Enough of this 'nuJJ' stuff . . .

[trampledamage]

All right, thank you both, trampledamage and 3D Master; that clears it up for me. The terms confused me for a bit; English isn't my first language.

However, I don't think Kirk is a womanizer, either in TOS or in Star Trek. We didn't saw any proof that Kirk had the 'womanizer' aspects; just that he had a flingie with the Orion girl, or did we?

And given Kirk's surprise that Gaila has brought other men back to her dorm, it's not necessarily just a fling either, but a relationship he was enjoying during his time at the academy.

I think both Kirks love to flirt and both have a lot of personal charm. It would be odd to think that either Kirk would live as a monk during his time in Starfleet, so women are going to be a part of his life.

 

[3D Master]

Which women did "nuKirk" seduce, use and toss aside without a single shred of care about what they think or feel?

Gaila? I don't remember him tossing her aside and she didn't seem hurt or heartbroken, either.

Which other women did Kirk get it on in the movie?

And how do you know whether original Kirk made women feel good, sexy, strong and confident for having shared his bed?

He's an arrogant asshat who treats everyone as if they're lucky and should be grateful to be in the same room with him. The way he approached Uhura in the bar; there was no charm there, it was pure arrogance and disrespect. One reason Uhura was putting him down every chance she got, and why the rest of her team mates were so adamant about kicking Kirk's keister into the ground.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Which women did "nuKirk" seduce, use and toss aside without a single shred of care about what they think or feel?

Gaila? I don't remember him tossing her aside and she didn't seem hurt or heartbroken, either.

Which other women did Kirk get it on in the movie?

And how do you know whether original Kirk made women feel good, sexy, strong and confident for having shared his bed?

He's an arrogant asshat who treats everyone as if they're lucky and should be grateful to be in the same room with him. The way he approached Uhura in the bar; there was no charm there, it was pure arrogance and disrespect. One reason Uhura was putting him down every chance she got, and why the rest of her team mates were so adamant about kicking Kirk's keister into the ground.

Arrogance? Yes. Charm? Yes. Disrespect? No, don't think so.

Arrogance isn't always a negative thing. Everybody knows I'm the most attractive guy on the planet.

 

[DevilEyes]

Which women did "nuKirk" seduce, use and toss aside without a single shred of care about what they think or feel?

Gaila? I don't remember him tossing her aside and she didn't seem hurt or heartbroken, either.

Which other women did Kirk get it on in the movie?

And how do you know whether original Kirk made women feel good, sexy, strong and confident for having shared his bed?

He's an arrogant asshat who treats everyone as if they're lucky and should be grateful to be in the same room with him. The way he approached Uhura in the bar; there was no charm there, it was pure arrogance and disrespect. One reason Uhura was putting him down every chance she got, and why the rest of her team mates were so adamant about kicking Kirk's keister into the ground.

The way he approached Uhura in the bar was very typical and seen many times in immature young men who still don't really know how to approach women... he didn't seem arrogant or womanizing, he just acted like a jerk, or to be precise, an immature, drunk young jerk. He was obviously far from becoming a smooth-talking charmer, but that's not surprising, since he's supposed to be 22, screwed-up and directionless. As for the guys at the bar just seemed the kind of guys who are looking for a fight, whatever the reason, so why not choose an annoying local jerk as a target.

 

[3D Master]

Which women did "nuKirk" seduce, use and toss aside without a single shred of care about what they think or feel?

Gaila? I don't remember him tossing her aside and she didn't seem hurt or heartbroken, either.

Which other women did Kirk get it on in the movie?

And how do you know whether original Kirk made women feel good, sexy, strong and confident for having shared his bed?

He's an arrogant asshat who treats everyone as if they're lucky and should be grateful to be in the same room with him. The way he approached Uhura in the bar; there was no charm there, it was pure arrogance and disrespect. One reason Uhura was putting him down every chance she got, and why the rest of her team mates were so adamant about kicking Kirk's keister into the ground.

Arrogance? Yes. Charm? Yes. Disrespect? No, don't think so.

Arrogance? Yes. Charm? Heck no. Disrespect? All over the place.

Arrogance isn't always a negative thing. Everybody knows I'm the most attractive guy on the planet.

No, arrogance is ALWAYS a negative thing. Confidence is a good thing. But the two are very very different.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

No, arrogance is ALWAYS a negative thing. Confidence is a good thing. But the two are very very different.

If you're making that distinction (most people don't), then you are definitely right. But then I didn't see arrogance; I saw confidence. Confidence in his looks, his intelligence and his ability to pick up a woman even when not sober.

