Better to start as a sinner and be able to work your way up than to start at the top and get knocked down.
Gay Exorcism!?!?!
- Thread starter miraclefan
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Better to start as a sinner and be able to work your way up than to start at the top and get knocked down.
Better to start as a sinner and be able to work your way up than to start at the top and get knocked down.
So ... start as a bottom and then become a top?
That is certainly one way to interpret what I said.
Better to start as a sinner and be able to work your way up than to start at the top and get knocked down.
So ... start as a bottom and then become a top?
I'm a sinner too, the instant I was born. Nobody escapes that, well, one man did, but he is with his father now.
What can i say, i have a gift.That is certainly one way to interpret what I said.Better to start as a sinner and be able to work your way up than to start at the top and get knocked down.
So ... start as a bottom and then become a top?
A
Amaris
Guest
Then you will find that happiness. It is my goal to make it possible for you and those like you to have the right to marry the person you love, regardless of gender.
As I stated above, freewill is amazing, and it is surely your choice to do so. I've simply offered another choice, one that leads to true happiness, true peacefulness, and a love that is unconditional. I know what my choice is.
No hard feelings, and I wish you well
With all due respect (and I mean that), happiness, peace and love for whom? For Shameless? Apparently not. The problem is, the mantra is "God loves you for who you are" with the proviso "as long as you're exactly what he wants you to be" as an implied follow-up. How does living a life with unfulfilled love make him happy or peaceful? How does being denied that need to consumate that love in spiritual unity bring more love? It makes no sense, it does not follow.
Edited to add another thought: Why is God more interested in what you have in your pants rather than what you have in your heart? It seems to me that the only people who are happy are the people who don't need to care about it and don't understand it. Plus, you cannot tell me that with 50% of the divorce rate being Christian marriages, that happiness, peace and love will follow you into heterosexuality. I think you should give up all sex, never get married. See a beautiful woman and chastise yourself that you don't want her or want to be with her. Become a monk, become a nun, rid yourselves of all earthly desires, only then will you find happiness, peace and love, and only because you will have driven away your humanity and will have no need of them. If God wanted Vulcans he'd have made Vulcans. He made humans.
J.
Then you will find that happiness. It is my goal to make it possible for you and those like you to have the right to marry the person you love, regardless of gender.
As I stated above, freewill is amazing, and it is surely your choice to do so. I've simply offered another choice, one that leads to true happiness, true peacefulness, and a love that is unconditional. I know what my choice is.
No hard feelings, and I wish you well
With all due respect (and I mean that), happiness, peace and love for whom? For Shameless? Apparently not. The problem is, the mantra is "God loves you for who you are" with the proviso "as long as you're exactly what he wants you to be" as an implied follow-up. How does living a life with unfulfilled love make him happy or peaceful? How does being denied that need to consumate that love in spiritual unity bring more love? It makes no sense, it does not follow. Why is God more interested in what you have in your pants rather than what you have in your heart?
J.
J, you've said it better than i ever could. I love you man, you're one of the good ones.
But, ya know, not in a gay way.
I'm just speaking from what the Bible says, and I believe that is how we are to live our lives, and all God wants from us is to trust in him completely, that is done by accepting and having faith in his son Jesus Christ. My sin separates me from God, but having faith in his son bridges that gap. This is what I believe, and I'm not telling you what to do, only stating what I believe.
Now I think we've certainly gone off topic
Now I think we've certainly gone off topic
It is a burden I must carry alone.
You're like the Jesus of my religion. Save me, Ro, save me!
A
Amaris
Guest
I love you too, Shameless. I do want to say though, that Brent is one of the good ones. He doesn't believe as you or I do, but as far as I know, he's not out actively trying to stop you from loving whom you want to love. Those who wish to legislate your right to love someone are the enemy, who want to imprison you for what you do with another consenting adult in the privacy of your own home, and the thing is, they don't need to be the enemy. They can be brought around to see it in a new light, there is hope, there is faith, and to each heart there is grace. If only their hearts can be challenged.
J.
Regular exorcisms are stupid enough, but a "gay" exorcism? 
I would say this is unbelievable, but there's pretty much no ridiculous behaviour I would put past fundamentalist nuts like this. Did they say what denomination this church was, BTW?
