Enough of this 'nuJJ' stuff . . .

[indranee]

Pine's Kirk, interestingly, lost the "hey, how YOU doin'?" demeanor once he became the acting Captain.

TOS Kirk was a womanizer. he just didn't sleep *on screen or implied* with more than four women (or thereabouts). and much of the "womanizing" was done to save the ship or manipulate circumstances in his crew's favor. Kirk, more often than not, had a goal, and astutely realized he could use his charm to get it rather than force.

I hope the new writers realize this very salient fact about the character.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

So, instead of being an attractive, intelligent young lad; it's supposed to be an asshole who sleeps with random people simply to reach his goals? Doesn't jive with the image I have of Kirk.

 

[indranee]

what the hell are you talking about? I said he only SLEEPS with four women. count them. and all of them he was in love with (except Deela).

he does use his charm instead of force. anyone in that situation should.

 

[DevilEyes]

Pine's Kirk, interestingly, lost the "hey, how YOU doin'?" demeanor once he became the acting Captain.

TOS Kirk was a womanizer. he just didn't sleep *on screen or implied* with more than four women (or thereabouts). and much of the "womanizing" was done to save the ship or manipulate circumstances in his crew's favor. Kirk, more often than not, had a goal, and astutely realized he could use his charm to get it rather than force.

I hope the new writers realize this very salient fact about the character.

Apparently, in the novelization (and therefore, quite likely in the original script as well), one of the reasons he was interested in Gaila was to get info about the Kobayashi Maru test... so apparently, Kirk already is prone to using flirtation and seduction as a weapon.

what the hell are you talking about? I said he only SLEEPS with four women. count them. and all of them he was in love with (except Deela).

he does use his charm instead of force. anyone in that situation should.

There was the comfort girl the proconsul sent to him in "Bread and Circuses", he certainly was not in love with her and it was the episode in which the sex was made the most obvious.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

what the hell are you talking about? I said he only SLEEPS with four women. count them. and all of them he was in love with (except Deela).

That you know of. Remember, what we see on screen only covers a small timespan. Kirk was always seen as a womanizer, it isn't unprobable to see him having slept with hundreds of women in his day.

 

[indranee]

it's improbable

anyway, it's a myth. see it debunked:

http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

it's improbable

anyway, it's a myth. see it debunked:

http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html

Engrish isn't my first language.

And no, it isn't debunked; all it proves it that Kirk didn't sleep with many women on the show. Didn't mean that he didn't have that womanizer image, since he did. And that implies a few things; that he likes to flirt, for example. A lot. Just like me.

 

[trampledamage]

it's improbable

anyway, it's a myth. see it debunked:

http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html

Engrish isn't my first language.

And no, it isn't debunked; all it proves it that Kirk didn't sleep with many women on the show. Didn't mean that he didn't have that womanizer image, since he did. And that implies a few things; that he likes to flirt, for example. A lot. Just like me.

The problem is that "womanizer" has negative connotations. Kirk (both old and new) loves to flirt

 

[3D Master]

Um Olsen you know the flashfried Redshirt, remember him.

He was AN engineer, not the chief engineer.

No, he's listed as the Chief Engineer.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Olson

Well, that doesn't matter. It simply shifts the idiocy to the ffing chief engineer going down to a planet to fight with Romulans and blow up a drill.

Except that Kirk was never a womanizing, let alone egotistical guy, and I've never seen him acrid.

Ermm... Kirk never a womanizing guy? Really?! Never egotistical...never acrid? Not even in TMP or UC? Whatever. This is an opinion, not a fact. You might think that Shatner's Kirk was Flawless Hero and God's gift to mankind without an ego and without a womanizing bone in his body. Let's just say many people might disagree with you there.

He was only acrid to Klingons; he's not acrid the every day people around him. And no, Kirk was never a womanizer, and even when he's with a woman or tries to be, he isn't a total asshole.

I don't see how Pine's Kirk was particularly egotistical, or more so than Shatner's Kirk?

He's an asshole more so than the original Kirk, oh, only in about every way.

Except that there was nothig to get revenge over, and it seemed no one in the crew noticed this little tidbit, making the whole lot of them maniacal serial killers that only needed an excuse to set themselves off.

Yeah, you see, when a tsunami wipes away your village, that's not a reason to blow up every city in the western world because we weren't there to stop the natural disaster. It's why don't see any Chinese, or Indonesian or people of other Tsunami-afflicted countries try to blow up every city in the western world.

In the same way, when a Super Nova - a natural disaster - destroys your planet, that equals to there being nothing to get revenge over.

Except that Kirk was never a womanizing, let alone egotistical guy, and I've never seen him acrid.

Have you seen early S1 lately? Kirk's behavior towards women really is embarrassing. And one could argue with the description of Kirk as "womanizing" in the new movie - we only see him with two women. He tries to pick up Uhura in a bar, and we later see him with Gaila. Outside of a couple of comments in passing, that's it.

Maybe you should go watch S1 again.

I know it's not like they had two entire scenes of expositional dialogue dedicated to explaining this, but Nero blamed the Federation in general, and Spock in particular, for the destruction of Romulus. That's what he was trying to get revenge over.