 

[indranee]

He's an arrogant asshat who treats everyone as if they're lucky and should be grateful to be in the same room with him.

oh? exactly whom does he treat that way? can you give us ALL the examples? apparently, it's EVERYBODY.

so, examples, please.

 

[indranee]

it's improbable

anyway, it's a myth. see it debunked:

http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html

Engrish isn't my first language.

And no, it isn't debunked; all it proves it that Kirk didn't sleep with many women on the show. Didn't mean that he didn't have that womanizer image, since he did. And that implies a few things; that he likes to flirt, for example. A lot. Just like me.

he *is* a womanizer. that was established in TOS *and* in the new movie. but he isn't a user. there's a difference.

btw, English isn't my first language either. I just happen to be an arrogant typo/grammar nazi in all the languages I know. it's all part of my charm

food for thought for everyone: what's James Bond? a womanizer, a ladies man, or just a plain flirt? I'm a relentless flirt. but I only flirt with people who know the deal. they don't even have to be men. I've been known to flirt with wee babies. and they seem to love it!

(ps. hey, I assume you've been to http://www.engrish.com/ ?) one of my absolute favorite sites!

 

[FailedLurker]

Have you seen early S1 lately? Kirk's behavior towards women really is embarrassing. And one could argue with the description of Kirk as "womanizing" in the new movie - we only see him with two women. He tries to pick up Uhura in a bar, and we later see him with Gaila. Outside of a couple of comments in passing, that's it.

Maybe you should go watch S1 again.

Yeah, I've been working my way through the blue ray set the last few weeks, that's why those eps are fresh in my mind. In Charlie X, for instance, Kirk is unable to explain why it's wrong for Charlie to smack Yeoman Rand on the ass whenever he wants. In The Man Trap, Kirk spends the first part of the episode ogling another man's wife, until he realizes she's really a space monster. We never do find out what Kirk did to Dr. Helen Noel that he was so reluctant to go on an away mission with her in Dagger of the Mind. One of the first things id-Kirk does in The Enemy Within is try to rape Rand. In Conscience of the King, 33-year-old Kirk leads on 19-year-old Lenore Karidian in an attempt to entrap her father. In Miri, 33-year-old Kirk leads on a prepubescent girl to get her help curing a disease. Kirk uses Mudd's Women as baubles to barter for engine crystals. And all of this is just from the first half of Season 1.

And of course, Captain Kirk knows how to treat the ladies.

And again; it's a natural disaster. There's no blame on the Federation and Spock anywhere. The fact that he does, essentially blame the western world for not stopping the 2004 Tsunami, and for that destroy every western city - means he's a deranged, maniacal serial killer, who only needed something to set him off; and his entire crew right along with him. Only someone screwed up in the head, even before the event, would blame people for a natural disaster.

Yeah, it's not like anyone has ever blamed a person or group of people for the damage caused by a natural disaster.

All I got was "an engineer", never "chief engineer".

When the Enterprise is taking damage after arriving at Vulcan, it's Olsen that Pike calls for a report from Engineering. Pike later referrs to him as "Engineer Olsen" which is generally a title reserved for the chief engineer.

Of course, as above; this only shifts the problem to the idiocy of the chief engineer going into a battle situation with bombs strapped to his back. This should have been a security officer; in fact they ALL should have been security officers. It's ridiculous that Pike has to ask whether there are any people with advanced hand to hand training, when he should have been paging the people he knows have that training, and are specifically trained to do the missions he sent Kirk, Sulu and Olson on: SECURITY.

Well, yeah, but if you send trained security officers on dangerous missions then none of the main characters get to do anything interesting. So for the sake of drama the main characters go on missions. See: damn near every bit of Trek ever produced.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

In Charlie X, for instance, Kirk is unable to explain why it's wrong for Charlie to smack Yeoman Rand on the ass whenever he wants.

What's wrong with that? Women get to do that too, you know. And I should know, women always assume that privilege, without asking. But I don't mind; it's a compliment after all.

In The Man Trap, Kirk spends the first part of the episode ogling another man's wife, until he realizes she's really a space monster.

As if, when you're married, people suddenly may not ogle you any longer. What nonsense. Ogling is free and non-harmful in any way.

We never do find out what Kirk did to Dr. Helen Noel that he was so reluctant to go on an away mission with her in Dagger of the Mind. [..] Kirk uses Mudd's Women as baubles to barter for engine crystals.

Can't recall that, can you refresh my mind?

One of the first things id-Kirk does in The Enemy Within is try to rape Rand.

Yes, rape is bad. But I'm not so convinced it was rape at all.

