trek's ANDROIDS

[RobertScorpio]

Data and Lal and Lore and...B-stupid (the one from that dreadful TNG movie that will go un-named here)...and Data's mom..and, well, anyone I might have forgotten. Then you have Dr. Corby's androids in WHAT ARE LITTLE GIRLS MADE OF, and the ones MUDD/KIRK encounter..and any others I might have forgotten...

Were Soong's androids really that impressive and THAT evolved from, well, Corby's for example? I don't see that much a difference. Had RUK or the sexy-babe android had survived that episode, or even the Corby android, they might have been able to evolve as data surely did on TNG.

So...my point? Not so sure Soong's androids were that more advanced than the ones we had seen before.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Timo]

Actually, the characters of TNG don't consider Soong's androids all that hot, either. The supposed "other" expert on the field, Ira Graves, dismisses them as tinkertoys; Starfleet never bothers to study Data's innards before accepting him as a cadet.

The positronic brain is something of an achievement all right, at least in "Datalore". But there's no indication it would be a required step in building a quality android. It's just that Soong was the only one to successfully build either the positronic brain or (obviously) the brain/body combo.

In VOY "Prototype", it is confirmed that Data is the only sentient android in the UFP at that particular time (Lore and Lal are out of the game, and B'Elanna Torres apparently doesn't know about Juliana Tainer). However, VOY takes the proliferation of other types of artificial intelligence for granted. So perhaps it's just that the android body is considered beneath the dignity of a modern engineer or inventor, and the modern AIs are installed on more advanced creations such as holograms?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RobertScorpio]

Actually, the characters of TNG don't consider Soong's androids all that hot, either. The supposed "other" expert on the field, Ira Graves, dismisses them as tinkertoys; Starfleet never bothers to study Data's innards before accepting him as a cadet.

The positronic brain is something of an achievement all right, at least in "Datalore". But there's no indication it would be a required step in building a quality android. It's just that Soong was the only one to successfully build either the positronic brain or (obviously) the brain/body combo.

In VOY "Prototype", it is confirmed that Data is the only sentient android in the UFP at that particular time (Lore and Lal are out of the game, and B'Elanna Torres apparently doesn't know about Juliana Tainer). However, VOY takes the proliferation of other types of artificial intelligence for granted. So perhaps it's just that the android body is considered beneath the dignity of a modern engineer or inventor, and the modern AIs are installed on more advanced creations such as holograms?

Timo Saloniemi

I forgot about PROTYPE. I really liked that episode as I recall. Going to watch it tonight!!!

But yeah...the HOLOGRAMS seem far more advanced than the androids if you think about it...

Rob

 

[Creedence]

Data and Lal and Lore and...B-stupid (the one from that dreadful TNG movie that will go un-named here)...and Data's mom..and, well, anyone I might have forgotten. Then you have Dr. Corby's androids in WHAT ARE LITTLE GIRLS MADE OF, and the ones MUDD/KIRK encounter..and any others I might have forgotten...

Let's not forget the buxom bevy of blonde beauties that Flint created in TOS.

 

[Red Ranger]

It seems to be that the singular achievement of the Soong-type androids is the positronic brain. It seems to mimic the human brain in some fashion, which would allow it to be more "human" in how it processes information and, potentially, emotions, and make it a "learning computer."

As you may recall, Lal had a positronic brain and developed emotions, which she was unable to cope with and led to her shutdown. As we also saw from Data's experience with the emotion chip in GEN, the strong, conflicting emotions paralyzed him and he was also almost unable to handle them.

But come to think of it, what happened to Lal was similar to what happened to Reyna Kapec (sp?) -- she developed love for both Flint and Kirk but was unable to handle such strong emotions. And Andrea was also confused over how she seemed to love Dr. Korby. Perhaps android minds are so logical that the illogic of emotions short-circuits its brain functions.

I wonder if Bruce Maddox will ever succeed in creating a Soong-type android. (Maybe Data sent him Lore's remains so he could experiment on creating a less flawed version of the pathological Lore).

So I say it was the positronic brain which set Data and the other Soong-type androids apart.

Red Ranger

 

[roguephoenix]

Actually, the characters of TNG don't consider Soong's androids all that hot, either. The supposed "other" expert on the field, Ira Graves, dismisses them as tinkertoys; Starfleet never bothers to study Data's innards before accepting him as a cadet.

The positronic brain is something of an achievement all right, at least in "Datalore". But there's no indication it would be a required step in building a quality android. It's just that Soong was the only one to successfully build either the positronic brain or (obviously) the brain/body combo.

In VOY "Prototype", it is confirmed that Data is the only sentient android in the UFP at that particular time (Lore and Lal are out of the game, and B'Elanna Torres apparently doesn't know about Juliana Tainer). However, VOY takes the proliferation of other types of artificial intelligence for granted. So perhaps it's just that the android body is considered beneath the dignity of a modern engineer or inventor, and the modern AIs are installed on more advanced creations such as holograms?