And again; it's a natural disaster. There's no blame on the Federation and Spock anywhere. The fact that he does, essentially blame the western world for not stopping the 2004 Tsunami, and for that destroy every western city - means he's a deranged, maniacal serial killer, who only needed something to set him off; and his entire crew right along with him. Only someone screwed up in the head, even before the event, would blame people for a natural disaster.

The only space battle that might have been bad ass was a fleet against the Narada and it was off screen because of plot-hole ridding idiocy.

Not sure how "badass" that would have been, it would consist mainly of Starfleet ships getting pasted while causing negligible damage to the enemy.

Like every other one of the "bad ass space battles" we saw, except that it'd be a full on fleet engagement that could have lasted longer than a few seconds.

Also, just because the Narada doesn't get harmed and Starfleet fully loses doesn't make the space battle any less bad ass; in fact, quite the contrary. It would actually MAKE it bad ass.

There was no chief engineer before Scotty.

Um, yes there was. His name was Olsen. He was part of the away team with Kirk and Sulu. He had the charges. Kirk told him several times, by name, to open his chute. He died dramatically. You mentioned him in particular in your "review" in the other thread. How could you miss him?

All I got was "an engineer", never "chief engineer". Of course, as above; this only shifts the problem to the idiocy of the chief engineer going into a battle situation with bombs strapped to his back. This should have been a security officer; in fact they ALL should have been security officers. It's ridiculous that Pike has to ask whether there are any people with advanced hand to hand training, when he should have been paging the people he knows have that training, and are specifically trained to do the missions he sent Kirk, Sulu and Olson on: SECURITY.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

The problem is that "womanizer" has negative connotations. Kirk (both old and new) loves to flirt

Since when? Because that's the first I've heard of it. As far as I know, a womanizer is a guy who's very handsome, charming and likes to flirt a lot; you know, the kinda guy that every woman gets weak knees when he simply walks in the door. The kinda guy that gets to sleep with lots of women at the same time. No negative connotations there.

 

[3D Master]

The problem is that "womanizer" has negative connotations. Kirk (both old and new) loves to flirt

Since when? Because that's the first I've heard of it. As far as I know, a womanizer is a guy who's very handsome, charming and likes to flirt a lot; you know, the kinda guy that every woman gets weak knees when he simply walks in the door. The kinda guy that gets to sleep with lots of women at the same time. No negative connotations there.

No, that would be a "ladies' man".

A womanizer is ruffian buffoon that disrespectfully seduces, uses and tosses aside women, without a single shred of a care what they feel or think about it - most usually by lying, cheating and misleading them. Perfect example of a womanizer would be Parker from S4 Buffy: he went on three dates with Buffy, doing nothing but telling and showing her they were in a relationship together. And the moment he had had her in bed; nothing, nada zilch, in fact he went out of his way to put Buffy down as an idiot and stupid for getting into bed with him.

A "ladies' man" by contrast, would make a woman feel good, sexy, strong and confident for having shared his bed. He would use charm, not lies, to seduce her, and if he's not interested beyond a one-night stand, he would make absolutely sure on before hand she knows this. Should she have had higher expectations anyway, he wouldn't put her down and insult her in public and make her out to be a slut in front of other girls, he'd take her aside in private, and let her down as easily as possible, without making her feel bad or less than she is.

Original Kirk would be a ladies' man, nuKirk is a womanizer.

 

[trampledamage]

The problem is that "womanizer" has negative connotations. Kirk (both old and new) loves to flirt

Since when? Because that's the first I've heard of it. As far as I know, a womanizer is a guy who's very handsome, charming and likes to flirt a lot; you know, the kinda guy that every woman gets weak knees when he simply walks in the door. The kinda guy that gets to sleep with lots of women at the same time. No negative connotations there.

No, that would be a "ladies' man".

A womanizer is ruffian buffoon that disrespectfully seduced, uses and tosses aside women, without a single shred of a care what they feel or think about it.

This is what Chambers dictionary says

womanize or womanise verb (womanized, womanizing) 1 intrans, derog colloq said of a man: to pursue and have casual affairs with women.

The actual definition is how DiSiLLUSiON understands the word - but the "derog colloq" tag means derogatory colloquial, meaning the word is used in a negative way.

 

[3D Master]

Since when? Because that's the first I've heard of it. As far as I know, a womanizer is a guy who's very handsome, charming and likes to flirt a lot; you know, the kinda guy that every woman gets weak knees when he simply walks in the door. The kinda guy that gets to sleep with lots of women at the same time. No negative connotations there.

No, that would be a "ladies' man".

A womanizer is ruffian buffoon that disrespectfully seduced, uses and tosses aside women, without a single shred of a care what they feel or think about it.

This is what Chambers dictionary says

womanize or womanise verb (womanized, womanizing) 1 intrans, derog colloq said of a man: to pursue and have casual affairs with women.

The actual definition is how DiSiLLUSiON understands the word - but the "derog colloq" tag means derogatory colloquial, meaning the word is used in a negative way.

