The Outsider Who Saved Star Trek

[GhostFaceSaint]

Nicholas Meyer was an outsider who came into the world of Star Trek at a time when many at Paramount were saying that the second feature film would be the final one, and saved the franchise with "Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan". "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" directed by Robert Wise was a financial success but considered boring by the critics and fans alike. (About Robert Wise, he didn't get to edit the original cut of the film, and it ended up rather dry and emotionless. Indeed the first cut was a terrible film, however I believe that Wise redeemed the film when he got to do his own cut in the DVD version labeled "The Directors Edition" which if you listen to the commentary you will hear him say why his version works better than the original or the TV cut, but this is not what this post is about). According to Harve Bennet, producer of the first five Star Trek films, he needed to find a new director to save Star Trek by taking it in a new direction than TMP. The director he found was of course Nicholas Meyer. Nicholas Meyer had questions about Gene Roddenberry's vision about the future of mankind, he didn't see any proof that man would improve himself in the way that Gene speculated and had legitimate questions about the series, and the first film. He wanted to do a grittier approach, and his idea of naval tradition came from the Horatio Hornblower novels, so he used Hornblower as an inspiration for Star Trek II. When Nick was finished "Wrath Of Khan" was considered by critics to be a much better film, and became the favorite Star Trek film for many fans and non fans alike over the years. Nick had revitalized the franchise and would go on to assist director Leonard Nimoy in "Star Trek III: The Search For Spock", co-write "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home", and co-write and direct another film; "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country". In IV Nick and Leonard Nimoy would do what many great science fiction had done before and predict future events as VI would have important parallels of the end of the cold war. (If you think I am wrong about sci-fi predicting the future than you need to educate yourself on sci-fi authors, for example; H.G. Wells had predicted social change along with many events in the early 20th century such as World War II and Nazi aerial bombing of London!)

Nicholas Meyer's memoir is about to come out: ""The View From The Bridge – Memories of Star Trek and a Life in Hollywood". Here is a website with news about the book: http://trekmovie.com/2009/06/22/exclusive-excerpt-from-upcoming-nicholas-meyer-star-trek-memoir/

We should discuss the importance of Nicholas Meyer to Star Trek, science fiction, and to literature here on this board. What memories do you have about Star Trek II, IV, and VI? What do you remember from his interviews over the years? What do you think of him? Would Star Trek likely be around today if not for Nick?

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

I personally consider Star Trek VI to be just as cool as "The Seven Percent Solution" if not cooler because it predicted the fall of the Soviet Union! To me this is high art! Really I don't think Star Trek would have survived the 1980's if Nicholas Meyer hadn't stepped into the picture. He is an accomplished writer and director indeed.

 

[Candlelight]

While I prefer STII to what we could've got (time travel and killing Kennedy) I never really been a fan of Wrath of Khan. Looking back, II and VI are actually quite silly run around movies.

Whether that's a direct result of Meyer I don't know. Roddenberry's positive outlook on the future of humanity is seldom rivalled; while people criticise it's unlikelyhood, it's still a change from what people produced before and since.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

While I prefer STII to what we could've got (time travel and killing Kennedy) I never really been a fan of Wrath of Khan. Looking back, II and VI are actually quite silly run around movies.

Whether that's a direct result of Meyer I don't know. Roddenberry's positive outlook on the future of humanity is seldom rivalled; while people criticise it's unlikelyhood, it's still a change from what people produced before and since.

I don't agree, their was some humor in Star Trek VI, but to call it silly is inaccurate. Wrath' wasn't perfect but it was still a great film. Meyer's had a lot to contribute to Star Trek and his films were some of the very best, and as far as the old cast goes the very best. The only next gen. film came close to what Meyer's films were like was "First Contact" the rest of the next gen films were mostly like two hour episodes, and although I like Nemesis many fans of the franchise hated it. No one has captured the same emotions that Wrath' evoked until the latest film; Star Trek (XI) and I think this is the only film to surpass the emotions in Wrath'! Nick's films are the standard for Trek films and JJ Abrams looked to Nick's work as memorable inspiration when he was making the new film.

 

[RyuRoots]

I have a ton of issues with Star Trek II (and certainly don't think it's a great film, to say the least), but one of the bigger ones is that whole approach. I felt like I was watching the US Navy in space, not Starfleet. Star Trek IV and VI however, I loved. Hilarious, and an absolutely amazing sendoff to the TOS crew respectively.

 

[Data Holmes]

If you ask me, Meyer and Roddenberry were two sides to the same coin with regard to the two sides of trek. The problem is always when one side overshadows the other.

Meyer was the Literary, Character, and Action.
GR was the Metaphysical, idealism, and humanism.

Trek was always a struggle between these two sides.

 

[trevanian]

I personally consider Star Trek VI to be just as cool as "The Seven Percent Solution" if not cooler because it predicted the fall of the Soviet Union!

