David Carradine’s Legacy of Shame

[firehawk12]

Has Morgan Freeman headlined a movie in years though?

At the moment, if you have a big budget movie and want a black actor, you get Will Smith or Denzel Washington.

If you want a white actor, you can choose from Tom Hanks to Russel Crowe to Zac Efron.

Look at all the shitty RomComs that are out now. There's no reason why the leads have to be white in terms of plot, but they use white leads because they know that white leads are more likely to bring in an audience than non-white leads.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So is there a double standard when it comes to making The Honeymooners all black for the movie?

Is that the same thing? Carradine was white man playing a someone who was part asian. The cast of the new Honeymooners were blacks playing characters who were black (even of the earlier versions were white).

He used Avatar as his example. So I compared The Honeymooners to Avatar. How is that not the same thing? They both have fictional characters that are now a different race in their second incarnations.

Yeh, I missed that. Sorry.

I know nothing of Avatar. ( So I looked it up). Not sure if the comparison still holds, Both versions of the Honeymooners feature Americans playing Americans in an American setting. I'm not sure the race of the characters in this instance is as important as the setting and broader culture. If Avatar features Asian characters in pseudo-Asian setting and culture casting Asians seems appropriate.

I still want to know if casting a fully Asian actor like Bruce Lee to play a half-asian/half-white character is as wrong as casting a fully white actor as a half asian./half white character,

 

[Aragorn]

If it means anything, straight-to-DVD action star Don "The Dragon" Wilson (who is Asian despite "Wilson") seems to keep playing characters named Brock, Maddux, Connors, Corrigan, Harper, Phillips, Stanton, etc. Of course, he also has a southern accent. And his movies don't exactly depend on... well... anything besides fight sequences.

 

[Amaris]

Who is ultimately responsible? I think it's about time people take responsibility for their own actions. You didn't get a part. Was it because you're black, or because you weren't the right person for the job? Who sets the guidelines for what is and is not allowable in a work of fiction? Do we get pissed when people put on green makeup to dress as Orions? Isn't that like blackface, only with green paint? Honestly. If I applied for a part in a movie, say an old west style cowboy lead role and wasn't selected, and the part went to a man of Asian descent, does that mean I didn't get the part because I was white? Or was it simply because I didn't have the presence and ability the director was looking for?

Jesus. You know we as a society are going down the shitter when fantasy has to adhere to standards of reality or it's racist, or classist, or some other new offense that makes everyone bitch at everyone else because life's unfair. When works of fiction have to conform to modern sensibilities because people don't like to think they're not chosen because they don't fit the bill for the part of said fiction, no it has to be because they're a minority or gay. This gets projected onto the majority group, in this case white people, and suddenly we're working to keep minorities from being successful or well known, and that's grade A, unadulterared bullshit.

Now I apologize for the language, but stuff like this steams me up pretty good.

J.

 

[sidious618]

Before you know it someone will blame David Carradine for the British occupation of China. "If only he had told them off..."

 

[Squiggy]

So...is this the thread I tell hilarious jokes about Asians?

 

[Amaris]

Before you know it someone will blame David Carradine for the British occupation of China. "If only he had told them off..."

You know he had the influence.

So...is this the thread I tell hilarious jokes about Asians?

Yes.


J.

 

[Zachary Smith]

Heres something funny. When I was in my college years and for a good decade or so thereafter, I REALLY REALLY wanted to be a film-maker. And during that time,I kept hearing with every release he offered, how mis-treated Spike Lee felt he was, how "difficult" it was for him to even get to make a movie, the problems finding financing etc etc etc.

Now, I'm a white male, I was in the 20-40 demographic in those years--you know, the legendary "Ruling Class". GUESS how many feature films I got to make? ZERO.

So SHUT THE HELL UP, Spike Lee. You got to make a CAREER out of film-making. I'm not interested in your sob stories.

It's ALL about money. I remember also when Spike Lee's "Malcom X" came out--a fine movie and great performances. Spike was running around telling every media outlet how ALL kids should be let out of school the day it opened so they could go see this "important" film, learn some "real history" and especially black children could learn real TRUTHS about life and their culture. Spike made these claims in any number of promotional venues-how "important" it all was.

Then someone, I don't remember who and I wish I could, cracked wise that if the film was so "tremendously important", perhaps Spike and his film company and backers might consider showing it for FREE the first day it opened. You know, to make it absolutely as accessible as possible to everyone.

