Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it
- Thread starter tomalak301
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Thirded!
Just watched it last night. Definitely one of the three or four best of the series.
Just watched it last night. Definitely one of the three or four best of the series.
Way to raise expectations, guys! 
^
It's like a good seduction.
It's like a good seduction.
The Long, Twilight Struggle
Holy freaking crap. I had to remind myself that this wasn't the season 2 finale because it sure felt like it. What an emotional ride this episode was. It had everything I expect from Babylon 5 and then some. Yeah in other episodes you had great political intrigue and action, and some intelligent writing, but this episode took all that and rose up about 10 levels. Where should I start talking about this episode when there was so much that happened.
That was such an emotional way to end the Narn/Centauri conflict. The Narn thinking they could extend the war and the Centauri going on the ultimate offensive on the Narn Homeworld. All this season we've kind of been on the sidelines of the conflict, hearing reports about how the Centauri were annihilating the Narns. This one we were thrown right into it and watching the Narn Homeworld being bombarded was just heart wrenching. I ask, what did the Narns do to deserve this, and what the hell are up with the Centauri. I think the look on Londo's face as he was watching said it all. It was the look of a man who pretty much sold his soul to the devil and I think if he hadn't realized it before, he definitely does now.
Then you had the thing in the council with Londo talking about the demands of the Narn Surrender. Katsulas played that part so well (And unfortunately it's too late to talk about awards for this series) that that is award worthy. That speech he had about regaining freedom might be the best G'Kar moment of the series so far. Also, Sherdian's retort was classic Sherdian.
As for Epsilon 3, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that developments from previous episodes that you think are just one and done are being brought back. Neroon was brought back in "All Alone" (Which really excited me that JMS proved he's not dropping much of anything and that every episode, no matter how good or bad, is important to the overall scope of the series) and it was awesome to see the Planet become a major player in the series, as I expect they will be. Sheridan just made an alliance with a very powerful source, and it made what he said at the end all that much better.
Speaking of the end, that was just another brilliant thing about this episode. This one is a downer in so many ways, seeing the destruction of Narn, G'Kar being kicked off the council, that that ending was so uplifting and so freaking cool that I did think this was the season finale. Babylon 5 getting ready for the war ahead and becoming all that much important with the Rangers revealing themselves and then Sheridan with that speech was another classic Sheridan moment.
If the last two episodes are anywhere near this brilliant, I will be impressed. By far my favorite episode of the series.
Holy freaking crap. I had to remind myself that this wasn't the season 2 finale because it sure felt like it. What an emotional ride this episode was. It had everything I expect from Babylon 5 and then some. Yeah in other episodes you had great political intrigue and action, and some intelligent writing, but this episode took all that and rose up about 10 levels. Where should I start talking about this episode when there was so much that happened.
That was such an emotional way to end the Narn/Centauri conflict. The Narn thinking they could extend the war and the Centauri going on the ultimate offensive on the Narn Homeworld. All this season we've kind of been on the sidelines of the conflict, hearing reports about how the Centauri were annihilating the Narns. This one we were thrown right into it and watching the Narn Homeworld being bombarded was just heart wrenching. I ask, what did the Narns do to deserve this, and what the hell are up with the Centauri. I think the look on Londo's face as he was watching said it all. It was the look of a man who pretty much sold his soul to the devil and I think if he hadn't realized it before, he definitely does now.
Then you had the thing in the council with Londo talking about the demands of the Narn Surrender. Katsulas played that part so well (And unfortunately it's too late to talk about awards for this series) that that is award worthy. That speech he had about regaining freedom might be the best G'Kar moment of the series so far. Also, Sherdian's retort was classic Sherdian.
As for Epsilon 3, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that developments from previous episodes that you think are just one and done are being brought back. Neroon was brought back in "All Alone" (Which really excited me that JMS proved he's not dropping much of anything and that every episode, no matter how good or bad, is important to the overall scope of the series) and it was awesome to see the Planet become a major player in the series, as I expect they will be. Sheridan just made an alliance with a very powerful source, and it made what he said at the end all that much better.
