Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers about
- Thread starter Navaros
- Start date
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
I agree that the speech itself was unremarkable. It is the brief and seemingly secondary Kira character moment that stands out to me. It is one of those rare moments where the important thing is in the background and therefore not overwritten or explained into oblivion.
Kira is only shown for maybe two or three seconds, but the moment is absolutely essential and the culmination of seven seasons worth of character development.
Very true, although curiously enough I think a Cardassian rebellion is one of the things Bashir claims he and his fellow superhumans have taken into account in calculating the Federation's inevitable defeat.
I love Sisko's response in that ep, by the way.
It all starts to go awry when you have multiple posters quoted. You have to go in there and micromanage
I agree that the speech itself was unremarkable. It is the brief and seemingly secondary Kira character moment that stands out to me. It is one of those rare moments where the important thing is in the background and therefore not overwritten or explained into oblivion.
Kira is only shown for maybe two or three seconds, but the moment is absolutely essential and the culmination of seven seasons worth of character development.
Very true, although curiously enough I think a Cardassian rebellion is one of the things Bashir claims he and his fellow superhumans have taken into account in calculating the Federation's inevitable defeat.
I love Sisko's response in that ep, by the way.
It all starts to go awry when you have multiple posters quoted. You have to go in there and micromanage
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
Unfortunately, throughout TNG and somewhat during DS9 Worf is nothing more than a deadbeat Dad. He dumps Alexander on his parents (twice I believe) during TNG even after multiple episodes showing Worf pledging to make things work as a father. There really isn't any way to get around this. Worf was a horrible failure as a father and I don't blame Alexander one bit for resenting him.
I'm disappointed that Worf was presented in this way, because I don't really feel it is in character for him. It is a glaring fault in Worf's character and I'm surprised that so many people are willing to overlook it. How can you be honorable if you refuse to care for your own son and dump him the second he becomes a challenge to deal with? Sounds like cowardice to me.
Unfortunately, throughout TNG and somewhat during DS9 Worf is nothing more than a deadbeat Dad. He dumps Alexander on his parents (twice I believe) during TNG even after multiple episodes showing Worf pledging to make things work as a father. There really isn't any way to get around this. Worf was a horrible failure as a father and I don't blame Alexander one bit for resenting him.
I'm disappointed that Worf was presented in this way, because I don't really feel it is in character for him. It is a glaring fault in Worf's character and I'm surprised that so many people are willing to overlook it. How can you be honorable if you refuse to care for your own son and dump him the second he becomes a challenge to deal with? Sounds like cowardice to me.
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
Perhaps it make Worf more "human" as he is less than perfect. But in reality Alexander is dumped on Earth because they had trouble writing stories for him. Which is funny because "A Fist Full of Datas" is probably in my top 10 of TNG.
Perhaps it make Worf more "human" as he is less than perfect. But in reality Alexander is dumped on Earth because they had trouble writing stories for him. Which is funny because "A Fist Full of Datas" is probably in my top 10 of TNG.
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
Family can't be THAT hard to right for. Jake Sisko was a great character, and it was cool to see him grow up from a kid to a grown man in the show. If they had somehow done something along those lines with Alexander, it would have been better. But alas it was not meant to be. The way it turned out, I would have preferred if Alexander had never existed. Isn't it odd that Worf is just Worf, but his son is Alexander Rozhenko?
Family can't be THAT hard to right for. Jake Sisko was a great character, and it was cool to see him grow up from a kid to a grown man in the show. If they had somehow done something along those lines with Alexander, it would have been better. But alas it was not meant to be. The way it turned out, I would have preferred if Alexander had never existed. Isn't it odd that Worf is just Worf, but his son is Alexander Rozhenko?
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
I realize that is the real world reason for why Alexander written out, but the "in universe" reason..well there isn't one really. Worf was a horrible, selfish and irresponsible parent who dumped Alexander when things got tough.
I realize that is the real world reason for why Alexander written out, but the "in universe" reason..well there isn't one really. Worf was a horrible, selfish and irresponsible parent who dumped Alexander when things got tough.
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
I also liked "Rascals" as a TNG episode, because I thought it was funny how Picard as a kid with adult Picard's mind was able to use Alexander (or did the kid volunteer?) to reclaim the Enterprise from the Ferengi. Probably one of the few instances where Alexander wasn't a sad kid, but actually getting an adventure.
And, I kind of like that Worf isn't a very good father because it does make him less-than-perfect. He isn't one of my favorite TNG characters, but I liked that he was rich with flaws. I empathized with Alexander for his resentment of Worf, but at the same time, I think Worf had good intentions and maybe a mature Alexander finally understood/accepted that. To me, it would make sense that someone with Worf's troubled childhood/life (losing his biological parents; having a hard time with human adopted parents while not being human; trying to reconcile his Klingon ancestry while being a Federation citizen/Starfleet officer) might not have figured out how to be a good single parent. He made a decision (two or three times, maybe) that sending his kid home was the best way for the kid to have a stable/safe life. He might be wrong, but he tried his best (even if it could have been better for Alexander).
And, I think it was interesting that life in the Trek future apparently doesn't mean you're going to have great and loving dads like Ben Sisko or moms like Beverly Crusher (or even a Dukat to Ziyal); you might have Worf as a dad or even Kyle Riker (who apparently wasn't a very good father to Will Riker), guys who really couldn't figure it out without help. In a way, it's like real life - perfect parents and perfect children don't really happen. This might contradict the Trek ideal that our future would be great, but then again - maybe there's not that much contradiction (going back to the days of Spock, he didn't exactly have it easy with his parents, and he seemed to have a stable life with them otherwise).
