Okay, Star Trek Blasphemy, but....

[KimMH]

Seeing the thread title made my heart leap a bit, but for a very different reason:

The romantic subplot that COTEoF hinges on for emotional resonance with the viewer is rushed, frequently cliched, corny, and I never believed Kirk was in love with Edith Keeler. 50 minutes is not enough time for such a substantial payoff.

There, I said it. I feel better. Don't get me wrong, it's likely in my top 20, but it falls heartbreakingly short of greatness.

I originally felt the relationship was simply a story telling device and that a love that deep couldn't have been formed in 50 minutes, myself. However, I just read David Georges Crucible: Spock and realized that they were there in the 1930 for approx 45 days. I still don't believe a lasting love can be formed in 50 mins but I am much more amenable to 45 days. Particularly as George portrays Keeler as an extraordinary woman who was ahead of her time and very much in sync with Kirk's personal philosophy and belief system. Not to mention very attractive. I highly recommend the book to anyone who is not satisfied with the few minutes we get of the story on screen - good as it was - and now even more of a personal favorite.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I always assumed the tricorder had the memory banks of the Enterprise computer, no?

Not in 1966 it didn't.

 

[Nuveena]

I originally felt the relationship was simply a story telling device and that a love that deep couldn't have been formed in 50 minutes, myself. However, I just read David Georges Crucible: Spock and realized that they were there in the 1930 for approx 45 days. I still don't believe a lasting love can be formed in 50 mins but I am much more amenable to 45 days. Particularly as George portrays Keeler as an extraordinary woman who was ahead of her time and very much in sync with Kirk's personal philosophy and belief system. Not to mention very attractive. I highly recommend the book to anyone who is not satisfied with the few minutes we get of the story on screen - good as it was - and now even more of a personal favorite.

Thanks for the information about the book, I'll have to add it to my summer reading list.

 

[Gorn Captain]

Yeah, I never had any qualms about how long Kirk and Edith had to form an attachment. Seems to me that there were probably many instances where Kirk took a trip up the stairs to Edith's place other than that one scene.

However, I remember there being dialogue to the effect that they arrived a week or so before McCoy, not 45 days, no?

 

[jbrinegar]

H Ellison would have found some reason to complain/sue if Keeler was used in Generations

 

[KimMH]

I don't recall Keeler being in Generations but understand his chagrin if he is not receiving any royalties for her continued use in current TrekLit. That said I am glad I was very glad to see her again.

Whether or not Edith Keeler qualfies as intellectual property is part of the issue of the Ellison suit and he should receive royalties for her continued use in TrekLit and should she ever appear onscreen again there as well.

 

[Fid]

I have a huge problem with "The City on the Edge of Forever" which is generally considered to be one of the best, if not the best, Star Trek episodes ever.

My problem is this: When Kirk and Spock are trying to figure out how McCoy changed history, Spock says something to the effect of "If I could only tap into the ship's computers" and proceeds to build a device that does that, if briefly.

WHAT?!?

Does this device reach through time and space? It's not like the Enterprise in orbit above 1930's Earth. In fact, the Enterprise isn't in orbit around the Guardian's planet, or any planet, at any time. That's the problem they're trying to solve! Forget whether or not Spock could earn enough money sweeping floors to buy enough parts to build the stupid thing, or whether the sorts of parts he would need are available in that time period, he's trying to contact a ship that DOESNT EXIST IN THAT OR ANY TIME.

I'm sure this is a huge plot hole that others must have noticed. If this has been discussed prior to this, my apologies. But that gaping plot hole really harms that episode.

I have an even bigger problem with how they know what changed, period. The Guardian was showing Earth history.

Spock states something like "I am a fool" and indicates that he should be recording this rich playback that has never been available. McCoy jumps through and their universe (external to their proximity) changed. All they have is the 'time' it occurred. In narration (IIRC), Kirk has the Guardian replay and they jump through.

My point is, what could Spock have used as a reference (EK must die). McCoy just through as Spock was recording in the first pass. The Tricorder recorded changed history only.

 

[Sovay]

Got to agree with Nuveena on the love thing. It was all sudden and I sorta did a double-take when kirk said he loved her. Guess I'm just too used to Kirk's many lady interests to pick out one he feels deeply about It is an awesome episode though, and the ending is especially powerful, I think Kirk is one of the few people who could have done what he did.

 

[Gary7]

Edith Keeler was not someone Kirk was supposed to meet. It was an impossible relationship, made possible by the Guardian. But once time was corrected and "everything is as it was", in essence the relationship never happened. Antonia was a natural part of Kirk's life. It makes sense that a representation of her was there in the Nexus for Kirk. Remember, we don't know how deep his love was for her, based on previous movies. It must have been pretty strong though, because of the deep regret Kirk had for having left her and his eagerness to "do it right this time."

 

[ria 75]

About tapping into the Enterprise's computer, science fiction time is not linear. It's a... hold on.

*turns around* How do you put it, again?

...great big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

Thank you, Doctor.

Shortcuts in spacetime may be where you don't expect them.

 

[AtoZ]

Amazingly, Eddie Paskey was at the very wheel of the vehicle that flattened Keeler. Honestly, I love this guy. Understudy, looming background phantom or as an all but mute Lt. Leslie, and regardless of the color of his shirt, this guy had incredible staying power and the ability to alter circumstance in the Trek universe.

 

[RAMA]

Seeing the thread title made my heart leap a bit, but for a very different reason:

The romantic subplot that COTEoF hinges on for emotional resonance with the viewer is rushed, frequently cliched, corny, and I never believed Kirk was in love with Edith Keeler. 50 minutes is not enough time for such a substantial payoff.

There, I said it. I feel better. Don't get me wrong, it's likely in my top 20, but it falls heartbreakingly short of greatness.

THis was the ONLY episode in all of ST that I believed someone fell in love in 50 minutes ofair time.

RAMA

 

[Trekwatcher]

I am not a big Joan Collins fan, but she does a fantastic job in this ep. She is spot on with all of her lines, expressions, and reactions.

Watch Edith during the following exchange, and you can see what I mean.

Edith: "Don't you know?"
Bones: "Well, I know what a movie is."
Edith: "That's very strange!"

 

[Trekker4747]

She is also stunningly gorgeous in this episode.

 

[segask]

why does the Guardian show history in black and white? Was Calvin's dad right, LOL?

Seriously though, are the Guardian's images of history colorized in the new cgi remastered DVD versions of TOS?

 

[Anticitizen]

why does the Guardian show history in black and white? Was Calvin's dad right, LOL?

Nice reference The world turned color sometime in the '30s! The Guardian was just showing color footage of a world that was black and white!

 

[Tan Ru]

Of all TOS episodes, I always thought that City should have been a two-part episode.

I would've liked to have seen a more detailed love story, search for McCoy and Spock's exhausting work to build and use his Great Depression era "computer" add-on.

Anyone else think this should have been a two-parter??