United Federation of Planets & Starfleet

[Sci]

Concerning why the Federation is so UE dominated and why the resulting military was more an evolution of Earth's own military more than anyone else's...I had my more diabolical idea over that. I began to think that Earth deliberately held back in the Romulan War and allowed it's allies to be devestated in the conflict (greatly weakening the Romulans as well) and only stepped in when both the allies and Romulans had pretty much wasted each other. Earth made the agreement that in exchange for them defeating the Romulans it would be Earth as the dominant power of the new alliance that would have to be formed from the remains of the allies power (since alone too much of their individual infrastructure had been destroyed and they'd have to work together more closely). Then after they beat the Romulans Earth essentially whitewashed the history books to make it the "Earth-Romulan War" and downplayed the allies' involvement.

So from this, the TOS Federation was really a benevolent Terran Empire with the other aliens as weak partners.

It's certainly an interesting proposition, but I find myself doubting that it's likely for a couple of reasons.

When we last left the canonical 22nd Century, United Earth had already damaged three major Romulan operations in local space. It was Humans who helped Vulcans overthrow the Romulans' puppet government on Vulcan with the coup against Administrator V'Las and the dissolution of the High Command. And it was Humans who stopped the Vulcan invasion of the Andorian Empire. And it was Humans who thwarted the Romulans' attempt to provoke war between Andor and Tellar.

As a result, right off the bat, it seems likely to me that the Romulans have it out for Earth. They're not as likely to target Vulcan, Andor, or Tellar, because all three of those worlds have proven vulnerable to Romulan manipulation, and Earth has thwarted all three attempts to control them. To the Romulan mind, Earth already constitutes the biggest threat to their interests -- making it unlikely that the Romulans would start gunning for anyone other than Earth.

There's a piece of canonical evidence about the Earth-Romulan War that might undermine your idea. In "Homefront," Sisko claims that a Jem'Hadar invasion of Earth will be the sort of conflict Earth hasn't seen since the Founding of the Federation -- implying that the Earth-Romulan War reached, and badly damaged, Earth itself.

On top of that, I don't think the Federation itself is particularly United Earth-dominated. Of the four Federation Presidents we've encountered, spread out over two hundred years of Federation history, only two of them have been Human -- Jonathan Archer twenty years after the Federation was founded (if you accept the bio screen in "In A Mirror, Darkly," at any rate), and the unnamed Human (named Hiram Roth in the novels) in 2285 (Star Trek IV). Meanwhile, we've seen two aliens as President -- an Efrosian in 2293 (named Ra-ghoratreii in the novels), and a Grazerite in 2372.

When we saw what appeared to be the Federation Council in ST4, it didn't seem particularly Human-dominated. And the guy who was apparently the most powerful foreign policy advisor to Ra-ghoratreii was Sarek of Vulcan. To top it all off, we never encountered the United Earth ambassador to the Babel Conference in "Journey to Babel" as we did the Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite, and other ambassadors.

So I would argue that even if Starfleet is Human-dominated -- which I don't know if I agree that it is -- the Federation itself probably is not.

 

[Anwar]

That may be just the Allies' response to Earth's demand that they be the dominant power of the post-war alliance: They let it happen, with their own plan being they would make sure to put their own people in places of power as time went on and make the partnership more equal, or take over and make the humans their cannon fodder in the fleet.

 

[blueshirt]

I think there's plenty of room to create a Federation "Bill of Rights" that all members accept as law while still having an "infinite diversity" of planetary customs and regulations.
As an admittedly simple example, the Federation may require member worlds to be governed by elected representatives. But in theory, Earth could have a 3-branch world government with separation of powers, Vulcan could have a parliament, and Tellarites could elect a global governor every 5 years. Betazed could even keep a figurehead monarchy.

An organization like the Federation probably would be seen by its citizens in the early years as merely a treaty providing for mutual defense, trade, and dispute resolution among its members. A 23rd century Federation might be a true "federal" system with plenty of diplomatic debate over UFP vs. planetary jurisdiction. And finally, 200 years of shared commerce and communication might produce a more homogenized Federation culture in the 24th century.

As for disputes among members who might wish to leave or have trouble accepting a particular law, well, that's what all those diplomats and democratic institutions are meant to smooth out. They'll cut a deal.