Plus, writing for small kids on television isn't something that happens often either - whether for time or labor reasons or dramatic purposes; most shows do rapid aging for babies or small children characters for such obvious reasons. For little Alexander, I think that the Trek writers could have only done so much Alexander-in-peril stories (and he wasn't even a main character). I'm sure even figuring out what to do for Wesley Crusher or Jake Sisko wasn't easy until they either grew up or had other situations (and neither of them were small children). Happy families also don't make for great drama (in theory anyway).
Ultimately, I don't necessarily fault the writers for not crafting better characters of Alexander or Ziyal, when they do seem more like catalysts for Worf or Dukat/Kira/Garak than actual (albeit secondary) characters. Alexander and Ziyal could be more interesting, but not even DS9 can be that perfect!
I also liked "Rascals" as a TNG episode, because I thought it was funny how Picard as a kid with adult Picard's mind was able to use Alexander (or did the kid volunteer?) to reclaim the Enterprise from the Ferengi. Probably one of the few instances where Alexander wasn't a sad kid, but actually getting an adventure.
And, I kind of like that Worf isn't a very good father because it does make him less-than-perfect. He isn't one of my favorite TNG characters, but I liked that he was rich with flaws. I empathized with Alexander for his resentment of Worf, but at the same time, I think Worf had good intentions and maybe a mature Alexander finally understood/accepted that. To me, it would make sense that someone with Worf's troubled childhood/life (losing his biological parents; having a hard time with human adopted parents while not being human; trying to reconcile his Klingon ancestry while being a Federation citizen/Starfleet officer) might not have figured out how to be a good single parent. He made a decision (two or three times, maybe) that sending his kid home was the best way for the kid to have a stable/safe life. He might be wrong, but he tried his best (even if it could have been better for Alexander).
And, I think it was interesting that life in the Trek future apparently doesn't mean you're going to have great and loving dads like Ben Sisko or moms like Beverly Crusher (or even a Dukat to Ziyal); you might have Worf as a dad or even Kyle Riker (who apparently wasn't a very good father to Will Riker), guys who really couldn't figure it out without help. In a way, it's like real life - perfect parents and perfect children don't really happen. This might contradict the Trek ideal that our future would be great, but then again - maybe there's not that much contradiction (going back to the days of Spock, he didn't exactly have it easy with his parents, and he seemed to have a stable life with them otherwise).
Plus, writing for small kids on television isn't something that happens often either - whether for time or labor reasons or dramatic purposes; most shows do rapid aging for babies or small children characters for such obvious reasons. For little Alexander, I think that the Trek writers could have only done so much Alexander-in-peril stories (and he wasn't even a main character). I'm sure even figuring out what to do for Wesley Crusher or Jake Sisko wasn't easy until they either grew up or had other situations (and neither of them were small children). Happy families also don't make for great drama (in theory anyway).
Ultimately, I don't necessarily fault the writers for not crafting better characters of Alexander or Ziyal, when they do seem more like catalysts for Worf or Dukat/Kira/Garak than actual (albeit secondary) characters. Alexander and Ziyal could be more interesting, but not even DS9 can be that perfect!
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
IMO that episode is totally unwatchable in the top 5 of worst Trek episodes ever; a premier example of why 'holodeck malfunction' episodes should never, ever be done.
IMO that episode is totally unwatchable in the top 5 of worst Trek episodes ever; a premier example of why 'holodeck malfunction' episodes should never, ever be done.
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
See I look at it this way. It is so bad it is good. Perhaps top 10 was slight hyperbolic as its not Best of Both Worlds or Chain of Command. Alexander's delivery of "FATHER!" to which Worf replies "Are you okay?", is the essence of unintentional comedy.
See I look at it this way. It is so bad it is good. Perhaps top 10 was slight hyperbolic as its not Best of Both Worlds or Chain of Command. Alexander's delivery of "FATHER!" to which Worf replies "Are you okay?", is the essence of unintentional comedy.
Re: Alexander & Ziyal shortcomings that I disagree with the writers ab
Well, I understand your point of view, but I guess the writers in this case didn't want the Cardassian rebellion to seem too sudden for fear that it might seem implausible. Damar's character especially had to be given time to evolve. I tend to remember him now as he is at the end: a charismatic leader. But for much of the show he had been the dull underling.
Damar's awakening was handled very well, I think, though I tend to agree with you that somehow the strategic importance was understated.
Kira's expression is great, though. I don't even know if it was in the script, but however it got in there, it is the best part of the scene.
I'm suddenly not sure if we're thinking of the same speech. There's one he gives in effect spontaneously to a group of Cardassians in the street. I think only Kira and Garak are there for that. That's the one I've been thinking of.
It seems to me that there is perhaps another one later that is somehow broadcast to the Federation, which judging from your above post you may be refering to. If so, I hardly remember that one at all, so probably it is very deserving of your criticism
Well, I understand your point of view, but I guess the writers in this case didn't want the Cardassian rebellion to seem too sudden for fear that it might seem implausible. Damar's character especially had to be given time to evolve. I tend to remember him now as he is at the end: a charismatic leader. But for much of the show he had been the dull underling.
Damar's awakening was handled very well, I think, though I tend to agree with you that somehow the strategic importance was understated.
Kira's expression is great, though. I don't even know if it was in the script, but however it got in there, it is the best part of the scene.
I'm suddenly not sure if we're thinking of the same speech. There's one he gives in effect spontaneously to a group of Cardassians in the street. I think only Kira and Garak are there for that. That's the one I've been thinking of.
It seems to me that there is perhaps another one later that is somehow broadcast to the Federation, which judging from your above post you may be refering to. If so, I hardly remember that one at all, so probably it is very deserving of your criticism
