Tell E.T. skeptics where to stick it

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Intelligent life evolving on other worlds is not an unreasonable possibility.

It's not at all unreasonable. The likelihood that we'll never know or communicate in any way with such is, I think, much much lower than most folks who give it any thought at all seem to assume.

In terms of what the potential variations of life itself, and certainly intelligence, might be we're extrapolating so far from a single instance - a single isolated system that we still don't understand nearly as well as we could.

 

[SilentP]

I do not believe that alien life-forms have ever visited Earth. The truth is that we are an insignificant species from an insignificant star system in an insignificant galaxy, we're not worth the energy it would take to travel the vast distances involved.

True, we may be insignificant in terms of how much of the universe we can influence, but that doesn't mean that aliens wouldn't come over. For all we know, there may be species that travel around the galaxy looking for other life, just because they want to see other life.

Technology aside, if sentient life exists outside of our system, there's no way we can predict what they might hold what they hold dear, what concepts or principles may be important to them. For all we know, there may be species trapsing around the galaxy looking for life, solely thinking to themselves "why not? when it comes to the question of space travel, not giving a care for what problems would face them.

 

[Meredith]

I would worry more about the creatures evolved from the cinosaurs who live underground.

 

[TheGodBen]

True, we may be insignificant in terms of how much of the universe we can influence, but that doesn't mean that aliens wouldn't come over. For all we know, there may be species that travel around the galaxy looking for other life, just because they want to see other life.

But the problem is energy expenditure and the shear amount of time it would take for them to get here. If we imagine that there is another intelligent life-form 50 light-years away and they receive one of the SETI signals we sent out and decide to come and visit, they might be looking at a 150 year round-trip. They would most likely have to stock the ship with enough food, fuel and various other supplies to last for over a century because there might not be a place to resupply on the way.

Would all that time and energy really be worth it so that they could come here to learn about American Idol and our petty nationalistic struggles? And what if they got here to find out we died 20 years prior in an horrific war? Unless our planet really does have the Ark of the Forerunners buried somewhere under the surface then I don't think we should expect aliens to take enough of an interest to bother visiting us.

 

[FordSVT]

True, we may be insignificant in terms of how much of the universe we can influence, but that doesn't mean that aliens wouldn't come over. For all we know, there may be species that travel around the galaxy looking for other life, just because they want to see other life.

But the problem is energy expenditure and the shear amount of time it would take for them to get here. If we imagine that there is another intelligent life-form 50 light-years away and they receive one of the SETI signals we sent out and decide to come and visit, they might be looking at a 150 year round-trip. They would most likely have to stock the ship with enough food, fuel and various other supplies to last for over a century because there might not be a place to resupply on the way.

Would all that time and energy really be worth it so that they could come here to learn about American Idol and our petty nationalistic struggles? And what if they got here to find out we died 20 years prior in an horrific war? Unless our planet really does have the Ark of the Forerunners buried somewhere under the surface then I don't think we should expect aliens to take enough of an interest to bother visiting us.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions about alien technology and patterns of thinking.

What if the aliens have a natural lifespan of 600 years and can put themselves in a state of suspended animation? What if they can create wormholes that allow superluminal travel?

You're making the assumption that the aliens are just like us, and that they have our level of technology. Why would they?

 

[Zachary Smith]

^^

For some reason a lot of people have that attitude: If WE haven't figured out how to do it, it CAN'T be done.

So what if OUR current understanding says "such and such" CAN'T be done? That's what we "know" and where we are today. What will we have discovered in five thousand years? And how many possible civilizations might be at LEAST five thousand years ahead of us? No, it won't change the laws of physics (as we understand them to be) but I actually believe there will come a time when we can begin to manipulate the laws of physics in ways we cannot conceive of right now.

 

[TheGodBen]

I suppose it is possible that there are intelligent races out there which are billions of years old and they have developed the technology to harvest the energy of stars, and they have somehow developed a means of reaching Earth in an instant. I don't think any such race would be interested in us though.

 

[Nardpuncher]

"UFO nuts"? Please explain why the acceptance of the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe--something that has already happened here--is such an unreasonable consideration as to be considered "nuts" by you.

I never once said there isn't intelligent life in the universe. Read more carefully.

Who are the "UFO nuts" you referred to?

People that think spaceships come here regularly and that it's covered up.