In Conscience of the King, 33-year-old Kirk leads on 19-year-old Lenore Karidian in an attempt to entrap her father.

Can't a 33-year old guy have a nice, young green leave? I plan to have a 18-year old myself when I'm double that age.

In Miri, 33-year-old Kirk leads on a prepubescent girl to get her help curing a disease.

I didn't see him have sex; or passionately kissing her or anything. Flirting is of all ages.

All in all, not very convincing points.

 

[3D Master]

it's improbable

anyway, it's a myth. see it debunked:

http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html

Engrish isn't my first language.

And no, it isn't debunked; all it proves it that Kirk didn't sleep with many women on the show. Didn't mean that he didn't have that womanizer image, since he did. And that implies a few things; that he likes to flirt, for example. A lot. Just like me.

he *is* a womanizer. that was established in TOS *and* in the new movie. but he isn't a user. there's a difference.

Again, NO, is is NOT, and it was NOT established in TOS.

Yeah, I've been working my way through the blue ray set the last few weeks, that's why those eps are fresh in my mind. In Charlie X, for instance, Kirk is unable to explain why it's wrong for Charlie to smack Yeoman Rand on the ass whenever he wants.

Which has got nothing to do with womanizing.

In The Man Trap, Kirk spends the first part of the episode ogling another man's wife, until he realizes she's really a space monster.

Which has got nothing to do with womanizing.

We never do find out what Kirk did to Dr. Helen Noel that he was so reluctant to go on an away mission with her in Dagger of the Mind.

Absolutely nothing.

One of the first things id-Kirk does in The Enemy Within is try to rape Rand.

Exactly: ID-Kirk. ID-Kirk is not Kirk. And again, raping a woman isn't womanizing, it's a whole lot worse than that.

In Conscience of the King, 33-year-old Kirk leads on 19-year-old Lenore Karidian in an attempt to entrap her father.

Which doesn't make him a womanizer at all, quite the contrary.

In Miri, 33-year-old Kirk leads on a prepubescent girl to get her help curing a disease.

No, he didn't. Being friendly with someone from the opposite sex, doesn't mean you're leading hem on. There's no womanizing going on.

Kirk uses Mudd's Women as baubles to barter for engine crystals. And all of this is just from the first half of Season 1.

Which has got nothing to do with womanizing, quite the contrary. Besides which, he didn't barter them as baubles at all.

And of course, Captain Kirk knows how to treat the ladies.

Which still doesn't make him a womanizer, it doesn't even strictly speaking make him a ladies man.

Yeah, it's not like anyone has ever blamed a person or group of people for the damage caused by a natural disaster.

Yeah, in case you hadn't noticed friend, but:

a. nobody is blaming him for the hurricane.

b. he should have evacuated the city because he knew Katrina was going to be big; no such problems occurred with Super Nova; the Romulans knew it was coming, they and Spock tried to do something.

c. the major blame is not Katrina, but the lack of anything resembling help AFTER Katrina; there was no AFTER the Super Nova, they went back in time before any significant time passed.

d. Nobody from New Orleans is advocating the nuking of Bush's home town, and DC while he was still the president, and while they're at it the rest of the American cities for proper payback on "letting Katrina happen."

All I got was "an engineer", never "chief engineer".

When the Enterprise is taking damage after arriving at Vulcan, it's Olsen that Pike calls for a report from Engineering. Pike later referrs to him as "Engineer Olsen" which is generally a title reserved for the chief engineer.

No, engineer is engineer, and it is not a title reserved for Chief engineer at all. Every member of the engineering staff is an engineer. Everyone who has graduated technical schools is often an engineer. I'm a software engineer who graduated the technical school for software engineering; officially I have the pre-fix in Dutch "Ing", which in English would be "Eng", short for Engineer. Engineer is officially my title.

Of course, as above; this only shifts the problem to the idiocy of the chief engineer going into a battle situation with bombs strapped to his back. This should have been a security officer; in fact they ALL should have been security officers. It's ridiculous that Pike has to ask whether there are any people with advanced hand to hand training, when he should have been paging the people he knows have that training, and are specifically trained to do the missions he sent Kirk, Sulu and Olson on: SECURITY.

Well, yeah, but if you send trained security officers on dangerous missions then none of the main characters get to do anything interesting. So for the sake of drama the main characters go on missions. See: damn near every bit of Trek ever produced.

Except for that annoying fact that there are plenty of security officers that went on missions alongside the main characters; see the regular redshirts getting killed in TOS. In this movie; not a one. Further, the main cast members were never part of landing party or away teams for their battle prowess, unless they were the Chief of Security.