Timo Saloniemi

they did study data extensively. this was mentioned in several episodes.

juliana is on a need to know basis so not many people know about her. only ones that know are probably the ones in that room after she broke.

maybe it is the positronic brain that makes an android a sentient lifeform though they did take liberties in voyager. though who knows, maybe from study of data's positronic matrix they were able to fashion computer cores that had similar response and learning capacity that it would have been possible for the doc to become sentient.

data may not have seemed advanced, but he was sentient. all those other "advanced" androids may not be.

*shrug*

 

[Timo]

they did study data extensively. this was mentioned in several episodes.

Not too carefully... In "Datalore", Data's nearest Starfleet colleagues still don't realize that Data is a positronic robot created by Dr. Soong, the lone specialist in the field of positronics. The connection is only made when said colleagues enter Soong's secret laboratory.

Perhaps Data would have been a target worthy of study if Starfleet had realized he was positronic. But since he looked like yer regular android, they never suspected, and never bothered to have an inside look. (How this relates to the fact that all positronic brains send unique signals that can be detected across interstellar distances, as in ST:NEM, remains unclear. Perhaps Starfleet does consist of millions of incompetent idiots plus up to seven smart characters at any given time?)

maybe from study of data's positronic matrix they were able to fashion computer cores that had similar response and learning capacity that it would have been possible for the doc to become sentient.

They got sentience out of holograms in "The Big Goodbye" already, back when Data's positronic nature was still fresh news and nobody had peeked inside his skull. And they did have plenty of sentient machines in TOS, even though Kirk seldom left them in a condition facilitating effortless research...

Generally, I'd say "true sentience" is overrated. If one can fake it, create the impression of it, on a constant basis, then one is sentient. And sentience must come in a variety of degrees anyway, so that anything and everything from a toddler or retard to a supergenius and possibly beyond is accepted, including odd side branches like autists or psychopaths. I'm sure Data, Rayna Kapec, Ruk, the EMH and Vic Fontaine all fit this broad bill, although I'm undecided on Exocomps or Spot.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RobertScorpio]

they did study data extensively. this was mentioned in several episodes.

Not too carefully... In "Datalore", Data's nearest Starfleet colleagues still don't realize that Data is a positronic robot created by Dr. Soong, the lone specialist in the field of positronics. The connection is only made when said colleagues enter Soong's secret laboratory.

Perhaps Data would have been a target worthy of study if Starfleet had realized he was positronic. But since he looked like yer regular android, they never suspected, and never bothered to have an inside look. (How this relates to the fact that all positronic brains send unique signals that can be detected across interstellar distances, as in ST:NEM, remains unclear. Perhaps Starfleet does consist of millions of incompetent idiots plus up to seven smart characters at any given time?)

maybe from study of data's positronic matrix they were able to fashion computer cores that had similar response and learning capacity that it would have been possible for the doc to become sentient.

They got sentience out of holograms in "The Big Goodbye" already, back when Data's positronic nature was still fresh news and nobody had peeked inside his skull. And they did have plenty of sentient machines in TOS, even though Kirk seldom left them in a condition facilitating effortless research...

Generally, I'd say "true sentience" is overrated. If one can fake it, create the impression of it, on a constant basis, then one is sentient. And sentience must come in a variety of degrees anyway, so that anything and everything from a toddler or retard to a supergenius and possibly beyond is accepted, including odd side branches like autists or psychopaths. I'm sure Data, Rayna Kapec, Ruk, the EMH and Vic Fontaine all fit this broad bill, although I'm undecided on Exocomps or Spot.

Timo Saloniemi

Well thought out and brought up some interesting things in terms of TOS androids I hadnt thought of. I liked your 'if they can fake it then it is sentient' angle. I agree...

Rob

 

[Icemizer]

As far as androids go Data is an inferior model even when compared to his mother or the Ruk model series. The androids created by the Corby-droid were ment only to serve him and were created with limited capacity for free thought. Anything outside of their limited capacity would cause a shut down. Ruk himself has full thought and emotions but was so old that he had become faulty. The Corby-droid was a fully integrated android that would have run circles around poor hapless Data.

 

[RobertScorpio]

As far as androids go Data is an inferior model even when compared to his mother or the Ruk model series. The androids created by the Corby-droid were ment only to serve him and were created with limited capacity for free thought. Anything outside of their limited capacity would cause a shut down. Ruk himself has full thought and emotions but was so old that he had become faulty. The Corby-droid was a fully integrated android that would have run circles around poor hapless Data.

But, most importantly; Corby created the hottest looking android of all time!! Andrea! That alone makes Corby a GOD next to soong and his goofy looking androids...

But yeah..I get your point.

Rob Scorpio