Re: Tuvix and its disturbing implications for how transports really wo
Of course, if souls don't actually exist, this entire point is moot.
You beat me to it.
All you soul people - you think the soul sort of "lives in" the body? And it needs a body/home until the body "dies" and then (and only then) the soul can go free and doesn't need a body to live in?
Please don't get defensive -- this is a great thread so far -- I'm just trying to get clarification.
Defining the soul, its residence, and its transmission is... complicated. I don't have a very good answer, especially in this context. I don't think the soul just "lives in" the body, but there is an element of that sort of habitation, yes. I wouldn't say the two are independent, or that one precedes the other, though I do believe the soul outlives the body and is the true "person." As a very imperfect analogy, compare it to the Trill. Jadzia Dax did not exist before the joining of Jadzia and Dax. A completely unique entity is created by the two. And Dax outlives Jadzia. Where the analogy breaks down (okay, one of many ways, but I'm trying to be brief) is that the soul (Dax) doesn't exist before the body (Jadzia), and continues on as the single entity (Jadzia Dax) after the body (Jadzia) dies. If there is a new body into which the soul is put, you don't have a new being (Ezri Dax), but the same "person" (Jadzia Dax) in a new body (Ezri, or in the case of a transporter and souls, the reconstuted Jadzia). The difference being that in the case of the transporter, there is no previous being (Ezri Dax) which is being replaced by the soul (Jadzia Dax), but an empty shell (Jadzia). Does that all make sense?
Back to transporters though, there is no way you can say that Tuvix and Second Chances episode have no implications for transporter use or for the meaning of sentience or consciousness whatsoever.
When Tuvix was created, it is very likely to say that Tuvok and/or Neelix were ALREADY dead! There were alive in Tuvix only in the sense that two parents "live on" in their offspring. That is unless you want to argue that Tuvix was like a Trill and literally had two consciousnesses in one physical body. But the Tuvix episode implied he was a new single individual consciousness formed by combining their DNA (exactly like an offspring of two parents). Again unless Tuvix had multiple consciousness within the same body, Tuvok and/or Neelix (at least one of the two) DIED ALREADY.
So IF Tuvix, was for all intents and purposes, is equivalent to a new offspring, then it reasonable to theorize that:
1) The transporter "mated" Tuvok and Neelix into Tuvix the offspring. But in the process, the "parents" were killed. (unless you want to argue that Tuvix had multiple consciousnesses within him like a Trill)
2) When Tuvok and Neelix were "extracted" from Tuvix, they were simply creating duplicates of Tuvok and Neelix using Tuvix as the source material.
The thing about Tuvix and Second Chances is that consciousnesses are in fact created and destroyed. That is a direct implication! When Tuvix was created at least one consciousness was destroyed. When Tom/Will Riker were both created, at least one new consciousness was created. Based on these two episodes as well as others, it is quite clear that consciousnesses are being created and destroyed because there is no other sensible conclusion.
It would seem that, in the cases of "Tuvix" the transporter can indeed create and destroy consciousness by merging Tuvok and Neelix into one (Tuvix). You're right in that there's no indication that the two consciousness' operate like the Trill do. But this seems to be a freak accident, not at all a regular occurence and not enough to offset what the transporter can do - at least, in my mind. With "Second Chances" it's less I think a creation of consciousness and more a "twinning." Technically, you're right, it is a creation of consciousness, but at the moment of creation it's a duplicate - which later is proved to be his own person by developing differently. Not sure what the theological implications of this are, but since Will was clearly unharmed, I'm inclined to not be bothered by it as far as practicality goes.
Your comparison between two people mating to create an offspring and the case of Tuvix are completely different.
Two people mate to create an individual that will carry on their genetic material, Tuvix was created by a Transporter Malfunction that took the matter and bio-patterns and fused them together.
Are you saying that people only mate to create an offspring on purpose? Are "accidental" creations less valuable than those which are conceived intentionally?
Had the procedure to seperate the two original individuals not been a relatively straight forward procedure, then we could argue that Tuvix had a right to live.
That's a terrible argument - why does difficulty or simplicity of procedure determine right-to-life? It's pretty straight forward to shoot somebody, after all, and life support during comas is expensive.
Tuvix had every right to live - it wasn't his fault that he was created by accident, and what was done to him was execution.
