Size Of The New Enterprise (large images)

[SonicRanger]

But I can provide the exact quote of what John Eaves said about what happened with Geoffrey Mandel.

That's called hearsay... and it's possibly a tongue-in-cheek interpretation of the situation.

Besides, if he was using company time and resources for a side project, especially on a production that was so concerned about secrecy, then it wouldn't be so unbelievable that he'd be fired for that. Perhaps he wasn't authorized to access the Enterprise design files, or perhaps the producers were concerned this project was something that could be leaked or something that he intended to sell.

 

[Silversmok3]

But I can provide the exact quote of what John Eaves said about what happened with Geoffrey Mandel.

That's called hearsay... and it's possibly a tongue-in-cheek interpretation of the situation.

Besides, if he was using company time and resources for a side project, especially on a production that was so concerned about secrecy, then it wouldn't be so unbelievable that he'd be fired for that. Perhaps he wasn't authorized to access the Enterprise design files, or perhaps the producers were concerned this project was something that could be leaked or something that he intended to sell.

I'll offer another theory by saying that once management discovered the side project,they had to sack him to make an example-This is what will happen if you're caught misbehaving.Otherwise the other effects staff would feel they could get away with their own side projects,and ILM would be playing damage control trying to police their own staff after the fact.

 

[Shaw]

My bad, I was sleepy and meant Mandel. Geez, is that how the bad rumors start? Sorry!

Not a problem... I was just surprised at hearing Drexler's name associated with the film.

_________​

But I can provide the exact quote of what John Eaves said about what happened with Geoffrey Mandel.

That's called hearsay... and it's possibly a tongue-in-cheek interpretation of the situation.

True... and I don't attempt to represent it as anything more substantial than what it is.

Not like other people who take an Eaves quote like, oh... say this:

"She was always planned to be a huge ship. No scaling up, and the original TOS wasn’t even used as a measuring rod. They set out to make a big ship... set a rough figure of measurement and then went for it!"​

and attempt to pass it off as if he has some authoritative knowledge on the subject when he himself said (on the very same page):

"it was all over the place in scale when I was there and there was never a version less than 3000 feet in the talks. I was done in October of 07 and the size had not been defined as of yet but it was monstrously huge in all the talks when they were trying to work out the deck counts... this one is still a big mystery and I am sure once the actual figure is announced no one will buy it with all the cross talk going on!!!! HAAA!"​

Apparently it is all just as big a mystery to him as it is to the rest of us.

Hearsay... the only place worse than using them in posts on a BBS would be in signatures on a BBS.

Besides, if he was using company time and resources for a side project, especially on a production that was so concerned about secrecy, then it wouldn't be so unbelievable that he'd be fired for that. Perhaps he wasn't authorized to access the Enterprise design files, or perhaps the producers were concerned this project was something that could be leaked or something that he intended to sell.

Supposition... move to strike.

 

[SonicRanger]

I'll offer another theory by saying that once management discovered the side project,they had to sack him to make an example-This is what will happen if you're caught misbehaving.Otherwise the other effects staff would feel they could get away with their own side projects,and ILM would be playing damage control trying to police their own staff after the fact.

I can easily see if being a case of this combine with Eaves' explanation: an example was made of him because his job was to work on the film at hand and not waste time on "dumb Trekkie stuff" like making size charts. If the boss wants everyone to concentrate on making the best visuals even if it requires fudging sizes here and there (like every Trek has done, including the iconic visuals of WNMHGB) but you turn around and start making size charts, then you shouldn't be surprised at the result.

Besides, if he was using company time and resources for a side project, especially on a production that was so concerned about secrecy, then it wouldn't be so unbelievable that he'd be fired for that. Perhaps he wasn't authorized to access the Enterprise design files, or perhaps the producers were concerned this project was something that could be leaked or something that he intended to sell.

Supposition... move to strike.

Of course it is supposition -- but if supposition isn't allowed here, then (1) obviously hearsay isn't allowed, and (2) we're not going to have much to talk about.

 

[Silversmok3]

Besides, if he was using company time and resources for a side project, especially on a production that was so concerned about secrecy, then it wouldn't be so unbelievable that he'd be fired for that. Perhaps he wasn't authorized to access the Enterprise design files, or perhaps the producers were concerned this project was something that could be leaked or something that he intended to sell.

Supposition... move to strike.

Of course it is supposition -- but if supposition isn't allowed here, then (1) obviously hearsay isn't allowed, and (2) we're not going to have much to talk about.

24 pages of supposition and illogical speculation,this thread is.

 

[dougkeenan]

imagine this argument if only ...

(0195)

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Actually you did in comment #1452

My name aint SonicRanger, bub.

 

[SonicRanger]

I've been very lucky in that the sizes of the ships I've designed stayed pretty much where I intended. However, I'm sure my similar-era colleagues would all remind folks that we were not the ones running the zoo, and things changed even when we specified certain designs be certain sizes or shapes or colors. We were just playing in someone else's sandbox, and folks higher up the food chain made decisions we didn't necessarily agree with. That's just the biz. I can't speak to the design situation of the new movie, since I wasn't there, but I don't believe that the original designers of ships and other hardware seen in the film had the last word.

