner Curtis LeMay.

That's neither left-wing nor right-wing - that's just MAD.
 
There's a reason why the show was called "Star Trek" not "Star Wars."

Sadly, some of you guys don't seem to grasp that essential point.

I understand that just fine. I've seen the episode more than once. Says "Star Trek" right there in the opening sequence.

My reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis might well constitute a "red herring" but if so it is no more a red herring than others' contributions about their experiences in the U.S. military of the 20th or early 21st century.

Actually, it is more of a red herring, for exactly the reason I stated. Naval commanders would have more autonomy either before or after the era of the Cuban Missile Crisis than during, so anecdotal evidence of how commanders operate in this or most of the last century are perfectly valid given the nature of the debate, which is "Which command style is better: Picard's or Jellico's?" You can only evaluate the styles in units that aren't being micromanaged from their nation's capital, and since we have such units operating right now, there are plenty of examples to offer in support of both sides of the argument.

Still, given some of the comments since, it is clear that at least a few posters are channelling their inner Curtis LeMay.

Curtis LeMay was right. Peace was his profession. It was also Jellico's mission in the episode, and they both did their jobs the same way: they forced the enemy to recognize that acting on hostile intent would be more costly for the aggressors than the defenders.


That's neither left-wing nor right-wing - that's just MAD.

Nope. The phrase MAD is about as left wing as you can get when discussing war.
 
There's a reason why the show was called "Star Trek" not "Star Wars."

Sadly, some of you guys don't seem to grasp that essential point.

My reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis might well constitute a "red herring" but if so it is no more a red herring than others' contributions about their experiences in the U.S. military of the 20th or early 21st century.

Still, given some of the comments since, it is clear that at least a few posters are channelling their inner Curtis LeMay.

That's neither left-wing nor right-wing - that's just MAD.

You are enlightened.
 
^but he was the Captain, why should he have to sit down and mollify his crew by saying

"Now listen I'm going to be abit more militaristic than what you might be useful"

At most he should have said "I'm the Captain, deal with it"

That's what he did in the episode. It did not endear him to those under his command. A leader needs a good working relationship with his subordinates if he actually expects to be a good leader.
 
^

And it didn't help that the crew and Jellico simply didn't have the time to form that working relationship and to adjust their styles to work companionably.
 
That's what he did in the episode. It did not endear him to those under his command. A leader needs a good working relationship with his subordinates if he actually expects to be a good leader.

Actually, when I saw that episode, I was left with the impression that the crew of the Enterprise-D was in desperate need of a court-martial, reduction in rank, or even outright booted from Starfleet. They were spoiled little brats who were willing to get everyone around them killed because they weren't getting their proper nappy times.
 
^but he was the Captain, why should he have to sit down and mollify his crew by saying

"Now listen I'm going to be abit more militaristic than what you might be useful"

At most he should have said "I'm the Captain, deal with it"

That's what he did in the episode. It did not endear him to those under his command. A leader needs a good working relationship with his subordinates if he actually expects to be a good leader.

In which case after that mission if he was still Captain, he should have pulled up to the nearest Starbase and told everyone on the senior staff who had a problem to get the hell off his ship...
 
That's what he did in the episode. It did not endear him to those under his command. A leader needs a good working relationship with his subordinates if he actually expects to be a good leader.

Actually, when I saw that episode, I was left with the impression that the crew of the Enterprise-D was in desperate need of a court-martial, reduction in rank, or even outright booted from Starfleet. They were spoiled little brats who were willing to get everyone around them killed because they weren't getting their proper nappy times.

No kidding!
 
There's a reason why the show was called "Star Trek" not "Star Wars."

Sadly, some of you guys don't seem to grasp that essential point.

I understand that just fine. I've seen the episode more than once. Says "Star Trek" right there in the opening sequence.

My reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis might well constitute a "red herring" but if so it is no more a red herring than others' contributions about their experiences in the U.S. military of the 20th or early 21st century.

Actually, it is more of a red herring, for exactly the reason I stated. Naval commanders would have more autonomy either before or after the era of the Cuban Missile Crisis than during, so anecdotal evidence of how commanders operate in this or most of the last century are perfectly valid given the nature of the debate, which is "Which command style is better: Picard's or Jellico's?" You can only evaluate the styles in units that aren't being micromanaged from their nation's capital, and since we have such units operating right now, there are plenty of examples to offer in support of both sides of the argument.