Another theory for the seemingly human-centric Starfleet would be that though each member planet or species has its own vessels for trade and system defense, humans simply were more driven to explore and, most crucially, colonize other worlds, thus building and staffing more starships. This is suggested by "the human compulsion" that Q discusses in "Hide and Q."
And Earth may house the Federation Council and Starfleet Command simply because it was the only member world acceptable to the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites.

 

[Praetor]

I feel that this is the appropriate time to share the Klingons' perspective on the Federation, lifted from the "Klingon Academy" game manual, p 197:

Federation

The United Federation of Planet is an interstellar alliance of various planetary governments and colonies ostensibly united for social, economic, scientific, and defensive cooperation. But since it's founding in the Terran year 2161 (1536 IR), the Federation has in truth been continuously on the move to subvert nearby civilizations into joining their alliance, absorb their technologies and wealth, and all the while stamping out their cultural individuality, replacing it with Federation imperialist dogma.

Membership in the Federation hinges on several requirements, such as a unified planetary government (which is easier to manipulate than a balkanized planet), and equally for all their citizens (which allows the weak and fearful to hold positions of power.) Even when the world in question is not up to their membership criteria, the Federation often imposes blockades around these star systems, preventing their development by "outside influences" under the guise of their fraudulent "Prime Directive." All the while, covert Federation operatives quietly observe these civilizations and secretly subert their primitive governments, paving the way for eventual assimilation into the Federation hegemony.

Federation Government is made up of a Council of representatives from their member worlds, presided over by the office of the Federation President. This is their key weakness, as it renders their government inefficient and bureaucratic. Council decisions must be ratified by a majority of its membership whose disparate viewpoints rarely coincide with the best interests of the state. Further crippling government powers, the Federation President is rendered ineffectual by a series of "checks and balances" imposed upon this office by the Constitution of the United Federation of Planets. Subsequently, the decision-making power of the president is too limited to be effective, and the few areas within his direct influence are subject to veto by the Council. Clearly, they lack the unified leadership necessary for survival in any kind of sustained conflict.

The military authority of the UFP is Starfleet Command, which is responsible for the defense of the Federation, as well as seeking out new resources to exploit and new civilizations to undermine and control. To this end, the Federation equips Starfleet with well-balanced starships with the very latest technological advances. Federation starships are well suited to their dual roles of exploration and defense, with a good balance of speed, defensive shielding, hull strength, and offensive weaponry. However, the captains of these starships are limited with various constraints imposed upon them by the Federation Council through Starfleet Regulations. Adherence to these regulations makes Starfleet commanders predictable when challenged and reluctant to fight, ultimately rendering them ineffective warriors despite the formidable tools provided them.

Because the Federation has blocked off most of the Empire's access to resources in the Alpha Quadrant, war is inevitable. The Empire must expand into these territories if it is to survive. This coming was is what the industrial might of the Empire has prepared for throughout the past 70 years, and the Klingon Empire shall prevail.

Keep in mind this was supposed to have been written in 2290.

 

[Da'an]

Seems like a valid viewpoint.

 

[Praetor]

Yeah, I've honestly always had a hard time arguing with it, myself.

 

[VDCNI]

Another theory for the seemingly human-centric Starfleet would be that though each member planet or species has its own vessels for trade and system defense, humans simply were more driven to explore and, most crucially, colonize other worlds, thus building and staffing more starships. This is suggested by "the human compulsion" that Q discusses in "Hide and Q."
And Earth may house the Federation Council and Starfleet Command simply because it was the only member world acceptable to the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites.

This is what I was thinking while reading this thread. Various forms of Trek have often hinted that the drive to explore the galaxy came from humanity and that it was a less important factor for other races. Perhaps when Starfleet started off as a defence force then it was pretty well balanced between races but as exploration became a bigger factor humanity came to the fore. In that case that wouldn't really have any impact on the political structure of the Federation which wouldn't be human dominated.

 

[Sci]

Yeah, I've honestly always had a hard time arguing with it, myself.

Brilliant. And nicely demonstrates something that a lot of Trekkies don't seem to understand -- that from a non-Federation POV, the UFP can appear very threatening and domineering, whether it's intending to be or not.

Another theory for the seemingly human-centric Starfleet would be that though each member planet or species has its own vessels for trade and system defense, humans simply were more driven to explore and, most crucially, colonize other worlds, thus building and staffing more starships. This is suggested by "the human compulsion" that Q discusses in "Hide and Q."
And Earth may house the Federation Council and Starfleet Command simply because it was the only member world acceptable to the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites.