It is hard to predict something that has already happened. Meyer had even done another picture about the subject before TUC, COMPANY BUSINESS.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

I personally consider Star Trek VI to be just as cool as "The Seven Percent Solution" if not cooler because it predicted the fall of the Soviet Union!

It is hard to predict something that has already happened. Meyer had even done another picture about the subject before TUC, COMPANY BUSINESS.

Meyer and Nimoy were using only one event that already happened that being Chernobyl, but predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union months before it happened is what I was refering too and doing that sort of thing is true sci-fi tradition (they filmed and then debuted "The Undiscovered Country" in December of 1991 well before the final collapse of the USSR which didn't occur until the months of July and August of that same year) also predicting the coup attempt which was one of the themes in TUC is another example of a sci-fi predicting events before they would happen.

 

[trevanian]

I personally consider Star Trek VI to be just as cool as "The Seven Percent Solution" if not cooler because it predicted the fall of the Soviet Union!

It is hard to predict something that has already happened. Meyer had even done another picture about the subject before TUC, COMPANY BUSINESS.

Meyer and Nimoy were using only one event that already happened that being Chernobyl, but predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union months before it happened is what I was refering too and doing that sort of thing is true sci-fi tradition (they filmed and then debuted "The Undiscovered Country" in December of 1991 well before the final collapse of the USSR which didn't occur until the months of July and August of that same year) also predicting the coup attempt which was one of the themes in TUC is another example of a sci-fi predicting events before they would happen.

the wall started being torn down November 9 of 1989.

Don't dig yourself in any deeper.

 

[Maurice]

Predict, nothing. If anything, their version got it wrong. The Klingon Empire survived, the Soviet Union, didn't.

And I think people overstate Bennett and Meyer's "saving" the franchise. What they did was make a successful but lower budget and ergo more profitable film than TMP, even though it didn't do as much box office overall. Lots of other producers and directors could have done the same. Any sequel that turned a tidy profit would have led to more sequels. This is not to deny their accomplishments, but let's not lionize them.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

The old Klingon Empire died and was reformed into a new one there is a parallel with the USSR becoming a republic with many of the same players from the old USSR. Star Trek VI also had an assassination while the Russian's attempted one in the August failed coup, the parallel is real and does exist! There are many parallels between Star Trek VI and the collapse of the Soviet Union and the birth of the republic that exists today. The only reason it seems that you don't want to achnknowledge the parallel is because you just don't like Nicholas Meyer's version of Star Trek. You can go ahead and dislike his films if you want but not to acknowledge their impact on Trek is childish.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I think Meyer really was a 'lightening in a bottle' case...it's a huge risk to hire someone with no background in Star Trek to play such a pivotal role in the film franchise. He ended up being the right person at the right time, but Rick Berman (or whoever made the ultimate crew decisions about "Nemesis") shouldn't have assumed that just because it worked with Meyer, bringing in people from outside Star Trek for the last TNG film would yield the same results as calling on Meyer for Star Trek II.

I know John Logan won a screenwriting Oscar, but that doesn't mean he was the right writer (Akiva Goldsman has won an Oscar for "A Beautiful Mind", but he was so wrong for the Batman franchise) and Stuart Baird, having directed a Steven Seagal actioner, hadn't even done anything to warrant his shot at a Star Trek movie. I wish Berman hadn't given Logan full creative control over the "Nemesis" script...we could have been calling Meyer the saviour of both the original series and the TNG film franchise.

 

[trevanian]

I know John Logan won a screenwriting Oscar .

Logan's credits and award are hardly representative of his actual work. Only his Phoenix stuff was actually in the GLADIATOR film, and his last draft of the HOWARD HUGHES pic was turned in around 1997, many years and drafts and writers removed from the final film. The first writer on the show has a huge advantage guild-wise, and he benefitted on that w/ Hughes.

 

[EEE]

The person who really saved Star Trek was the guy who scheduled the syndication (I forget his name).

 

[CoveTom]

Let's not forget the contributions of Harve Bennett and Robert Salin on TWOK as well. People often cite Meyer's involvement and forget how much of an influence each of those men had as well. In fact, I think it was the balance of Bennett and Meyer that was the best thing to happen to the film. Working together in writing TVH too. Personally, I think that when Meyer was turned loose without the counterbalance of Bennett on TUC, he did alot worse.

 

[Too Much Fun]

People often cite Meyer's involvement and forget how much of an influence each of those men had as well. In fact, I think it was the balance of Bennett and Meyer that was the best thing to happen to the film. Working together in writing TVH too. Personally, I think that when Meyer was turned loose without the counterbalance of Bennett on TUC, he did alot worse.

I'm not sure about that. Undoubtedly Harve deserves a lot of credit for his decisions as a producer in the Star Trek franchise, and I'll always be grateful to him for those, but as a writer? I actually feel the opposite of you about his collaboration with Meyer.

