RicardoHead
Fleet Captain
Removing because of the PC wankers who whine above every damn thing at this site.
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Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's core?
- Thread starter RicardoHead
- Start date
Plecostomus
Commodore
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
I think he was going for the cruel angry sadist "ponder your fate and suffer" angle more than practical planet-wrecking.
I think he was going for the cruel angry sadist "ponder your fate and suffer" angle more than practical planet-wrecking.
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
I just assumed you need the red matter to come in contact with a gravity well. And the Narada looked big enough to have its own substantial gravity well; or at least an artificial gravity well.
PSEUDO-SCIENCE!
I just assumed you need the red matter to come in contact with a gravity well. And the Narada looked big enough to have its own substantial gravity well; or at least an artificial gravity well.
PSEUDO-SCIENCE!
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
The novelization says that the red matter needed the extreme heat at the core of a planet to act as a catalyst.
(In the case of the Narada, I'm betting the red matter used the ship's warp core.)
The novelization says that the red matter needed the extreme heat at the core of a planet to act as a catalyst.
(In the case of the Narada, I'm betting the red matter used the ship's warp core.)
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
Seems like the gravity well is also necessary, or at least zero gravity. Otherwise one could probably just enclose the red matter in a thermite bomb or similar device on the surface of the planet.
Because the red matter creates a singularity, it does not seem anomalous to me that it would require some specific local space-time geometry to function.
It's natural to speculate that it must be surrounded by large amounts of matter or it would dissipate, but this hypothesis would not be consistent with its ignition and singularity-creation at the Narada, which has orders of magnitude less mass than a planet.
Thus, I believe the zero-gravity plus high-heat conjunction comprises the most plausible requisite conditions for red-matter induced singularity creation.
Seems like the gravity well is also necessary, or at least zero gravity. Otherwise one could probably just enclose the red matter in a thermite bomb or similar device on the surface of the planet.
Because the red matter creates a singularity, it does not seem anomalous to me that it would require some specific local space-time geometry to function.
It's natural to speculate that it must be surrounded by large amounts of matter or it would dissipate, but this hypothesis would not be consistent with its ignition and singularity-creation at the Narada, which has orders of magnitude less mass than a planet.
Thus, I believe the zero-gravity plus high-heat conjunction comprises the most plausible requisite conditions for red-matter induced singularity creation.
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
The red matter used the Jellyfish blowing up in collision with the Narada. The ship's computer warned Spock about that when he set the collision course.
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
Also, for motivation consider tokamak operation, where fusion requires plasma magnetic suspension. The red matter likewise might require suspension for activation, just gravitational not magnetic.
Recall as well the question as the volume of a sphere in 3 dimensions at the start. Perhaps the red matter must have spherical symmetry over a period of time (in addition to high temperature); for a liquid to maintain spherical symmetry, it typically must be in null gravity, like in the center of a planet.
Also, for motivation consider tokamak operation, where fusion requires plasma magnetic suspension. The red matter likewise might require suspension for activation, just gravitational not magnetic.
Recall as well the question as the volume of a sphere in 3 dimensions at the start. Perhaps the red matter must have spherical symmetry over a period of time (in addition to high temperature); for a liquid to maintain spherical symmetry, it typically must be in null gravity, like in the center of a planet.
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Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
Red matter floats commonly and harmlessly in the cold of space until it encounters a heat source -- and then presumably makes black holes around the galaxy.
The book doesn't limit it to a planet core or super nova. It only requires "enough" heat.
Red matter floats commonly and harmlessly in the cold of space until it encounters a heat source -- and then presumably makes black holes around the galaxy.