Speaking of the end, that was just another brilliant thing about this episode. This one is a downer in so many ways, seeing the destruction of Narn, G'Kar being kicked off the council, that that ending was so uplifting and so freaking cool that I did think this was the season finale. Babylon 5 getting ready for the war ahead and becoming all that much important with the Rangers revealing themselves and then Sheridan with that speech was another classic Sheridan moment.
If the last two episodes are anywhere near this brilliant, I will be impressed. By far my favorite episode of the series.
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One of my favorite moments in the whole series is Londo looking out that window. Here's a person who has become very different from the jovial person in season 1. The look on his face says it all as you said. It's the tragedy of Londo Mollari; that we reap what we sow.
I guess he liked it...
Yeah that speech of G'Kar in the council chamber is epic on so many levels. I especially like that long shot of G'Kar speaking, with Londo in the background. Londo several times gets ready to interrupt, but he cannot bring himself to do it. Great acting from both.
I think the last four episodes were aired too late in the season to be eligible for Emmy nomination (due to B5's odd scheduling at the time), otherwise I'm sure "The Long, Twilight Struggle" would have been a strong contender to "The Coming of Shadows". (An episode it bookends quite nicely, BTW)
"The Coming of Shadows", "The Long Twilight Struggle", and the finale are my top 3 episodes of the season. But if I was forced to pick the absolute best one, it would probably be probably this episode.
Yeah that speech of G'Kar in the council chamber is epic on so many levels. I especially like that long shot of G'Kar speaking, with Londo in the background. Londo several times gets ready to interrupt, but he cannot bring himself to do it. Great acting from both.
I think the last four episodes were aired too late in the season to be eligible for Emmy nomination (due to B5's odd scheduling at the time), otherwise I'm sure "The Long, Twilight Struggle" would have been a strong contender to "The Coming of Shadows". (An episode it bookends quite nicely, BTW)
"The Coming of Shadows", "The Long Twilight Struggle", and the finale are my top 3 episodes of the season. But if I was forced to pick the absolute best one, it would probably be probably this episode.
This thread has been a trip down Memory Lane. I used to have this series on VHS (recorded) a long time ago. Ah, well.
My fave moment from Season Two is still the "one moment of perfect beauty." Still sends chills down my spine.
My fave moment from Season Two is still the "one moment of perfect beauty." Still sends chills down my spine.
Comes the Inquisitor
This episode was interesting. It's not nearly as good as some of the episodes this season, but it was still quite enjoyable in furthering the arc of the coming war with the Darkness. However, I think I wanted them to go further with the character study of Delenn. The Inquisitor really was portrayed as a bully, but I think I wanted it to go deeper and maybe answer some of the questions that was posed to her in "And now for a Word." Just being proved you're the chosen one by freely sacrificing yourself didn't feel enough, especially given the question of "Who are you?" The stuff with the Narn was pretty good, in that it gave G'Kar a new direction now he's no longer ambassador.
This episode was interesting. It's not nearly as good as some of the episodes this season, but it was still quite enjoyable in furthering the arc of the coming war with the Darkness. However, I think I wanted them to go further with the character study of Delenn. The Inquisitor really was portrayed as a bully, but I think I wanted it to go deeper and maybe answer some of the questions that was posed to her in "And now for a Word." Just being proved you're the chosen one by freely sacrificing yourself didn't feel enough, especially given the question of "Who are you?" The stuff with the Narn was pretty good, in that it gave G'Kar a new direction now he's no longer ambassador.
Oh, it was a fine episode, and the twist was nice, but I guess I was hoping for a bit more.
Keep watching. I want to read your final reactions when you finish the show.
Thank you for posting that clip. It actually reminded me of something I want to write in my review of the finale
Of course. This thread is fun and this series is awesome. Anyway:
The Fall of Night
So Kosh is an Angel, IE being of light. It was so great seeing what he looked like and that entire scene was a very magical moment of the series. I wanted to see what Kosh was like outside the encounter suit and this episode did it. Of course given what we know, do the Shadows know? That's something to keep an eye out in 2260.