This is what I was thinking while reading this thread. Various forms of Trek have often hinted that the drive to explore the galaxy came from humanity and that it was a less important factor for other races. Perhaps when Starfleet started off as a defence force then it was pretty well balanced between races but as exploration became a bigger factor humanity came to the fore. In that case that wouldn't really have any impact on the political structure of the Federation which wouldn't be human dominated.

Hmm. Star Trek VI seemed to establish that there were different divisions of Starfleet -- one devoted to military defense, and one devoted to exploration.

It's entirely possible that Humans make up the majority of officers in the exploration corps, but that, say, Andorians make up the majority of officers in the defense corps.

Still, I question the whole "Humans are explorers" notion. On some level, I wonder if it isn't just United Earth government propaganda -- it's a disturbingly ethnocentric and self-congratulatory notion, I think.

 

[Da'an]

They're like the Borg, except people have to apply to be assimilated and have their culture and technology changed to the Federation standard.

 

[Sci]

They're like the Borg, except people have to apply to be assimilated.

:shrugs: I mean, it's basically the same criticism that people have of the United States today. From the U.S. POV, we're just selling people stuff they want to buy and sharing ideas that they like. From someone else's POV, we're using our economic dominance to export our material and our political culture and impose them upon less-powerful societies.

 

[Anwar]

I still think the "Federation is worse than the Borg" thing was nonsense. When the Feds go around essentially stripping planets of everything technological and raping entire populaces with mind control devices to make them into slaves, then the comparison is valid.

As for the Klingons, I do think it's funny how that report doesn't mention the Klingons own plans for the Alpha Quadrant (ie, to conquer it). And why would the Klingons use the term "balkan"?

 

[SilentP]

As for the Klingons, I do think it's funny how that report doesn't mention the Klingons own plans for the Alpha Quadrant (ie, to conquer it). And why would the Klingons use the term "balkan"?

It's all propaganda

As for using the term 'balkan' I don't think the term 'Qhl'tyanised*' would be as understandable to us



*Disclaimer: I did just make up that

 

[Sci]

I still think the "Federation is worse than the Borg" thing was nonsense. When the Feds go around essentially stripping planets of everything technological and raping entire populaces with mind control devices to make them into slaves, then the comparison is valid.

Of, of course it is. Equating the Federation with the Borg is pure hyperbole. That doesn't mean that the implicit meaning of the hyperbolic statement -- that the Federation has a homogenizing effect on the cultures of its Member States and neighbors that negatively impacts cultural diversity and the sovereignty of foreign states -- is invalid, however. (Doesn't mean it's valid, either. It's a point of view.)

As for the Klingons, I do think it's funny how that report doesn't mention the Klingons own plans for the Alpha Quadrant (ie, to conquer it).

Oh, it does. But they're Klingons; nationalism is implicit in their worldview. They would probably argue that their plans to conquer the Alpha Quadrant are for the best, since it would either lead to those cultures that oppose them becoming stronger than they already are, or would destroy weak cultures that don't deserve to exist except as jeghpu'wI (conquered peoples).

And why would the Klingons use the term "balkan"?

They wouldn't. And Spanish-speakers wouldn't describe someone lying to someone for humorous effect as "To pull someone's leg." The literal Spanish idiom would be, "Tomarle el pelo a alguien": "To pull someone's hair." But "To pull someone's leg" is still how we would translate "Tomarle el pelo a alguien."

Obviously that's an example of a substitution of an English idiom for an equivalent Klingonese idiom.

 

[Anwar]

Fair enough, though I think that report seems more like something the Romulans or Cardassians would write up though.

Reminds me of a discussion I had with Myasishchev over how the Major AQ powers could be re-invented a little so the "Militaristic Governments" thing didn't overlap so much: The Romulans would actually be a Democracy that doesn't "envy the Federation's freedoms" and the such, they treat their citizens well and aren't advocating the military as the end all be all. They just happen to have a Manifest Destiny mindset and see the Federation as a roadblock.

 

[Sci]

Fair enough, though I think that report seems more like something the Romulans or Cardassians would write up though.

The Romulans or Cardassians could easily have produced a similar report (though I doubt the Cardassians would criticize Federation democracy as encouraging the ascension of the "weak"). But it's not inconceivable that the Klingons would produce it, too. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez come from very different cultures with very different values, but when they criticize the United States, they use the same basic arguments. Some wildly varying cultures can have similar problems with a third power.