Oh, and did anyone read some of the comments about that article on the site? God, most of those people are fucking morons, talking about how homosexuality is a choice and a sin, and how homosexuals aren't looking for equality but rather for a way of furthering the "gay agenda". I'm usually a pretty peaceful, laid-back guy, but these people make me want to... hit something.
J. Allen, I really wish more religious people were like you. I'll echo Shameless and say that I love you man -- in a platonic sense, of course.
I would say this is unbelievable, but there's pretty much no ridiculous behaviour I would put past fundamentalist nuts like this. Did they say what denomination this church was, BTW?Oh, and did anyone read some of the comments about that article on the site? God, most of those people are fucking morons, talking about how homosexuality is a choice and a sin, and how homosexuals aren't looking for equality but rather for a way of furthering the "gay agenda". I'm usually a pretty peaceful, laid-back guy, but these people make me want to... hit something.
J. Allen, I really wish more religious people were like you. I'll echo Shameless and say that I love you man -- in a platonic sense, of course.
A
Amaris
Guest
J. Allen, I really wish more religious people were like you. I'll echo Shameless and say that I love you man -- in a platonic sense, of course.
Bless your heart (and I love you too), but I must say that I am very flawed, and am not a good role model or icon for religious people.
J.
That might be why you do it so well.J. Allen, I really wish more religious people were like you. I'll echo Shameless and say that I love you man -- in a platonic sense, of course.
Bless your heart (and I love you too), but I must say that I am very flawed, and am not a good role model or icon for religious people.
J.
J. Allen, I really wish more religious people were like you. I'll echo Shameless and say that I love you man -- in a platonic sense, of course.
Bless your heart (and I love you too), but I must say that I am very flawed, and am not a good role model or icon for religious people.
J.
Oh, and you're modest too! I think my non-sexual crush on you is getting bigger.
As for being flawed -- well, I don't doubt it. None of us --none of us-- are perfect. But I must disagree with your assessment of yourself as not a good role model for religious people... and I think a lot of people here would disagree with you about that too.
A
Amaris
Guest
I'm just who I am, though, I promise you.
Oh, and you're modest too! I think my non-sexual crush on you is getting bigger.
As for being flawed -- well, I don't doubt it. None of us --none of us-- are perfect. But I must disagree with your assessment of yourself as not a good role model for religious people... and I think a lot of people here would disagree with you about that too.
Well.. I don't like the idea of people holding onto my words as if they're the gospel truth. Oh, I love to point people in the direction of where I believe they can experience God for themselves, but I don't want to ever have any kind of "authority" when it comes to someone's spirit. That's an entirely personal thing. I will give you advice, help you any way I can, but telling you what to do? I couldn't do it. It's one of the reasons I am not a fan of most churches. "Do this" and "do that" and "only THIS way will you find God, no other way", and telling people what they must believe, what they must behave like, how they MUST feel, it bothers me.
J.
Of course... I would never suggest you try to run people's lives and tell them what and what not to do. I'm not a fan of that either. Fortunately, it's not a requirement for being a role model. All you need to do is, as you said, give advice and help people, and hope that you can affect their lives in some positive way. You never know how you might inspire someone to change their life for the better just by explaining what it is you believe and why you believe it. There's no need to encourage them to believe exactly as you believe, but they might just take something away from their encounter with you -- some food for thought, at the least.
It's true, not everyone's cut out to be a role model, and I wouldn't propose putting yourself on some sort of pedestal, but I still think you are definitely someone in the religious community for others to look up to... for whatever that's worth, coming from a deeply non-religious man like myself.
But I know, you're humble -- another trait to be admired.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
You are in no position whatsoever to determine, dictate, or define what "true" happiness, peacefulness, or love are to anyone except yourself.
That means precisely dick when it comes to whatever it is that makes Shameless or anyone else happy.
More than anything, this tendency to assume you have the right to dictate to others how to live their lives has driven me away from organized religion.
Perhaps when this particular contingent of said organized religion --and of which Brent has repeatedly demonstrated he belongs to-- will learn to keep their mouths shut with regard to telling other people how to live their lives, I might take religion more seriously.
As it stands, really, apart from a flailing desire to not break my parents' hearts and the examples of acceptance set forth by people like J. Allen and Mark de vries, I really don't see what religion has to offer me in my life other than hypocrisy, shameful discriminatory attitudes, misbegotten and retellings of ancient history and sheer stupidity.
Way to score one for the team, Brent!