 

[scotthm]

Intelligent life evolving on other worlds is not an unreasonable possibility.

It's not at all unreasonable. The likelihood that we'll never know or communicate in any way with such is, I think, much much lower than most folks who give it any thought at all seem to assume.

Which is why most people couldn't care less whether there is life on other worlds or not. Our paths will never cross.

---------------

 

[FordSVT]

I suppose it is possible that there are intelligent races out there which are billions of years old and they have developed the technology to harvest the energy of stars, and they have somehow developed a means of reaching Earth in an instant. I don't think any such race would be interested in us though.

And now you're assigning human characteristics to an alien race again.

And even if they did: we get into tiny, expensive submarines to look at invertebrates on the ocean floor. We send probes to other planets in the hope of finding signs of the tiniest, most primitive life forms. Hell, we'd be happy to find fossils of tiny, primitive life forms.

Why wouldn't they be interested in us? It doesn't even have to be a species-wide interest, they could be the alien equivalent of a research team or missionaries or a department in whatever form of government they have that handles alien contact. I have no friggin' clue. However, I'm not going to deprecate my entire species in order to reinforce a belief that aliens not only can't visit us, according to physics (which is at least a valid reason to argue against the chances of ET coming here), but wouldn't bother even if they could.

 

[QuasarVM]

I like and concur with Ford's views on this topic.

 

[SilentP]

Seconded, though he puts it much more eloquently than I could.

 

[TheGodBen]

Why wouldn't they be interested in us?

"Why shouldn't I believe in fairies?" That's the wrong way of thinking about things like this, the correct question is "Why should I believe in fairies?" and by extension "Why would aliens be interested in us?"

Intellectual curiosity is a reasonable explanation, but if they have the technology which would allow them to travel across the galaxy in a relatively brief period then we'd probably just be one of thousands of species they'd have the potential to study. I see no reason why they'd choose to spend the time studying us rather than the Glarnax species from Hulbar 5, or the Terran trout.

However, I'm not going to deprecate my entire species in order to reinforce a belief that aliens not only can't visit us, according to physics (which is at least a valid reason to argue against the chances of ET coming here), but wouldn't bother even if they could.

I'm not depreciating our species, I just see no reason to inflate it. It's a huge galaxy and the Milky Way is a tiny part of this universe, so why would we be considered unique enough to warrant study?

 

[Deckerd]

It doesn't matter if they live for 2000 years and can spend another 2000 in suspended animation; the chances of anyone stumbling on our little rock are infinitessimal.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Lot of what-ifs here.

So, what if most alien intelligence is along the lines of cetaceans rather than human beings? We can then expect to hear from them...never.

From there, of course, we can move on to "what if alien intelligences have vastly less in common biologically and psychologically with human beings or cetaceans than either of our species has with one another?"

The idea of leaving this planet is a notion thus far entertained, briefly, by a small number of the members of one species here - and acted upon far more briefly by a tiny percentage of those. Let's not confuse that with any kind of "manifest destiny" on the part of life to take an interest in and explore the Universe.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I always chuckle when people try to pass off cynicism as insight and experience by saying stuff like "Why would aliens be interested in our childish civilization on the useless little rock?"
I mean, Okay, insult the human race if you like, though that's the cynicism part...but insulting the planet we live on as though it's too small and undeserving is silly.
Somebody read Douglas Adams too hard.

 

[Deckerd]

Why is it "deserving"?

 

[TheGodBen]

I mean, Okay, insult the human race if you like, though that's the cynicism part...but insulting the planet we live on as though it's too small and undeserving is silly.

Why? For all we know aliens could have evolved on a Venus-style world and when they arrive in this solar system they take a great interest in Venus while seeing Earth as a festering boil of a world.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

People project moral and philosophical values into the whole question of alien intelligence - among other things we get the "deserving/significant/insignificant" stuff which underscores the fact that when people conjure up alien beings (especially for fictional purposes but even in scientific discussions) they're looking for affirmations of one kind or another about human beings and our putative "place in the Universe."

 

[Deckerd]

People project moral and philosophical values into the whole question of alien intelligence - among other things we get the "deserving/significant/insignificant" stuff which underscores the fact that when people conjure up alien beings (especially for fictional purposes but even in scientific discussions) they're looking for affirmations of one kind or another about human beings and our putative "place in the Universe."

I know that. I just wanted to hear Nardpuncher explain it to us.