Rick

Oh, I know. We've talked about this issue before here, especially with regard to the producers' roles in designing Voyager, which you've been kind enough to discuss here as well as in the Star Trek magazine. In particular, how the original study model of Voyager was changed so radically to its final design because of the request handed down by Jeri Taylor to make the ship more curvy, like a Lexus. It has been a pleasure to have these sights from you and many of the others I listed, explaining the collaborative process (i.e., design by committee) that goes into designing a hero starship. It just seems that, in this case, ILM was essentially handed a concept sketch that they significantly fleshed out. I assume this reflects, at least in part, the difference between modelbuilding and CGI artistry.

 

[trevanian]

Actually you did in comment #1452

My name aint SonicRanger, bub.

It's often a near thing when you guys post close to one another.

 

[trevanian]

It just seems that, in this case, ILM was essentially handed a concept sketch that they significantly fleshed out. I assume this reflects, at least in part, the difference between modelbuilding and CGI artistry.

Depends on the circumstance and the parties involved. ILM has in the past been handed a list and a license to do go nuts with it, and other times been given insanely specific stuff that they had to rigorously conform to, and with both scenarios that was with physical modelbuiding.

The 6ft -d was something ILM had to build without any input on the design at all.

The RELIANT from TWOK had to conform to Paramount designs.

Everything in SFS was ILM-designed, even stuff that should have been way outside of their operating zone (tricorders, klingon dogs, etc.)

The e-e went from Eaves to eventual approval, then through what he described as a packaging by Rick, and then on to ILM, which only altered the model when it was found production couldn't build the full size deflector said to match to the model, so the model had to be altered and already-done shots discarded. (thought to be fair, Eaves also said he left certain areas of the model less detailed, so ILM could exercise some creativity.)

 

[Mangledduk]

I've been very lucky in that the sizes of the ships I've designed stayed pretty much where I intended. However, I'm sure my similar-era colleagues would all remind folks that we were not the ones running the zoo, and things changed even when we specified certain designs be certain sizes or shapes or colors. We were just playing in someone else's sandbox, and folks higher up the food chain made decisions we didn't necessarily agree with. That's just the biz. I can't speak to the design situation of the new movie, since I wasn't there, but I don't believe that the original designers of ships and other hardware seen in the film had the last word.

Rick

I find the post by Rick Sternbach to be very enlightening, thank you sir for your input. It is because of members like you that I continue to check in on this board from time to time How I wish your technical expertise would have been leaned on for this last movie, then perhaps this thread would not exist

 

[Mangledduk]

Actually you did in comment #1452

My name aint SonicRanger, bub.

You are right, my bad I offer my apologies

 

[Richard Baker]

I just got a copy of CineFex #118 with the NuEnterprise on the cover- a beauty shot of it leaving Saturn.
I just noticed an interesting thing about the windows on the saucer rim- they are not windows. In this picture you can see them are larger recessed areas with a number of tiny windows inside them. From this angle you can see the 'ceiling' of the recessed area has lighting.I do not remeber this detail from the movie, which I have seen only once, but the cover is a good hi-res image.
Has anybody else seen this before?

.

 

[SalvorHardin]

I just got a copy of CineFex #118 with the NuEnterprise on the cover- a beauty shot of it leaving Saturn.
I just noticed an interesting thing about the windows on the saucer rim- they are not windows. In this picture you can see them are larger recessed areas with a number of tiny windows inside them. From this angle you can see the 'ceiling' of the recessed area has lighting.I do not remeber this detail from the movie, which I have seen only once, but the cover is a good hi-res image.
Has anybody else seen this before?

.

Could you perhaps scan the picture and post it ?

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

I just got a copy of CineFex #118 with the NuEnterprise on the cover- a beauty shot of it leaving Saturn.
I just noticed an interesting thing about the windows on the saucer rim- they are not windows. In this picture you can see them are larger recessed areas with a number of tiny windows inside them. From this angle you can see the 'ceiling' of the recessed area has lighting.I do not remeber this detail from the movie, which I have seen only once, but the cover is a good hi-res image.
Has anybody else seen this before?

.

Could you perhaps scan the picture and post it ?

I would second a high-res scan over the cover, since I have no way )that I know) of legally obtaining the magazine.

 

[Lt. Trull]

I just got a copy of CineFex #118 with the NuEnterprise on the cover- a beauty shot of it leaving Saturn.
I just noticed an interesting thing about the windows on the saucer rim- they are not windows. In this picture you can see them are larger recessed areas with a number of tiny windows inside them. From this angle you can see the 'ceiling' of the recessed area has lighting.I do not remeber this detail from the movie, which I have seen only once, but the cover is a good hi-res image.
Has anybody else seen this before?

.

of course there not windows.... transparent aluminum... their walls...

 

[Richard Baker]

Here are two scans- My scanner at the house is not as good as the one at work, I will recan them there on Monday-

 

[Peter the Younger]

^ Looks like ceiling lighting to me.

Drop ceiling lighting, actually. (The Enterprise is a cube farm!)

I don't think that invalidates the larger size, though. Those could easily be full wall height windows.

 

[Richard Baker]

Look at the top image- the small white horizontal dashes. Those look more like smaller windows inside a larger hull cutout to me...

.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Here are two scans- My scanner at the house is not as good as the one at work, I will recan them there on Monday-

Thanks.
It would be nice if you can do a good scan of the whole picture. it makes for a killer wallpaper