Reminds me of a discussion I had with Myasishchev over how the Major AQ powers could be re-invented a little so the "Militaristic Governments" thing didn't overlap so much:

Hm. You know, I honestly don't think that the idea of a military government recurs all that much -- it's just that, just like our primary interaction with the Federation is through the eyes of the officers of the Federation's military, Starfleet, so too are our primary interactions with non-Federation states with their militaries. Things always look more militaristic if you're coming at it through the military itself, after all.

The Klingons, for example, I would not describe as having a military government. I would describe them as being a feudal lordship akin to what Europe had during the Middle Ages. The Romulans, on the other hand, I would describe as an aristocratic oligarchy more akin to the Roman Republic or Restoration-era England -- not a liberal democracy, comparatively little freedom if you're not born to the purple, but not a military dictatorship either. Really, it's only the Cardassians (pre-Detapa Council uprising) that I would feel comfortable describing as an out-and-out military government.

The Romulans would actually be a Democracy that doesn't "envy the Federation's freedoms" and the such, they treat their citizens well and aren't advocating the military as the end all be all. They just happen to have a Manifest Destiny mindset and see the Federation as a roadblock.

Hm. It's possible. Of course, most democracies don't maintain a secret police force like the Tal Shiar. If they are a democracy, I'd suggest that they're either one that doesn't practice universal suffrage -- it seems unlikely to me that the extremely aristocratic Romulans would allow unpropertied folk to vote -- or one that's an extremely illiberal democracy, to borrow Fareed Zakaria's term. I doubt that they have a bill of rights.

 

[Praetor]

Yeah, I've honestly always had a hard time arguing with it, myself.

Brilliant. And nicely demonstrates something that a lot of Trekkies don't seem to understand -- that from a non-Federation POV, the UFP can appear very threatening and domineering, whether it's intending to be or not.

{snip}

Still, I question the whole "Humans are explorers" notion. On some level, I wonder if it isn't just United Earth government propaganda -- it's a disturbingly ethnocentric and self-congratulatory notion, I think.

I'm glad you enjoyed that writeup - and I find your last comment particularly compelling. Somehow, I think of the "We seek to better ourselves..." line and just cringe.

They're like the Borg, except people have to apply to be assimilated.

:shrugs: I mean, it's basically the same criticism that people have of the United States today. From the U.S. POV, we're just selling people stuff they want to buy and sharing ideas that they like. From someone else's POV, we're using our economic dominance to export our material and our political culture and impose them upon less-powerful societies.

Agreed.

As for the Klingons, I do think it's funny how that report doesn't mention the Klingons own plans for the Alpha Quadrant (ie, to conquer it).

Oh, it does. But they're Klingons; nationalism is implicit in their worldview. They would probably argue that their plans to conquer the Alpha Quadrant are for the best, since it would either lead to those cultures that oppose them becoming stronger than they already are, or would destroy weak cultures that don't deserve to exist except as jeghpu'wI (conquered peoples).

That is almost exactly what they argue in the manual, although rather surreptitiously. It's somewhat more abundant in their assessment of their Romulan "allies."

The Klingons, for example, I would not describe as having a military government. I would describe them as being a feudal lordship akin to what Europe had during the Middle Ages. The Romulans, on the other hand, I would describe as an aristocratic oligarchy more akin to the Roman Republic or Restoration-era England -- not a liberal democracy, comparatively little freedom if you're not born to the purple, but not a military dictatorship either. Really, it's only the Cardassians (pre-Detapa Council uprising) that I would feel comfortable describing as an out-and-out military government.

I tend to agree with your assessments here, Sci.

The Romulans would actually be a Democracy that doesn't "envy the Federation's freedoms" and the such, they treat their citizens well and aren't advocating the military as the end all be all. They just happen to have a Manifest Destiny mindset and see the Federation as a roadblock.

Hm. It's possible. Of course, most democracies don't maintain a secret police force like the Tal Shiar. If they are a democracy, I'd suggest that they're either one that doesn't practice universal suffrage -- it seems unlikely to me that the extremely aristocratic Romulans would allow unpropertied folk to vote -- or one that's an extremely illiberal democracy, to borrow Fareed Zakaria's term. I doubt that they have a bill of rights.