Guess what? Everyone who saw "Malcom X" on opening day BOUGHT a ticket. There were NO freebies from Spike. Gee, I wonder why . . .

 

[Amaris]

Heres something funny. When I was in my college years and for a good decade or so thereafter, I REALLY REALLY wanted to be a film-maker. And during that time,I kept hearing with every release he offered, how mis-treated Spike Lee felt he was, how "difficult" it was for him to even get to make a movie, the problems finding financing etc etc etc.

Now, I'm a white male, I was in the 20-40 demographic in those years--you know, the legendary "Ruling Class". GUESS how many feature films I got to make? ZERO.

So SHUT THE HELL UP, Spike Lee. You got to make a CAREER out of film-making. I'm not interested in your sob stories.

It's ALL about money. I remember also when Spike Lee's "Malcom X" came out--a fine movie and great performances. Spike was running around telling every media outlet how ALL kids should be let out of school the day it opened so they could go see this "important" film, learn some "real history" and especially black children could learn real TRUTHS about life and their culture. Spike made these claims in any number of promotional venues-how "important" it all was.

Then someone, I don't remember who and I wish I could, cracked wise that if the film was so "tremendously important", perhaps Spike and his film company and backers might consider showing it for FREE the first day it opened. You know, to make it absolutely as accessible as possible to everyone.

Guess what? Everyone who saw "Malcom X" on opening day BOUGHT a ticket. There were NO freebies from Spike. Gee, I wonder why . . .

Exactly. I'm also a bit on fire because I just watched some Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t! episodes on Netflix Instant Watch. One of those episodes dealt with reparations. There was this "Doctor" who felt that all white people, who came to this country before or even after slavery, owed reparations. When asked why, he said "because you partake of the system and so you owe us." I just about shit a gold brick. What kind of brass ass do you have where you tell someone they owe you for something they were never involved with in the first place? That kind of thing burns me up, because it sets things back. It's that sense of entitlement, that you are somehow owed something because I'm a part of the majority and you're a part of the minority in this country. It's insane, it's about greedy assholes wanting something for nothing. It's regressive. The same applies to this whole "because I'm black I can't..." fill in the blank line of thought. It's why I get annoyed at people who say "Black Pride!" or "Gay Pride!" in one breath and talk about the incredible racism of what a "White Pride!" slogan would represent. It's a terrible double standard, and it needs to stop. Be comfortable with who you are, but remember, skin color and orientation isn't an accomplishment, it's a biological trait. You didn't do anything to earn it, so don't go throwing it around on everyone else who doesn't see you as some kind of hero or victim for it.

J.

 

[Zachary Smith]

Heres something funny. When I was in my college years and for a good decade or so thereafter, I REALLY REALLY wanted to be a film-maker. And during that time,I kept hearing with every release he offered, how mis-treated Spike Lee felt he was, how "difficult" it was for him to even get to make a movie, the problems finding financing etc etc etc.

Now, I'm a white male, I was in the 20-40 demographic in those years--you know, the legendary "Ruling Class". GUESS how many feature films I got to make? ZERO.

So SHUT THE HELL UP, Spike Lee. You got to make a CAREER out of film-making. I'm not interested in your sob stories.

It's ALL about money. I remember also when Spike Lee's "Malcom X" came out--a fine movie and great performances. Spike was running around telling every media outlet how ALL kids should be let out of school the day it opened so they could go see this "important" film, learn some "real history" and especially black children could learn real TRUTHS about life and their culture. Spike made these claims in any number of promotional venues-how "important" it all was.

Then someone, I don't remember who and I wish I could, cracked wise that if the film was so "tremendously important", perhaps Spike and his film company and backers might consider showing it for FREE the first day it opened. You know, to make it absolutely as accessible as possible to everyone.

Guess what? Everyone who saw "Malcom X" on opening day BOUGHT a ticket. There were NO freebies from Spike. Gee, I wonder why . . .

