Janeway "Deserved" To Die? (Spoilers?)

[exodus]

You're trying to tell me what's correct and incorrect about a fictional universe? End of the day it's all made up

My reply would be: No shit.

Once again you miss the point, I'm telling you that you have made a choice and you made it by accepting the books as canon which they aren't. Besides, we come to the forum to debate what is correct & incorrect within this fictional universe everyday. Pointing it out doesn't change what we all come here for.

And also you seem to have missed my point. Which was that I don't really care about canon and not canon because I enjoy the stories!

That's called making a choice.

 

[JB2005]

My reply would be: No shit.

Once again you miss the point, I'm telling you that you have made a choice and you made it by accepting the books as canon which they aren't. Besides, we come to the forum to debate what is correct & incorrect within this fictional universe everyday. Pointing it out doesn't change what we all come here for.

And also you seem to have missed my point. Which was that I don't really care about canon and not canon because I enjoy the stories!

That's called making a choice.

And that's where my argument runs out of steam! Well played sir

 

[Praetor]

As for me, character death isn't an issue. Death is a natural part of life, even in literature. However, books aren't considered canon so if Viacom/Paramount put Janeway in a film and/or have her make an appearance, then those books become null and void. So why put faith in stories that don't exist in the real Voyager continuum?

Well said, exodus. That's pretty much why I only buy/read specific books that interest me, rather than all of them. The series and books are separate entities, and I respect both, but technically the series supersede them, and I agree with that. The books are a spawn of the series, and therefore the series should not be beholden to their special canon. If the series wants to glean elements from the books for use (as was done for some elements in the new film), fine, but the series should not be limited by their own progeny.

I'll add that I'm not going to be particularly interested in a book simply because it says "Star Trek" on it, especially less so if there are not familiar characters to draw me into it. If I am interested in a book, it is usually because what I've heard about the story interests me, or because someone has recommended it on that basis. And while I'm not interested in reading about a dead Janeway, I must admit the hubbub over it has piqued my interest. I'm not going to read it, but I suspect that this was Pocket's goal: making a statement that we should be interested in the books because they're willing to make controversial choices. If so, they've somewhat accomplished their mission, even at the risk of alienating some fans.

So, we're left with trying to find meaning in Janeway's death. I can kind of see it, but maybe it's wishful thinking? But again, fortunately, they're not canon.

(Am I the only one who sorta wants to take a picture of Admiral Janeway and make a "Not. Dead." or "Not. Canon." avatar? )

 

[JB2005]

(Am I the only one who sorta wants to take a picture of Admiral Janeway and make a "Not. Dead." or "Not. Canon." avatar? )

Just put Canon Violation on it!

 

[exodus]

And also you seem to have missed my point. Which was that I don't really care about canon and not canon because I enjoy the stories!

That's called making a choice.

And that's where my argument runs out of steam! Well played sir

So who buys the first round of beers, me or you?

 

[kimc]

(Am I the only one who sorta wants to take a picture of Admiral Janeway and make a "Not. Dead." or "Not. Canon." avatar? )

Actually I've seen some around but I can't remember who had them.

 

[Praetor]

Ah, so I'm not the innovator I supposed myself to be...

 

[kimc]

Ah, so I'm not the innovator I supposed myself to be...

That's when the "great minds think alike" saying comes in handy.

 

[exodus]

Ah, so I'm not the innovator I supposed myself to be...

Don't take it personally, I fail to be original here too.



Now I shall weep.

 

[JB2005]

Ah, so I'm not the innovator I supposed myself to be...

Don't take it personally, I fail to be original here too.



Now I shall weep.

Weeping's been done before :P

 

[exodus]

Ah, so I'm not the innovator I supposed myself to be...

Don't take it personally, I fail to be original here too.



Now I shall weep.

Weeping's been done before :P

DAMMIT!!!!




Forget the beer, I need a Long Island Iced Tea now..........or 5.

 

[Thestral]

... so... for those that are saying the books don't matter/don't count anyway... why in Fek'lhr's name are you complaining again?

Unless you do want to read the books, just without a dead Janeway. In which case we're back to my previous point, that the canon of TrekLit, until superceded by higher/actual canon, has the universe going in a particular direction. A direction approved of by TPTB, the true PTB whose property all of Star Trek is. And just like you had to accept the happy ending in actual canon, you have to accept the unhappy ending in bookcanon.

And if you don't care about bookcanon or the books in general, why is this even an issue for you???

 

[kimc]

Ah, so I'm not the innovator I supposed myself to be...