That's actually along the lines I was thinking - although I'd envisioned a "Starship Troopers"esque fascistic state that requires military service for citizenship and suffrage, and probably has a powerful aristocracy/land ownership.

While I'm at it, here's what the Klingons have to say about the Romulans:

ROMULAN

The Romulan Star Empire was first encountered by Klingon vessels in 1600 IR [2225] Up until 1643 [2268] little was known of the Romulans, other than they are treacherous and fight dishonorably from the shadows. This changed when we entered into an alliance and technical exchange program with the Romulans. The alliance formed as a response to the ever-burgeoning political and economic strength of the Federation - ushered in an era of relative peace between our two Empires.

We learned much from our new allies, as did they, and that has become the source of political strain on the alliance. The Romulans are a proud people who are in the same situation as we. Sorely lacking resources, they must expand or perish. Often, their need to expand has resulted in armed incursions into Klingon space. This has led to many clashes even after the alliance was formed, yet the overriding threat of the Federation has prevented escalation of hostilities and the alliance remains tenuously intact. Their need to expand, compounded by their devious, secretive, and dishonorable nature, has led to mistrust between our two governments. Agents of the Klingon Imperial Intelligence monitoring the Romulans have recently reported the Romulans are running dangerously low on dilithium. More ominous still, the Romulan Imperial Navy has conducted numerous secret research projects in violation of the technology exchange treaty between both Empires. Imperial Intelligence has yet to discover the exact nature of these projects, but efforts to do so continue.

Obviously alluding to the quantum singularity technology at the end, there. The writeup goes on to mention that Romulan technology is similar, but that they have slightly inferior warp drive capability "as an intended result of out-dated schematics and data given to them in the technological exchange." And again, this was supposed to have been written 2290.

 

[Anwar]

I can't believe how much stuff had to be invented (like the artificial singularity stuff) just to explain Scotty's line about how the Romulan ship in BoT had only "Impulse" power. I mean seriously folks he wasn't saying they didn't have warp, he was saying their warp power was inferior to the Enterprise's antimatter. Impulse is FTL lesser than Antimatter-powered FTL.

As for the Romulans being a Democracy, Praetor said the Romulans worked best as a somewhat repressive democracy who maintained militaristic elements like a secret police. But those can easily be spinned off as necessary tools to protect Romulus from external influences (Romulans work well as xenophobes or looking down on other races) who seek to subvert Romulus from within.

Heck, for a spin why not have the Tal Shiar be well-respected and liked by the majority of the Romulans instead of outright feared like the Obsidian Order are by the Cardassians? They did a good enough job of showing the difference in values during "Chain of Command" wherein Madred's actions were shown to be acceptable by Cardassian society, so do the same for the Tal Shiar and Romulus.

 

[Captain Fine]

I can't believe how much stuff had to be invented (like the artificial singularity stuff) just to explain Scotty's line about how the Romulan ship in BoT had only "Impulse" power. I mean seriously folks he wasn't saying they didn't have warp, he was saying their warp power was inferior to the Enterprise's antimatter. Impulse is FTL lesser than Antimatter-powered FTL.

You know I actually LIKE the fact that Romulans' ships are powered by an artificial singularity drive. It made them unique

 

[Sci]

I can't believe how much stuff had to be invented (like the artificial singularity stuff) just to explain Scotty's line about how the Romulan ship in BoT had only "Impulse" power. I mean seriously folks he wasn't saying they didn't have warp, he was saying their warp power was inferior to the Enterprise's antimatter. Impulse is FTL lesser than Antimatter-powered FTL.

Yep. Especially since the episode's plot requires the Romulan ship to be capable of FTL drive...

As for the Romulans being a Democracy, Praetor said the Romulans worked best as a somewhat repressive democracy who maintained militaristic elements like a secret police. But those can easily be spinned off as necessary tools to protect Romulus from external influences (Romulans work well as xenophobes or looking down on other races) who seek to subvert Romulus from within.

Heck, for a spin why not have the Tal Shiar be well-respected and liked by the majority of the Romulans instead of outright feared like the Obsidian Order are by the Cardassians?

Not to nitpick, but I'm fairly sure that "Face of the Enemy" established the Tal Shiar to be as universally feared as the Obsidian Order. Dragging people out of their homes in the middle of the night to "disappear" them tends to do that to ya.

 

[Anwar]

Oh I know, I'm talking about a re conceptualization not altering an existing thing. Like if TNG were rebooted.