Yes, but shouldn't those pipes be HIDDEN?
You don't see all the water and gas lines in your house, do you? Those are hidden away in the floors and walls. Same story here. All pipes should be hidden unless they need to be used all the time.
THIS was the design for the NEW engine room???
- Thread starter RAMA
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Yes, but shouldn't those pipes be HIDDEN?
You don't see all the water and gas lines in your house, do you? Those are hidden away in the floors and walls. Same story here. All pipes should be hidden unless they need to be used all the time.
That's a specious analogy.
A starship's engineering section isn't a house. You don't see the pipes on the bridge, sickbay, or crew quarters -- those are more equivalent to an office and a house. The engineering section, though, is more analogous to, say, a power plant, utility room, refinery, or other industrial space where maintenance access, not comfort, is a priority, like, oh, a brewery.
Hiding the pipes only works for residential areas of a ship where appearances are pretty important. In the engineering sections, you want to be able to access the pipes quickly and easily in order to cut off any leaks, which means leaving the pipes exposed.
Why? It only complicates the work of fixing them when they break down.
I do in the basement, yes. Everywhere else in the house they are hidden for aesthetics purposes, which are frankly irrelevant in an engine room.
There is a very good argument as to why a good deal of the hardware/plumbing should and needs to be hidden. Take into account current human spaceflight standards, where any mechanical systems that could potentially injury an astronaut, and doesn't need to accessed on a routine-mission basis, are concealed and covered.
These standards I would think would still be in effect, if not more stringent.
As far as accessibility, quick release panels would easily satisfy both requirements of safety and maintenance.
This Ryan Church layout seems to address safety standards to a degree, with the railings to keep personnel separated/protected from the equipment.
When I saw the brewery engineering on screen I couldn't help but keep saying to myself "No, No, No............"
Even modern day cruise ships have a better safety standards than what appears to be in the NuEnterprise's Engineering.
These standards I would think would still be in effect, if not more stringent.
As far as accessibility, quick release panels would easily satisfy both requirements of safety and maintenance.
This Ryan Church layout seems to address safety standards to a degree, with the railings to keep personnel separated/protected from the equipment.
When I saw the brewery engineering on screen I couldn't help but keep saying to myself "No, No, No............"
Even modern day cruise ships have a better safety standards than what appears to be in the NuEnterprise's Engineering.
The Space Shuttle makes for a rotten example,as repair work is done on Earth by specialized tech crews,so there is no reason why an astronaut would need to acess the rocket motors in flight.Whatever breaks down is fixed o
after landing.
Obviously the Enterprise doesn't have the luxury of returning to spacedock to fix issues,and in the case of acessing failed parts-especially while under fire-you do NOT want to put anything between the failed part and yourself.
It's like a Dodge Intrepid sedan that needs to have a fron wheel removed to change the battery.It sure looks neat having a clean engine bay-but you'll be spending an hour changing a simple part.
Scotty's dilemma is a great example.Imagine if the piping system was hidden behind a wall?
That's just the existing TOS set with the catwalks and piping added; I also rebuilt the central island and floor so that it now clearly descends below the floor and one can see additional conduits and hardware down there, and those two domes now have a full chamber below them, and those assemblies can elevate out of the island about 3'. There's still more to add, such as another monitor station on the catwalk where the largest pipes go into the 'manifold' area.
I wouldn't necessarily think it claustrophobic, but I was struck by how little floor space there actually was in the original set, not to mention how many different ways they moved the equipment, walls and consoles around, depending upon the needs of the episode. Here's an overhead shot that shows the floor layout a little better (the overhead pipes are omitted for clarity):
It never was a huge space - the camera "added 10' "
. This is my idea of a "4th season" upgrade to the set.
Yeah, I always imagined at least one guy in engineering from TOS having a complete nervous breakdown about once a week due to claustrophobia.
The original engine room design was good. To me, it was always one of the more noticeably masterful ways they utilized the sets to make up for the small budget.
The original engine room design was good. To me, it was always one of the more noticeably masterful ways they utilized the sets to make up for the small budget.
While my personal taste tends to gravitate towards larger spaces, for a upgrade to the TOS set this is very well done.
I wouldn't necessarily think it claustrophobic, but I was struck by how little floor space there actually was in the original set, not to mention how many different ways they moved the equipment, walls and consoles around, depending upon the needs of the episode... <snip picture>
It never was a huge space - the camera "added 10' "
It sure looked pretty big when Kirk and Khan were fighting in it!
I can think of a good argument against the huge-open-engineering model we got in the movie: compartmentalization. A radiation leakage on the NuEngineering would necessitate evacuation of the whole brewery. Everything tucked away behind bulkheads - with Jeffries tubes for access to components - makes more sense. It's just not as AWESOME! i guess.
What do you mean by that?
As in huge, visually impressive, etc. Which is what they seem to be going for, with the 700+ meter Enterprise with gigantoid nacelles. I think a realistic Engineering would look pretty dull - a main reactor room that isn't that large, lots of Jeffries tubes... TOS, in other words.
Edit: or the NX-01. I really liked that engine room design.
Visually impressive and realistic are not concepts that exclude each other. The brewery wasn't as realistic as it could have been, but I think the other sets and exterior in the new movie do show that the concepts can go well together.
This is very true. We saw that we can have both visually impressive and realistic when we saw the bridge set of the Kelvin (and the Ent, if they just toned down some of those lights lol)
Since they were going for realism for Engineering, this is whould have added even more validity in my opinion, NASA Goddard Thermal Vacuum Chamber:
1962
2002
I believe JPL in CA has a similar set up as well, and most likely would have accomodated the production team (these are generally used only about 3-4 times a year)
^^ Hmm, I don't know. Going through that kind of trouble so simulate a space environment and accompanying hazards, when all they have to do is shove the part to be tested out of an airlock...
Thanks! I'm hoping it will 'photograph' well in 3D animation.
I like that they (JJCrew) tried to make a more industrial-seeming engineering space than, say, TOS had, but to me, the brewery just looked too much like Scotty's private hobby room
; even without prior knowledge, it was too obvious to me that I was looking at a contemporary brewery. Ryan's painting is spot-on, for me, in rebooting engineering as a workspace, implying visually that there is a lot of action happening and, perhaps, barely being contained, which is how I imagine a warp drive generation station to be. And I've seen - and more importantly, not noticed - enough scene-filling CGI of mechanical and architectural elements that I know it could've been done both invisibly and convincingly. Given the cost of even the minimal set dressing they added to the brewery, I can't believe it would've been outside the budget to extend a minimal physical set this way; the necessary match movement has come so far that it's literally a desktop exercise now, where anyone can do convincing major CGI sets for less than $5000 in modeling, matching and rendering software.
Count me as another who would have preferred the OP's concept art used for the bridge rather than what we got.
Interesting. With that color scheme, that bridge kinda reminds me of the Enterprise-E bridge.
Damn straight. The Kamino cloning facility in Attack of the Clones is a perfect example of that.
Interesting. With that color scheme, that bridge kinda reminds me of the Enterprise-E bridge.
And just for the record, that concept art could have been realized in a number of ways on screen. It could have been done as a practical gantry with bulk of the set and machinery realized as a composite of miniature and CGI. ILM made that kind of work a benchmark in the Star Wars prequels. Most people would be hard pressed to figure out what was real and what wasn't when those elements are mixed correctly.
Damn straight. The Kamino cloning facility in Attack of the Clones is a perfect example of that.
I always pictured the classic TOS engine room as being slightly larger and more expansive than the set...a few areas we never got to see because of the limits of the budget and design in the late 60s.
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