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
it could also be a matter of presentation. you have to remember he was out for revenge. he wanted it to be... "delicious." certainly if i was going to destroy a planet it would be "delicious" to see it cave in on itself and have the new black hole be where the planet used to be as a reminder of what was done and who did it. you know how killers have a certain way of killing people sometimes? they don't just kill in every which way, they have a method. why? it's what gives them pleasure. it's not necessarily the most efficient or effective nor the only means by far, but it's the way they wanted to do it. same goes for nero, i think.
it could also be a matter of presentation. you have to remember he was out for revenge. he wanted it to be... "delicious." certainly if i was going to destroy a planet it would be "delicious" to see it cave in on itself and have the new black hole be where the planet used to be as a reminder of what was done and who did it. you know how killers have a certain way of killing people sometimes? they don't just kill in every which way, they have a method. why? it's what gives them pleasure. it's not necessarily the most efficient or effective nor the only means by far, but it's the way they wanted to do it. same goes for nero, i think.
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
why did they need that much anyways??
why not send the jellyfish with one or two drops instead of a bunch as shown...is the vulcan high command into overkill? isn't that just illogical?
why did they need that much anyways??
why not send the jellyfish with one or two drops instead of a bunch as shown...is the vulcan high command into overkill? isn't that just illogical?
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
No; as I said about a month ago, they probably didn't know how much it might take to quell the super nova. It was an extraordinary super nova. They'd start with a little and continue with a lot, if necessary.why did they need that much anyways?? why not send the jellyfish with one or two drops instead of a bunch as shown...is the vulcan high command into overkill? isn't that just illogical?
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
you'd think if the Vulcans could engineer a substance that could make a black hole they could calculate how much they needed...
No; as I said about a month ago, they probably didn't know how much it might take to quell the super nova. It was an extraordinary super nova. They'd start with a little and continue with a lot, if necessary.why did they need that much anyways?? why not send the jellyfish with one or two drops instead of a bunch as shown...is the vulcan high command into overkill? isn't that just illogical?
you'd think if the Vulcans could engineer a substance that could make a black hole they could calculate how much they needed...
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
My question is how did they calculate when it was going to hit Romulus so bad? Spock: "I was too late..." WTF??? I could understand being off by a light year or two but that much? I say this because you would think that Spock would be dropping off the red matter several light years away from Romulus so that it wouldn't effect the planet. But yet Spock was flying straight to Romulus. Talk about miscalculating.
My question is how did they calculate when it was going to hit Romulus so bad? Spock: "I was too late..." WTF??? I could understand being off by a light year or two but that much? I say this because you would think that Spock would be dropping off the red matter several light years away from Romulus so that it wouldn't effect the planet. But yet Spock was flying straight to Romulus. Talk about miscalculating.
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
This super nova was extraordinary; it was said to be able to destroy the galaxy. Some have posited it reached into sub-space. Their calculations likely took in every possible contingency.
First, they didn't engineer red matter; it's naturally occurring. As I mentioned above, it floats around commonly and harmlessly in the cold vacuum of space unless it contacts a sufficient heat source.
This super nova was extraordinary; it was said to be able to destroy the galaxy. Some have posited it reached into sub-space. Their calculations likely took in every possible contingency.
It was no miscalculation; they got it there as soon as they could. As he says, they outfitted their fastest ship. Who knows what its itinerary was. I trust Spock to get there the most efficient way possible.
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
Rather than bending over backwards trying to make all the red matter nonsense make sense, I think we would be better served to just acknowledge that it doesn't really make any sense, and move on from there.
Repeated viewings smooth over the rather substantial bumps of disbelief that one may suffer initially, at least they have for me
Rather than bending over backwards trying to make all the red matter nonsense make sense, I think we would be better served to just acknowledge that it doesn't really make any sense, and move on from there.
Repeated viewings smooth over the rather substantial bumps of disbelief that one may suffer initially, at least they have for me
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
HUSH, fool!
He's only two centuries away! There's no telling what historical documents he might get his hands on by way of the computer on Spock Prime's ship! The very content of this board might be at his fingertips, and here you are giving him ideas! SHEESH!!!!
HUSH, fool!
He's only two centuries away! There's no telling what historical documents he might get his hands on by way of the computer on Spock Prime's ship! The very content of this board might be at his fingertips, and here you are giving him ideas! SHEESH!!!!
RicardoHead
Fleet Captain
Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co
Removing because of the PC wankers who whine above every damn thing at this site.
Removing because of the PC wankers who whine above every damn thing at this site.
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