Harlan Ellison COTEF Lawsuit Gains Momentum

[Captain_Rogers]

Nothing wrong with being angry, and you can read 'bitter' into Ellison's take if you have to, but more like somebody with good critical standards who expects better from his so=called peers.

Ok, I draw my "bitter" remark from the available evidence. 40+ years, whining about COTEOF.

As for having critical standards, again, that is something I can completely understand. But int he real world we have a thing called acting professional, and he certainly seems to be sorely lacking in professionalism or impulse control. He gets away with, and gets a pass from people for acting like a child having a tantrum ONLY because of his name.

The problem I see with that is it just validates him since he's never accountable for his behavior.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Harlan was behaving exactly like Harlan long before anyone knew his name, and people liked him just as well (and he's pretty well-liked by many who actually know him, frustrating though he is). You'll have to come up with a different rationale for being unreasonably dismissive.

 

[Jan]

But int he real world we have a thing called acting professional, and he certainly seems to be sorely lacking in professionalism or impulse control. He gets away with, and gets a pass from people for acting like a child having a tantrum ONLY because of his name.

The problem I see with that is it just validates him since he's never accountable for his behavior.

If you're talking about the lawsuit, I would suggest that the professional thing would have been for Paramount to abide by the contract. Equally professional is Ellison making sure that they do.

If more people made a loud noisy deal of it when they've been wronged maybe it wouldn't happen as often.

Jan

 

[Broccoli]

The guys over at Phase II should let HE make his version of City.

Eh...he'd only end up suing them.

Then let's get HE to sell it to Abrams for his next ST movie.

Then he'd bitch when they change a minute detail, and subsequently start another 40+ year lawsuit.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Then he'd bitch when they change a minute detail, and subsequently start another 40+ year lawsuit.

Nope.

So few of Ellison's attempted critics really address his actual statements and behavior; there is this kind of kindergarten delight in exaggerating and making up hypothetical offenses and then pretending that they represent HE "would do" - oddly enough, a kind of acting-out, dramatizing behavior not too different from what they accuse him of.

 

[Jan]

Broccoli, if you think his lawsuits are so completely without merit how about providing us with a list of the ones he's lost or that have been dismissed as frivolous?

waiting....

Didn't think you could.

Jan

 

[Mysterion]

Harlan was behaving exactly like Harlan long before anyone knew his name, and people liked him just as well (and he's pretty well-liked by many who actually know him, frustrating though he is). You'll have to come up with a different rationale for being unreasonably dismissive.

I agree with this. HE is a very passionate guy when it comes to something he perceives as an injustice.

Just saw the documentary Dreams With Teeth about Ellison. I highly recommend this film to anyone interested in Ellison. If you already like Ellison, you will probably like him a bit more after seeing this movie. If you don't like Ellison, you might come away from this film understanding him a bit better.

 

[Broccoli]

Oh, FFS.

Then he'd bitch when they change a minute detail, and subsequently start another 40+ year lawsuit.

Nope.

So few of Ellison's attempted critics really address his actual statements and behavior; there is this kind of kindergarten delight in exaggerating and making up hypothetical offenses and then pretending that they represent HE "would do" - oddly enough, a kind of acting-out, dramatizing behavior not too different from what they accuse him of.

Hmm...I'm glad you know exactly what my thoughts are on the matter. Bravo, Dennis. I can give a shit either way about HE or the situation.

Broccoli, if you think his lawsuits are so completely without merit how about providing us with a list of the ones he's lost or that have been dismissed as frivolous?

waiting....

Didn't think you could.

Jan

Oh, Oh, I'm sorry, Jan. Next time, I'll somehow learn to break the fundamental rules of the internet when you wait for me to respond to something that you didn't post yet.

In any case, my comments were in jest. I forgot the TrekBBS has no sense of humor. I tried to indicate this with the , but clearly this wasn't clear enough. Next time, I'll add the following:

<<---------THIS IS A JOKE AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SUBJECT! (don't hesistate to PM if you have trouble grasping the gag.)

Hopefully, this will help those in the future.