I remember when it was explained on the "Star Trek IV" DVD how Meyer wrote all the San Francisco stuff and Bennett wrote all the exposition space stuff at the beginning and end, and I think that proves how much better Meyer's contribution to that movie was. I love the San Francisco stuff, but found the beginning and ending periods of the movie rather lifeless (aside from Spock's wonderful exchange with his father and Kirk's brief moments with Gillian at the end).

I feel my point is further proven by the fact that "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock", which Harve wrote solo, was so inferior to the heavily-influenced-by-Meyer "Star Trek II" and "Star Trek IV".

I agree that "Star Trek VI" is disappointing in many ways, but overall, I think it's a more memorable movie than "Star Trek III", which I believe doesn't work very well as its own standalone story. It's mostly tying up loose ends from the previous film and wastes a lot of time on dull Savvik/David/Young Spock scenes, that ultimately lead to an anti-climactic conclusion.

 

[trevanian]

People often cite Meyer's involvement and forget how much of an influence each of those men had as well. In fact, I think it was the balance of Bennett and Meyer that was the best thing to happen to the film. Working together in writing TVH too. Personally, I think that when Meyer was turned loose without the counterbalance of Bennett on TUC, he did alot worse.

I'm not sure about that. Undoubtedly Harve deserves a lot of credit for his decisions as a producer in the Star Trek franchise, and I'll always be grateful to him for those, but as a writer? I actually feel the opposite of you about his collaboration with Meyer.

I remember when it was explained on the "Star Trek IV" DVD how Meyer wrote all the San Francisco stuff and Bennett wrote all the exposition space stuff at the beginning and end, and I think that proves how much better Meyer's contribution to that movie was. I love the San Francisco stuff, but found the beginning and ending periods of the movie rather lifeless (aside from Spock's wonderful exchange with his father and Kirk's brief moments with Gillian at the end).

I feel my point is further proven by the fact that "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock", which Harve wrote solo, was so inferior to the heavily-influenced-by-Meyer "Star Trek II" and "Star Trek IV".

I agree that "Star Trek VI" is disappointing in many ways, but overall, I think it's a more memorable movie than "Star Trek III", which I believe doesn't work very well as its own standalone story. It's mostly tying up loose ends from the previous film and wastes a lot of time on dull Savvik/David/Young Spock scenes, that ultimately lead to an anti-climactic conclusion.

Well, I think Meyer and Flinn did some awful plotting in TUC, and some of it was budget-related, but other stuff was just hokey (turning Rure Penthe into King Solomon's Mines, for example.) And I really think they could have done TUC on a budget and made a better movie if they'd kept it all on Enterprise and the klingon flagship as they battled their way TO Earth for the conference, showing a forged-in-battle alliance between Fed and Kling along the way, so I think they really missed the boat in other ways too.

But you're right to say that the worst stuff in TOS TREK writing-wise was III.
I still feel like laughing when I read the ILM comment about SFS having one of the best scripts they'd ever received, because it is just 'bad tv' to me (though maybe that is what they were aiming for, lowest common denominator.) I also find the Bennett parts of TVH to be like watching smelly lead-based paint dry, pretty boring AND toxic.

Bennett absolutely needed Meyer on the writing, but Meyer needed a lot of material from which to fix things. I'm guessing if he read the other writers' stuff on TUC (and there seems to be some inconsistency on whether he did or not), he didn't do so much building on that as he did on II ... more a matter of shuffling for plot rather than embellishing and fleshing out for depth.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

I thought you were talking about Abrams, since he saved Star Trek.

 

[trevanian]

I thought you were talking about Abrams, since he saved Star Trek.

If I wanted some piss on this thread I'd've poured a Budweiser.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

It is hard to predict something that has already happened. Meyer had even done another picture about the subject before TUC, COMPANY BUSINESS.

Meyer and Nimoy were using only one event that already happened that being Chernobyl, but predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union months before it happened is what I was refering too and doing that sort of thing is true sci-fi tradition (they filmed and then debuted "The Undiscovered Country" in December of 1991 well before the final collapse of the USSR which didn't occur until the months of July and August of that same year) also predicting the coup attempt which was one of the themes in TUC is another example of a sci-fi predicting events before they would happen.

the wall started being torn down November 9 of 1989.

Don't dig yourself in any deeper.

Where did I mention the Berlin Wall as being predicted? I am talking about the collapse of the Soviet Union ya dork, pay attention, inspiration for the film came from past events Chernobyl and the Berlin Wall, yes I have already acknowledged that, but, where they took the film by predicting the collapse of the USSR (the end of the Klingon Empire), the assassination attempt on Yeltsin during the failed August coup (The assasinatioin of Gorkon) is what I am referring too.