Exactly. I'm also a bit on fire because I just watched some Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t! episodes on Netflix Instant Watch. One of those episodes dealt with reparations. There was this "Doctor" who felt that all white people, who came to this country before or even after slavery, owed reparations. When asked why, he said "because you partake of the system and so you owe us." I just about shit a gold brick. What kind of brass ass do you have where you tell someone they owe you for something they were never involved with in the first place? That kind of thing burns me up, because it sets things back. It's that sense of entitlement, that you are somehow owed something because I'm a part of the majority and you're a part of the minority in this country. It's insane, it's about greedy assholes wanting something for nothing. It's regressive. The same applies to this whole "because I'm black I can't..." fill in the blank line of thought. It's why I get annoyed at people who say "Black Pride!" or "Gay Pride!" in one breath and talk about the incredible racism of what a "White Pride!" slogan would represent. It's a terrible double standard, and it needs to stop. Be comfortable with who you are, but remember, skin color and orientation isn't an accomplishment, it's a biological trait. You didn't do anything to earn it, so don't go throwing it around on everyone else who doesn't see you as some kind of hero or victim for it.

J.

Now, I must admit that I'm all in favor of "Slave Reparations". Anyone and EVERYONE who was a slave and in forced bondage prior to the Emancipation Proclamation should be entitled to due reparations.

What's that? They're ALL dead?

Well, I guess so is the issue then.

 

[Amaris]

Heres something funny. When I was in my college years and for a good decade or so thereafter, I REALLY REALLY wanted to be a film-maker. And during that time,I kept hearing with every release he offered, how mis-treated Spike Lee felt he was, how "difficult" it was for him to even get to make a movie, the problems finding financing etc etc etc.

Now, I'm a white male, I was in the 20-40 demographic in those years--you know, the legendary "Ruling Class". GUESS how many feature films I got to make? ZERO.

So SHUT THE HELL UP, Spike Lee. You got to make a CAREER out of film-making. I'm not interested in your sob stories.

It's ALL about money. I remember also when Spike Lee's "Malcom X" came out--a fine movie and great performances. Spike was running around telling every media outlet how ALL kids should be let out of school the day it opened so they could go see this "important" film, learn some "real history" and especially black children could learn real TRUTHS about life and their culture. Spike made these claims in any number of promotional venues-how "important" it all was.

Then someone, I don't remember who and I wish I could, cracked wise that if the film was so "tremendously important", perhaps Spike and his film company and backers might consider showing it for FREE the first day it opened. You know, to make it absolutely as accessible as possible to everyone.

Guess what? Everyone who saw "Malcom X" on opening day BOUGHT a ticket. There were NO freebies from Spike. Gee, I wonder why . . .

Exactly. I'm also a bit on fire because I just watched some Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t! episodes on Netflix Instant Watch. One of those episodes dealt with reparations. There was this "Doctor" who felt that all white people, who came to this country before or even after slavery, owed reparations. When asked why, he said "because you partake of the system and so you owe us." I just about shit a gold brick. What kind of brass ass do you have where you tell someone they owe you for something they were never involved with in the first place? That kind of thing burns me up, because it sets things back. It's that sense of entitlement, that you are somehow owed something because I'm a part of the majority and you're a part of the minority in this country. It's insane, it's about greedy assholes wanting something for nothing. It's regressive. The same applies to this whole "because I'm black I can't..." fill in the blank line of thought. It's why I get annoyed at people who say "Black Pride!" or "Gay Pride!" in one breath and talk about the incredible racism of what a "White Pride!" slogan would represent. It's a terrible double standard, and it needs to stop. Be comfortable with who you are, but remember, skin color and orientation isn't an accomplishment, it's a biological trait. You didn't do anything to earn it, so don't go throwing it around on everyone else who doesn't see you as some kind of hero or victim for it.

J.

Now, I must admit that I'm all in favor of "Slave Reparations". Anyone and EVERYONE who was a slave and in forced bondage prior to the Emancipation Proclamation should be entitled to due reparations.

What's that? They're ALL dead?

Well, I guess so is the issue then.

Sounds fair to me.

J.

 

[Aragorn]

In my state, whenever a minority commits a major crime (I'm a minority, FYI), there will always be someone or a group of someones who come out and say he/she was a victim too. A gangbanger murders a cop, and some pastor/minister guy said the gangbanger was as much of a victim as the cop he killed!!!!

 

[Possum]

My main problem with the original article is that they could have waited until David Carradine is at least in the US and buried before they call out his entire career as shit.