 

[Jan]

<<---------THIS IS A JOKE AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SUBJECT! (don't hesistate to PM if you have trouble grasping the gag.)

Hopefully, this will help those in the future.

Good idea since your posts so closely resembled quite a number of others on this same thread that were supposedly serious.

I'm in complete agreement with Dennis.

Jan (not Jax)

 

[Broccoli]

<<---------THIS IS A JOKE AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SUBJECT! (don't hesistate to PM if you have trouble grasping the gag.)

Hopefully, this will help those in the future.

Good idea since your posts so closely resembled quite a number of others on this same thread that were supposedly serious.

Before people would realize when jokes are being made. It is too bad it has come to this, then again, this thread has become "Serious Business". Perhaps gags at this stage shouldn't be allowed.

Nah...

I'm in complete agreement with Dennis.

Good for you. Has little anything to do with me.

Jan (not Jax)

I realized that after I posted and corrected as such. Forgive the typo. I do make them on occasion.

 

[Captain_Rogers]

Harlan was behaving exactly like Harlan long before anyone knew his name, and people liked him just as well (and he's pretty well-liked by many who actually know him, frustrating though he is). You'll have to come up with a different rationale for being unreasonably dismissive.

No, actually I don't.

And there is nothing at all unreasonable in the least for being dismissive of someone whose "bad table manners" crosses the line of acceptable behavior.

One wouldn't tolerate a child behaving the way he does, and it's even less tolerable in a supposed adult.

 

[Maurice]

You can find Ellison annoying, fine. You can accuse him of being childish or petty or what have you. But the thing about the man that matters is that he does not bend over and take it from the Hollywood machine like so many others. You all may love the televised "City", you all may hate Ellison's first draft, and you may find him personally reprehensible. But this lawsuit is about fairness to writers and their creations, corporations living up to their contracts, and the Writers Guild doing its job. And if fans actually care about the people who make the entertainments they enjoy so much, they should be supporting efforts like this, not pillorying the writers, etc., who are fighting for what their contracts mandate.

 

[Noname Given]

Harlan was behaving exactly like Harlan long before anyone knew his name, and people liked him just as well (and he's pretty well-liked by many who actually know him, frustrating though he is). You'll have to come up with a different rationale for being unreasonably dismissive.

I've met Harlan in person; and even had the opportunity to drive him to the airport from a Worldcon. Lets just say he (like a lot of 'celebreties' and in Con circles he certainly is one); has a 'public' persona; and a 'private' on and they are very different from each other.

 

[Mysterion]

I've met Harlan in person; and even had the opportunity to drive him to the airport from a Worldcon. Lets just say he (like a lot of 'celebreties' and in Con circles he certainly is one); has a 'public' persona; and a 'private' on and they are very different from each other.

So did you have a positive or negative experience?

 

[Brutal Strudel]

You can find Ellison annoying, fine. You can accuse him of being childish or petty or what have you. But the thing about the man that matters is that he does not bend over and take it from the Hollywood machine like so many others. You all may love the televised "City", you all may hate Ellison's first draft, and you may find him personally reprehensible. But this lawsuit is about fairness to writers and their creations, corporations living up to their contracts, and the Writers Guild doing its job. And if fans actually care about the people who make the entertainments they enjoy so much, they should be supporting efforts like this, not pillorying the writers, etc., who are fighting for what their contracts mandate.

Hell, HE himself allows that some people may legitmately prefer the filmed version, he says so in his intro. That does not change the fact that GR screwed him then and Paramount, by continuing to wring cash out of his creation while making sure he gets none of it, is screwing him now.

 

[Photoman15]

You can find Ellison annoying, fine. You can accuse him of being childish or petty or what have you. But the thing about the man that matters is that he does not bend over and take it from the Hollywood machine like so many others. You all may love the televised "City", you all may hate Ellison's first draft, and you may find him personally reprehensible. But this lawsuit is about fairness to writers and their creations, corporations living up to their contracts, and the Writers Guild doing its job. And if fans actually care about the people who make the entertainments they enjoy so much, they should be supporting efforts like this, not pillorying the writers, etc., who are fighting for what their contracts mandate.