Thank you for repeating my words, very useful.

 

[starburst]

Did we really see enough of Pines Kirk after becoming Captain to know that for sure, after sitting in the Captains chair we saw him do nothing except for what you would have expected of Kirk, get the job done!

For all we know he did all the "how you doin" stuff all the way back to the Enterprise after being made permanent Captain.

 

[trampledamage]

No, that would be a "ladies' man".

A womanizer is ruffian buffoon that disrespectfully seduced, uses and tosses aside women, without a single shred of a care what they feel or think about it.

This is what Chambers dictionary says

womanize or womanise verb (womanized, womanizing) 1 intrans, derog colloq said of a man: to pursue and have casual affairs with women.

The actual definition is how DiSiLLUSiON understands the word - but the "derog colloq" tag means derogatory colloquial, meaning the word is used in a negative way.

Thank you for repeating my words, very useful.

*counts to 10*


I thought DiSiLLUSiON might find a dictionary definition helpful.

 

[3D Master]

Did we really see enough of Pines Kirk after becoming Captain to know that for sure, after sitting in the Captains chair we saw him do nothing except for what you would have expected of Kirk, get the job done!

For all we know he did all the "how you doin" stuff all the way back to the Enterprise after being made permanent Captain.

He's the same arrogant ROB from beginning to end of the movie.

 

[DevilEyes]

it's improbable

anyway, it's a myth. see it debunked:

http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html

Good idea overall to debunk the myth that Kirk slept with 'every woman' or 'another woman in every episode' which is really not true. However, that page would be more credible if they did not adhere so ridiculously to the "if we didn't see it, it did not happen" concept (come on, no sex in "Conscience of the King"? Kirk and Lenore were having a relationship. If we did not see them doing it, it does not mean that they were not sleeping together. How can the author or that article be sure?)... They also forgot that Kirk did kiss Elaan on screen, so that's not "kisses - 0". And they also conviently ignore or forget the last scene of "Wolf in the Fold", in which Kirk explicitly mentions going off to the planet with McCoy and Scotty to look for women to, um, have fun with (and even invites Spock [!] which naturally gets a raised eyebrow and a stare as a reply - what the hell was the writer thinking?).

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

All right, thank you both, trampledamage and 3D Master; that clears it up for me. The terms confused me for a bit; English isn't my first language.

However, I don't think Kirk is a womanizer, either in TOS or in Star Trek. We didn't saw any proof that Kirk had the 'womanizer' aspects; just that he had a flingie with the Orion girl, or did we?

 

[DevilEyes]

The problem is that "womanizer" has negative connotations. Kirk (both old and new) loves to flirt

Since when? Because that's the first I've heard of it. As far as I know, a womanizer is a guy who's very handsome, charming and likes to flirt a lot; you know, the kinda guy that every woman gets weak knees when he simply walks in the door. The kinda guy that gets to sleep with lots of women at the same time. No negative connotations there.

No, that would be a "ladies' man".

A womanizer is ruffian buffoon that disrespectfully seduces, uses and tosses aside women, without a single shred of a care what they feel or think about it - most usually by lying, cheating and misleading them. Perfect example of a womanizer would be Parker from S4 Buffy: he went on three dates with Buffy, doing nothing but telling and showing her they were in a relationship together. And the moment he had had her in bed; nothing, nada zilch, in fact he went out of his way to put Buffy down as an idiot and stupid for getting into bed with him.

A "ladies' man" by contrast, would make a woman feel good, sexy, strong and confident for having shared his bed. He would use charm, not lies, to seduce her, and if he's not interested beyond a one-night stand, he would make absolutely sure on before hand she knows this. Should she have had higher expectations anyway, he wouldn't put her down and insult her in public and make her out to be a slut in front of other girls, he'd take her aside in private, and let her down as easily as possible, without making her feel bad or less than she is.

Original Kirk would be a ladies' man, nuKirk is a womanizer.

Which women did "nuKirk" seduce, use and toss aside without a single shred of care about what they think or feel?

Gaila? I don't remember him tossing her aside and she didn't seem hurt or heartbroken, either.

Which other women did Kirk get it on in the movie?

And how do you know whether original Kirk made women feel good, sexy, strong and confident for having shared his bed?

 

[DevilEyes]

Yeah, you see, when a tsunami wipes away your village, that's not a reason to blow up every city in the western world because we weren't there to stop the natural disaster. It's why don't see any Chinese, or Indonesian or people of other Tsunami-afflicted countries try to blow up every city in the western world.

In the same way, when a Super Nova - a natural disaster - destroys your planet, that equals to there being nothing to get revenge over.


And again; it's a natural disaster. There's no blame on the Federation and Spock anywhere. The fact that he does, essentially blame the western world for not stopping the 2004 Tsunami, and for that destroy every western city - means he's a deranged, maniacal serial killer, who only needed something to set him off; and his entire crew right along with him. Only someone screwed up in the head, even before the event, would blame people for a natural disaster.

Too bad the Vulcans and the Federation as a whole did not have you as their PR person. You could have stopped Nero right there in the beginning.