Don't take it personally, I fail to be original here too.



Now I shall weep.

Weeping's been done before :P

What about weeping while standing on your head?

 

[JB2005]

^^ It's the principle

What about weeping while standing on your head?

tried it, fell over, wept normally

 

[exodus]

... so... for those that are saying the books don't matter/don't count anyway... why in Fek'lhr's name are you complaining again?

Unless you do want to read the books, just without a dead Janeway. In which case we're back to my previous point, that the canon of TrekLit, until superceded by higher/actual canon, has the universe going in a particular direction. A direction approved of by TPTB, the true PTB whose property all of Star Trek is. And just like you had to accept the happy ending in actual canon, you have to accept the unhappy ending in bookcanon.

And if you don't care about bookcanon or the books in general, why is this even an issue for you???

I think you're mistaking personal points of view as complaining.
I don't see anybody complaining, just explaining why they do or don't accept the books.

 

[kimc]

... so... for those that are saying the books don't matter/don't count anyway... why in Fek'lhr's name are you complaining again?

Unless you do want to read the books, just without a dead Janeway. ?

That's the crux of it right there. I could give a flying fig whether the books are canon or not. The fact is if you're a fan of any Trek captain EXCEPT Janeway you can look forward to more full-length novels coming out that features your favorite. Not only have Janeway fans been waiting a while but when one finally comes out it's to see her killed? Plus, there will be no more future adventures? Boo hoo?

The hell with that!

 

[Thestral]

That's the crux of it right there. I could give a flying fig whether the books are canon or not. The fact is if you're a fan of any Trek captain EXCEPT Janeway you can look forward to more full-length novels coming out that features your favorite. Not only have Janeway fans been waiting a while but when one finally comes out it's to see her killed? Plus, there will be no more future adventures? Boo hoo?

The hell with that!

That's not even remotely true. If you had said "any Trek captain who was captain and star in one of the TV shows," then yes. But how about fans of Captain Sulu, Captain Gold, Captain Pike, Captain Dax, or Captain Hernandez? No guarantees there at all.

DS9 fans had no assurance that Captain Sisko would be returning at all, let alone as a featured character. I'll be perfectly happy if he remains as a background character a la Opaka Sulan, and he's my favortie captain.

Actually... Janeway at the end of Before Dishonour and Sisko at the end of WYLB are in very similar places/situations. We've had an example already of a human traveling with a Q and then returning, and I think it's a good bet that after a few years, Janeway will similarly return as Sisko did. Meanwhile, we get to see the crew adjust and grow in her absence - Sisko's absence on DS9 has been wonderful for Captain Kira.

 

[JB2005]

^ DS9 relied more on an ensemble cast than Voyager did though...they had like thirty characters to build upon, Voyager has about ten (and that's generous)...

 

[Praetor]

Ah, so I'm not the innovator I supposed myself to be...

That's when the "great minds think alike" saying comes in handy.

Why, thank you.

Don't take it personally, I fail to be original here too.



Now I shall weep.

Weeping's been done before

DAMMIT!!!!




Forget the beer, I need a Long Island Iced Tea now..........or 5.

Make it ten.

... so... for those that are saying the books don't matter/don't count anyway... why in Fek'lhr's name are you complaining again?

Unless you do want to read the books, just without a dead Janeway. In which case we're back to my previous point, that the canon of TrekLit, until superceded by higher/actual canon, has the universe going in a particular direction. A direction approved of by TPTB, the true PTB whose property all of Star Trek is. And just like you had to accept the happy ending in actual canon, you have to accept the unhappy ending in bookcanon.

And if you don't care about bookcanon or the books in general, why is this even an issue for you???

I think you're mistaking personal points of view as complaining.
I don't see anybody complaining, just explaining why they do or don't accept the books.

Yeah, I for one wasn't complaining. I was just stating my case.

 

[Lynx]

When it comes to "canon" or "not canon", I consider the books as much as part of the ongoing Voyager story as the episodes.

In the Timeline I've made for seasons 1-3 of Voyager, I've included the books which were published during those seasons.

And yes, I've really enjoyed reading those books. Some of them are even better than some of the best TV episodes. If books like "The Black Shore" and "Marooned" had been filmed, they should have been on my top 10 episodes list, in fact "The Black Shore" would have been no 1 on my list.

Ever since the relaunch started, I've considered those books as being the continuing story of the Voyager crew.

However, for certain reasons I can't accept the current direction of the books. I couldn't accept unecessary character destruction in the series and I can't accept unnecessary character destruction in the books either.