Yeah, he wasn't Asian at all, shouldn't the network, the producers, be called out on that? Say that he does stand up and say "Hey that is totally racist that I be cast as part-Asian!" Next thing you know the role of Caine is filled by another white guy. I mean it would have been noble for him to have fell on his sword but I don't think he singlehandedly would have changed Hollywood's portrayal of Asians by not taking the Caine role. In the 90s, yes, he does Kung Fu: The Legend Continues as Caine as a quarter Asian man. I don't recall any other Asian themed TV shows in the 90s in the US except for All-American Family (as I think it was called). I don't think Carradine did anything to keep any television projects made.

I can sympathize with Asian Americans being upset and disgusted with the state of television. I can't blame them. Heck, a couple of weeks ago I saw a Murder She Wrote on TV from 1987 (!) guest starring George Takei. I was like "awesome!" expecting he'd be playing a police chief, someone in a position of responsibility, or maybe the victim, especially as he has his great voice. No, he was a "eccentric" janitor speaking in broken English. I felt so bad for him and disgusted with how he was being used.

 

[Zachary Smith]

My main problem with the original article is that they could have waited until David Carradine is at least in the US and buried before they call out his entire career as shit.

Yeah, he wasn't Asian at all, shouldn't the network, the producers, be called out on that? Say that he does stand up and say "Hey that is totally racist that I be cast as part-Asian!" Next thing you know the role of Caine is filled by another white guy. I mean it would have been noble for him to have fell on his sword but I don't think he singlehandedly would have changed Hollywood's portrayal of Asians by not taking the Caine role. In the 90s, yes, he does Kung Fu: The Legend Continues as Caine as a quarter Asian man. I don't recall any other Asian themed TV shows in the 90s in the US except for All-American Family (as I think it was called). I don't think Carradine did anything to keep any television projects made.

I can sympathize with Asian Americans being upset and disgusted with the state of television. I can't blame them. Heck, a couple of weeks ago I saw a Murder She Wrote on TV from 1987 (!) guest starring George Takei. I was like "awesome!" expecting he'd be playing a police chief, someone in a position of responsibility, or maybe the victim, especially as he has his great voice. No, he was a "eccentric" janitor speaking in broken English. I felt so bad for him and disgusted with how he was being used.

So do you mean to suggest there AREN'T eccentric Asian janitors who speak broken English?

 

[pookha]

I can honestly say though, one of the most racist channels I know is BET.
You ever watch that channel? First of all, finding a white guy on there is hard as hell, and when you do, he's some stereotypical version of a white guy. I would say BET has done more to advance the cause of racism than any other English speaking television channel. Wouldn't you?

J.

have you checked their movie line..
scary movie, sunset park (the coach is a white woman) training day (the corrupt cop is black, the good guy cop is white) inside man (a pretty racially diverse movie even though the primary hero cop is black) ladykillers,

 

[RJDiogenes]

One of those episodes dealt with reparations.

Well, "Reparations" is just the Left Wing reaching the level of self-parody. This is why they're almost as bad as the Right Wing now. We need another cultural revolution like we had in the 60s.

 

[firehawk12]

The whole problem with this "get over" attitude is that it's fairly patronizing... even to someone like me, who only worries about it ironically rather than in any serious fashion.

The thing is that the idea of race is a social construct anyway - constructed during the birth of science as a way to justify the superiority of one race and gender over the other and then used to justify Christianizing "savages" in America, using human slaves in Africa and treating women like animals in Europe.

Ultimately, there just needs to be a new metaphor for constructing race in order for any real change to happen. Most likely, that'll happen when China or India simply surpasses America and Europe economically, militarily and finally, culturally. It's ironic, but globalization will end up being a contributing factor to changing the way race is constructed.

That's my version of believing in Heaven anyway.

 

[barnaclelapse]

So...is this the thread I tell hilarious jokes about Asians?

Yes, yes it is.

 

[Zachary Smith]

One of those episodes dealt with reparations.

Well, "Reparations" is just the Left Wing reaching the level of self-parody. This is why they're almost as bad as the Right Wing now. We need another cultural revolution like we had in the 60s.

Wrong. I'm about as "Left" as you get and I think the idea of people paying reparations for offenses they didn't commit to people who didn't suffer the offense being cited is blatantly stupid.

"Slave Reparations" is NOT a "Left/Right" issue. It concerns a certain group of people trying to leverage an historical circumstance and EXPLOIT it to make money. Pure and simple.

 

[doubleohfive]

Look at all the shitty RomComs that are out now.

Romulan Commanders?