What a day of Babylon 5. First was "The Long Twilight Struggle" which I think is my favorite episode of the series so far, and then this one which was a culmination of the entire season with the Galaxy at war and realizing that peace had failed. The scene where B5 was attacked and one of the pointed things tore off was really cool, but that Centauri ship exploded and I was like "oh shit." This show once again gets turned upside down and the stakes are raised a lot higher. Still, I think the thing I loved most about this episode wasn't the culmination of the season as a whole, but it was some of the scenery, such as Sheridan's fall, the attack at Babylon 5, seeing Kosh. There really is almost a sense of beauty in the Darkness (As a previous episode said) in this episode and it's a fantastic finale.
Overall, I wouldn't say Season 2 was better than Season 1, but more of a building on what came before. I'm looking at this series like a novel, with each season being a chapter and each chapter building on one another. It's like reading a book. You don't want to say withen the book I like this chapter over another. Of course as the book develops, you're going to like each advancing chapter but that doesn't mean the preceeding ones are less important. That's basically how I see this series. This season was great in that while it keeps building and adding new things, there are still so many revelations that just help tie things together.
I will say too that I love these characters. Ivanova has grown so much (And thank god she never had her hair like she did in the title sequence
). Franklin came back on good terms, Garibaldi has aways been cool, and Sheridan kicks ass. I think the two characters who I've loved watching this year though are Londo and G'Kar. From Londo's dealings with Morden and his actions throughout the season, especailly in "Coming of the Shadows" it's been fun watching this guy fall into darkness while at the same time really caring about him. I mentioned earlier that I loved the scene with him on the cruiser watching the bombardment of the Narn homeworld and that might be Londo's shining moment of the season. As for G'Kar, man can this guy catch a break? I remember he was all smug and arrogent at the beginning, and now he's just barely holding on trying to form the resistance. These are journies worth watching and I look forward to what 2260 brings. Babylon 5 has truly become a place of hope and victory. I can only ask what will season 3 bring. Also, Earth signed a treaty with Centauri for non-agression. Given what Refa said, I doubt that treaty has any legs to stand on. As for Nightwatch, talk about big brother watching you.
As for Top 5 and bottom three this season:
Top 5 (In Order)
The Long Twilight Struggle
The Fall of Night
All Alone in the Night
The Coming of Shadows
In the Shadow of Z'ha'Dum (Feel bad leaving the first half out but that's how great this season has been)
Bottom 3 (In Order)
Devided Loyalties
There All the Honor Lies
Knives
Matters of Honor
Nice premiere episode. Really a set up for the season has a whole, but there were some good moments. Unlike Keffer, I'm glad we're getting a main Ranger to keep a close ties on them. Cole will be a great character I think and it showed here with the fight scene. Some stuff raises new questions, such as the Shadows association with Earth and what is on the other side.
Loved seeing the White Star in action. I really could make a DS9 joke, but we've been there and done that and this thread is going so well. I will say though that the menuver to activate the jump gate inside the jump gate was some good piloting. It's actually nice to see Sheridan be a captain again. Yeah his job on B5 is important, but last season it seemed like the whole desk job was a strain. Here we saw John in action and all I can say is I would love to serve under a captain like John Sheridan. Looking forward to seeing him more in space in the future.
Nice premiere episode. Really a set up for the season has a whole, but there were some good moments. Unlike Keffer, I'm glad we're getting a main Ranger to keep a close ties on them. Cole will be a great character I think and it showed here with the fight scene. Some stuff raises new questions, such as the Shadows association with Earth and what is on the other side.
Loved seeing the White Star in action. I really could make a DS9 joke, but we've been there and done that and this thread is going so well.
I will say though that the menuver to activate the jump gate inside the jump gate was some good piloting. It's actually nice to see Sheridan be a captain again. Yeah his job on B5 is important, but last season it seemed like the whole desk job was a strain. Here we saw John in action and all I can say is I would love to serve under a captain like John Sheridan. Looking forward to seeing him more in space in the future.
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About stuff up to "Fall of Night"...