Hell, HE himself allows that some people may legitmately prefer the filmed version, he says so in his intro. That does not change the fact that GR screwed him then and Paramount, by continuing to wring cash out of his creation while making sure he gets none of it, is screwing him now.

But it's not like they screwed HE. It's the way the business was run back then (and to some extent now). It's not like they said, "oh, it Ellison. Let's pay him for a script and never give residuals like we give the other writers". I understand he was p/o'd at GR for things Gene "mis-stated" later on. But the fact is, the script he turned in was not STAR TREK nor what GR had in mind for ST. If GR decided that the crew of the Enterprise was the best of the best, then that's how the crew was to be. It's Gene's Utopian outlook on the future. Beckwith could not be dealing drugs (to other crew members and to the planets they visited) in Gene Roddenberry's STAR TREK, PERIOD.
Dorothy Fontana said (in the book) that Beckwith and Le-whatever were no one the viewers had any vested interest in, so she made the protagonist be McCoy. And the biggest thing that HE moans about is something that he should have no say in, what does the hero (of STAR TREK, in this case, Captain James Kirk) do to be the hero. HEs' version, Beckwith goes to save Edith and it's Spock who stops him because Kirk WON'T. That's not the Kirk we are familiar with. Kirk WOULD NEVER make this wrong decision (to save her or stop someone from saving her). He knows what has to be done. It would not have made Kirk a better character, it would have made him weak-willed and prone to being (un)controlled by his emotions.

There is another paragraph in the HE book that I'd like to address. I don't have the book here so it's paraphrased. He quoted Gene in a speech talking about David Gerrold, that he had hired him for Trek. The speech was during the 2nd or 3rd season of TNG, saying he never gave them anything they could shoot. Harlan then comments about this and says "What about 'Trouble With Tribbles'?". Gene was not talking about TOS, but TNG. Now whether David submitted anything that was shootable is not what I'm commenting on here, just that Harlan took this quote either out of context, or did not know what that Gene was talking about hiring DG to work on TNG. As far as I know, the only story DG gave in for TNG was "Blood & Fire" which was rejected for whatever reason of the day then, but that's what Gene was talking about.

How many other quotes or memories did Harlan mistake or was confused about in the book? It makes it suspect, at least somewhat.

 

[Photoman15]

You can find Ellison annoying, fine. You can accuse him of being childish or petty or what have you. But the thing about the man that matters is that he does not bend over and take it from the Hollywood machine like so many others. You all may love the televised "City", you all may hate Ellison's first draft, and you may find him personally reprehensible. But this lawsuit is about fairness to writers and their creations, corporations living up to their contracts, and the Writers Guild doing its job. And if fans actually care about the people who make the entertainments they enjoy so much, they should be supporting efforts like this, not pillorying the writers, etc., who are fighting for what their contracts mandate.

Hell, HE himself allows that some people may legitmately prefer the filmed version, he says so in his intro. That does not change the fact that GR screwed him then and Paramount, by continuing to wring cash out of his creation while making sure he gets none of it, is screwing him now.

As a story, Harlan's version is excellent. As a Trek episode, I don't believe it would have worked and the filmed version is just as excellent.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I agree with what you're saying about HE's version--I much prefer the filmed version myself--but I've got independent verification of the "he had my Scotty selling drugs" canard. That's not contractual, that's dirty pool.

Likewise, Ellison is suing here to make the suits-of-the moment live up to their obligations under WGA contract.

 

[Chrisisall]

{Kaylee voice}
Everyone's so mad...
{/Kaylee voice}

 

[EEE]

3. McCoy shooting himself with a hypo. Character assassination, pure and simple.

IIRC, McCoy shot himself by accident. He didn't plan on it. The ship rocked as he was administering to his patient on the bridge.

Which still makes him look like an idiot. Let's use a cop show analogy: "Here I am with a 44 magnum and I'll hold it in such a way, cocked and with the safety off, so that when someone bumps me it'll go off."

...in the episode, McCoy has just used the hypo on Sulu and has stood up to put the hypo away. As he's checking the hypo prior to placing it in his bag, the ship rocks and he falls against it.