Crusher in Chain of Command II

[Iruka]

Something I've been wondering...

About the middle of the episode - when Gul Madred seems about to let Picard go, then gets him to come back by threatening Dr. Crusher...
Well, to put it simply, what's he trying to accomplish (aside from the obvious Dramatic Tension thing)? Is he looking for Picard's weakness? If so, it's surprising that he does nothing more with it. Just screwing with his mind, because that's what Gul Madred does? Seems a bit pointless, from an interrogator's point of view.

(Speaking of which, if I were a P/C 'shipper, I think the only scene in the entire series I'd find truly satisfying is the moment in "Attached" where she shoves him through the hole in the forcefield. The rest of the time, it's just too much in the background to even be called a relationship!)

Iruka

 

[Captrek]

Just screwing with his mind, because that's what Gul Madred does?

I think so.

Seems a bit pointless, from an interrogator's point of view.

Don’t think of him as an interrogator. Think of him as a sadist. I thought the episode made it clear that what Madred was doing was not going to get any useful information out of Picard, and Madred knew that, but he did it anyway because he was motivated more by hate and a need to dominate than by a need for information.

 

[JB2005]

I don't think he realised quite how far he could go by threatening Dr Crusher. Madred would have banked on Picard defending a member of his crew (and a female one at that) but didn't realise he was threatening the woman Picard was in love with.

Madred would have had no reason to think that there was anything between the two of them.

 

[Timo]

...Especially if he was as "family-minded" as he claimed to be. He probably couldn't imagine Picard going for a widow, if that was outside the scope of the Cardassian mindset.

If true, this makes Dukat much more a lecher than we'd otherwise think. He was bad by human standards already, but if Madred's Cardassian standards aren't empty propaganda...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JB2005]

In addition he might not have understood how Picard was willing to put the woman he loves in danger

 

[Anwar]

I'd think he'd understand that. I mean Cardassian Society puts loyalty to Cardassia and it's government above EVERYTHING else, even the importance they put on family. If an officer were put in a position to send a loved one on a dangerous mission they'd do it due to Cardassia's interests being above all else.

 

[Praetor]

You know, Dukat does almost make Madred look honorable by those terms.

Clearly, Madred knew Picard was fond of Beverly; he probably read his service record, cross-refenced the Jack Crusher there, figured out the doc was a widow of one of his officers, and thought he could exploit that.

 

[Gary Sebben]

If you've read 1984, which this episode rips off, youd know that...

Spoiler:
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Winston's final brainwashing came after he was threatened with a particularly personal nightmare and his response was to tall the torturer to do it instead to his girlfriend. At that point he's broken. The writer may have been going in that direction.

 

[Praetor]

Sebben, what a clever insight! I hadn't considered the parallels to "1984"! Well done!

 

[JB2005]

^ It's a shame they didn't choose to go down that route...there would have been few things more chilling than hearing Picard cry "No, stop, do it to Beverly"

 

[Praetor]

I don't think Picard's character could have been salvaged from that, though. This ain't BSG.

 

[Gary Sebben]

I don't think Picard's character could have been salvaged from that, though. This ain't BSG.

Yeah, that's the end of the character. I mean, that was the end of the book. There's really no recovery from selling your loved one out to a torturer.

 

[AlphaMan]

I always felt that it was ashame that TPTB never saw it fit to put Picard and Madred face to face again... In a different setting after the Dominion War. That truly could have been Picard's TWOK moment... Or even TUC.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Something I've been wondering...

About the middle of the episode - when Gul Madred seems about to let Picard go, then gets him to come back by threatening Dr. Crusher...
Well, to put it simply, what's he trying to accomplish (aside from the obvious Dramatic Tension thing)? Is he looking for Picard's weakness? If so, it's surprising that he does nothing more with it. Just screwing with his mind, because that's what Gul Madred does? Seems a bit pointless, from an interrogator's point of view.

What do you think has been going on at Guantanamo Bay?

 

[Jbarney]

I always felt that it was ashame that TPTB never saw it fit to put Picard and Madred face to face again... In a different setting after the Dominion War. That truly could have been Picard's TWOK moment... Or even TUC.

If you are interested in such a meeting, you can read about them in some of the novels. I believe Diane Carey's Ships of the Line provides such a scene.

 

[JB2005]

I always felt that it was ashame that TPTB never saw it fit to put Picard and Madred face to face again... In a different setting after the Dominion War. That truly could have been Picard's TWOK moment... Or even TUC.

If you are interested in such a meeting, you can read about them in some of the novels. I believe Diane Carey's Ships of the Line provides such a scene.

I didn't like that, I prefered the One in the TNG Anthology, in Ship of the Line we saw Picard getting the best of Madred far too easily...

 

[Thor Damar]

Sebben, what a clever insight! I hadn't considered the parallels to "1984"! Well done!

Congratulations you have won the Thor Damar award for outstanding services to sarcasm!

And a post DW meet up of Picard and Madred would have been
(although the Garak meeting Madred seen in SiT was sheer brilliance)

 

[LutherSloan]

Yeah, there is one short story and a part of another novel that have them meeting again.

Ship of the Line is one of the more frequently mentioned books whenever there is a 'Worst ST book' thread. I read it myself and it was pretty lousy. You're better off with the far superior short story in 'The Sky's the Limit' TNG anthology.