One of my favorite parts of "The Fall of Night" is a scene near the end... Things are going going to hell all over, and a Drazi and a Narn argue about what they saw in the garden. Yet one says "It doesn't matter... It is a good sign for the coming year". (or something like that) That juxapositioning of darkness and hope is frequent in B5, as you noted at the end of your "Twilight Struggle" review.
I love the pacing of the episode too. After the Centauri ship blows up (2nd for the year in B5 space, don't they get the hint?), the episode seems over... And then suddenly we get a whole new action scene, and probably the biggest reveal of the show yet.
As you probably can tell by now, change is the only constant in the B5 universe. The Narn-Centauri war, once started seemed certain to remain a backdrop of the show for seasons to come... But BAM it was over. There really was (and is for you, I'm sure) a feeling of watching something that changed in front of our eyes from week to week. For us early fans back then, the contrast with for example the start of ST:VOY could not have been starker. It was certainly clear now that B5 was a whole different animal than the ST at the time - for Good AND Bad. But the concept of a dynamic and dangerous universe was perhaps the greatest factor in converting me to a huge fan of the show.
And that change will continue... The show kept evolving for the entire five years. But I would of course be lying if every change was welcome fans in general. But I guess you'll have to find out.
About S3... It probably has my favorite opening sequence... The jump point faces might be cheesy but I love it.
One of my favorite parts of "The Fall of Night" is a scene near the end... Things are going going to hell all over, and a Drazi and a Narn argue about what they saw in the garden. Yet one says "It doesn't matter... It is a good sign for the coming year". (or something like that) That juxapositioning of darkness and hope is frequent in B5, as you noted at the end of your "Twilight Struggle" review.
I love the pacing of the episode too. After the Centauri ship blows up (2nd for the year in B5 space, don't they get the hint?)
, the episode seems over... And then suddenly we get a whole new action scene, and probably the biggest reveal of the show yet.As you probably can tell by now, change is the only constant in the B5 universe. The Narn-Centauri war, once started seemed certain to remain a backdrop of the show for seasons to come... But BAM it was over. There really was (and is for you, I'm sure) a feeling of watching something that changed in front of our eyes from week to week. For us early fans back then, the contrast with for example the start of ST:VOY could not have been starker. It was certainly clear now that B5 was a whole different animal than the ST at the time - for Good AND Bad. But the concept of a dynamic and dangerous universe was perhaps the greatest factor in converting me to a huge fan of the show.
And that change will continue... The show kept evolving for the entire five years. But I would of course be lying if every change was welcome fans in general. But I guess you'll have to find out.
About S3... It probably has my favorite opening sequence... The jump point faces might be cheesy but I love it.
About S3... It probably has my favorite opening sequence... The jump point faces might be cheesy but I love it.
Well, the opening sequence is just as important as the show itself so of the three, I think I like Season 2 better. It still had that familiar theme, and it was ratcheted up as there was more of the tone of tension. Then you go through the jump gate and it was just impressively done. As for the season 3 theme, It's alright. Will take some time to get used to.
One thing that I found a bit frustrating that each season of B5 always seemed to take several episodes to "find its way"... I'm not sure why. S1-S3 certainly follow that pattern. Sure there are good moments, and stuff that helps build the momentum, but much of it seems like "filler" at times. IMO episode 306 ("Dust to Dust") is the first really strong episode of S3. But the real fun starts in Ep 308 ("Messages From Earth")...
But more about that when you get there.
But more about that when you get there.
One thing that I found a bit frustrating that each season of B5 always seemed to take several episodes to "find its way"... I'm not sure why. S1-S3 certainly follow that pattern. Sure there are good moments, and stuff that helps build the momentum, but much of it seems like "filler" at times. IMO episode 306 ("Dust to Dust") is the first really strong episode of S3. But the real fun starts in Ep 308 ("Messages From Earth")...
But more about that when you get there.
Sometimes you need the filler just to make all those great episodes that much better. I mean one could say MOH was a filler episode but it introduced so many new things and pretty much set the season in motion. It's probably not going to be the best episode I see for 2260, but it's probably going to be very essential down the road.
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