Still, given some of the comments since, it is clear that at least a few posters are channelling their inner Curtis LeMay.

Curtis LeMay was right. Peace was his profession. It was also Jellico's mission in the episode, and they both did their jobs the same way: they forced the enemy to recognize that acting on hostile intent would be more costly for the aggressors than the defenders.


That's neither left-wing nor right-wing - that's just MAD.

Nope. The phrase MAD is about as left wing as you can get when discussing war.

You and I clearly have a divergence of opinion as to what is meant by the terms peace and peacemaker.

For me, Star Trek at its best, is epitomised by the following quote (and given my reference to the Cuban Crisis, I'm keeping it in the context and ethos that we all know spurred Gene Roddenberry to create TOS in the first place):

What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children-not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women, not merely peace in our time but peace for all time. - John F. Kennedy (June 10, 1963)

Describing Curtis LeMay as a professional peacemaker within this framework (or ANY framework for that matter) is a travesty - but I think that you already know that, so I won't waste any more time trying to dissuade you from what we both recognise is a ludicrous assertion.

BTW, Mutual Assured Destruction was - as I would also hope that you know - was official USG policy for many, many, years. The American military hierarchy didn't need Jane Fonda and her left wing loonie friends to make that one up - the Joint Chiefs and supporting forces created and implemented it all by themselves.

And if you think that the touchdown was scored by joining Jellico to LeMay at the ethical hip (personally I'm not a fan of Jellico but I wouldn't wish that on anyone) then I'm afraid that you've sadly misunderstood the entire ST concept.
 
^but he was the Captain, why should he have to sit down and mollify his crew by saying

"Now listen I'm going to be abit more militaristic than what you might be useful"

At most he should have said "I'm the Captain, deal with it"

That's what he did in the episode. It did not endear him to those under his command. A leader needs a good working relationship with his subordinates if he actually expects to be a good leader.

In which case after that mission if he was still Captain, he should have pulled up to the nearest Starbase and told everyone on the senior staff who had a problem to get the hell off his ship...

Well we don't know whether Jellico would or wouldn't do that.

Personally, when I first saw the episode as a kid, I didn't like Jellico and thought he was unnecessarily harsh. But after viewing it again after many years, I realized that it wasn't actually Jellico's fault, nor was it the fault of Riker and the senior staff. They had two different styles of working and in a short-time of being introduced were asked to perform against the odds in a delicate situation. The knee-jerk reaction on both their parts to the other was probably the shock of seeing a completely different style of functioning that they were not used to. Riker & co were used to Picard's hands-off approach, and Jellico was used to keeping a close eye on his crew and wanting some things done his way that he felt was better. Remember they all were working toward the same overall goals: withdrawal of the Cardassians, getting Picard back and averting the escalation to war. They just had different approaches to it, and Jellico and Riker&co needed to realize that they needed to set aside what they each were accustomed to in order to get the job done, which they did eventually.

Under different circumstances, Jellico would have had the time to allow his crew to adjust to his style of command and for him to have made some adjustments to the style of functioning of the crew.
 
^I guess a good analogy would be Jimmy Carter vs. Ronald Reagan.

Jimmy was very hands-on and detailed, working himself to death trying to run everything his way. He took on a lot of responsabilities--some might say too much--and was all "details, details, details".

The Gipper was more hands-off, picking the best folks, in his mind, for leadership positions, and pretty much letting them run their departments on their own. He gave them the basic agenda, but left the details to them.

I guess, in a way, Jellico's more like Carter, while Picard's more like Reagan--as far as that subject's concerned.
 
Which is odd considering Picard's portrayal strikes me as more Liberal and Jelico's more Conservative.
 
hmm... good analogy.

Although about Jellico being conservative, maybe it appeared that way in that episode. We got to see so much more of Picard (almost every episode for 7 seasons), and only one episode of Jellico so I don't think we really know much more about the depth of his onscreen character. (There are more portrayals of him in TrekLit). :)
 
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