Fans, what don't you like about TNG?

[Warped9]

Another companion thread. I'm compartmentalizing in an effort to avoid derailing the main subject matter of the threads.

Seriously, though, as much as we love our favourite shows there are always things we're not content with, wholly or in part. There are always things we feel could have been better.

So what didn't you like about TNG?

For myself I'd have liked a little more edge to the characters and the storytelling, something like what we got in some of the early Pocket Book novels. Picard had some attitude there and could come off as a bit of a hardnose even when he was usually right.

I never cared for the uniforms from the third season onward. They looked so stiff and silly with the zipper seam up the back. The initial uniform design needed to be revised and it only looked good on those with the right physique. Note how much better Picard looked in second season as opposed to first after he'd filled out some. But I like the initial design because it harkened back conceptually to what we saw in TMP. Maybe if TNG had opted for something more like the initial DS9 uniforms.

 

[startrekwatcher]

TNG was probably the only Trek series I didn't have a lot to not like. I enjoyed all the characters. I thought seasons 3-6 were the most consistently solid of all shows. I liked the villians they created.

That said, I would have liked them to have turned their season finales/premieres into longer story arcs instead of wrapping them up in two episodes.

I thought by season seven the show was running out of steam and sort of just winged it.

I would have liked to have seen more of Troi and Crusher.

I would have liked to have seen more of the Romulans.

By season six, I was tired of the Klingon stories and they were running it into the ground which DS9 continued.

 

[Praetor]

For me, the abortion of the early-seasons promise of going further out there than TOS had, and a tendency to have everyone in the crew get along and be perfect.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Comes down to one thing for me, the show needed more exploration.

We got less "Strange New Worlds" and more "let's go on another dull diplomatic mission" stories.

That is my only major complaint. There were small problems and annoyances throughout the show, but overall it was great.

 

[Jayson]

To me the characters are pretty bland. Even though the show didn't have the huge ensemble on reacurring characters like Ds9 I have always felt the shows really depended on the quality of the guest stars. Q, Barclay,Ro et would come in and basically steal the show. TNG really suffered by not having more conflict among the characters or family-making type of conflict as I would call it that you would see between Kirk/Spcok/McCoy and on Ds9 O'Brien/Bashir Odo/Quark etc. The TNG characters were boring when they were interacting with each other except Picard/Crusher which they hardly did anything with and Data/Geordi.

Also there was to much technobabble. TNG invented it. It seemed to get worst with each passing season. Also TNG was pretty bad when it comes to exciting action, which is kind of bad thing when your characters aren't intresting enough to carry the show.

The strength of the show was the quality of it's writers. Pillar worked magic in making the show decent for the most part because the Roddenberry rules was pretty inhibiting to creativity.

Jason

 

[Orac Zen]

TNG was probably the only Trek series I didn't have a lot to not like.

Same here. Except for...

By season six, I was tired of the Klingon stories and they were running it into the ground which DS9 continued.

This. The Klingons were waaaay overused and overdone; I reached a point where hearing the phrase "It is a good day to die" made me want to make it so and kill whichever character said it. I never found the Klingons particularly interesting anyway so seeing so much of them became pretty wearing.

It would have been pleasant to have seen more of the Romulans. And it would have been nice if season 7 hadn't been so hit and miss, although the "hits" were usually brilliant and "All Good Things..." was a superb finale.

Otherwise, no major issues with TNG for me. I've never gone along with the "boring characters" / "too PC" / "too 80s" complaints that the show often attracts. To each their own and all.

 

[Xerxes1979]

I never liked the addition of ever more backstory and filler to Picard's character.

The fact that he somehow is a reknown amateur archeologist and horseback rider just weakened the no nonsense pure professionalism Picard I was always fond of.

I want my captain facing down Romulans in the Neutral Zone not engaged in contrived conversations about Mr. Mott or scientific seminars.

 

[Praetor]

Xerxes1979, I really like your avatar.

For me, it's hard to nitpick TNG because I grew up on it. It's hard to be objective.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Xerxes1979, I really like your avatar.

For me, it's hard to nitpick TNG because I grew up on it. It's hard to be objective.

Thanks Praetor , the 70k size limit is absolutely brutal. I am still searching through TNG for good material. TOS with its fixed camera shots is so much easier for making good clips.

 

[byron lomax]

Re-watching TNG recently, one thing that irked me at times is the lack of consequences certain events have on characters. In the wake of his assimilation by the Borg, Picard got a follow-up episode, which dealt with the aftermath. But that's one of very few examples. Potentially life-altering experiences are forgotten by the next episode. But as this was common for TV shows in general at the time, it would be pretty unfair to judge TNG over that.

 

[RAMA]

I am ok with some of Wes's presence but probably 70% of the time we could without him.

Tasha Yar was a good character, but played by a bad actress. No wonder the writers never developed her.

I wish they had kept the music and camerawork from season 1 and combined it with the improved stories of later years.

I HATE that they transferred it to video...the very thing which allowed a mini-movie to be played on TV each week is what damned it in the future. It will now require tremendous time and effort to truly convert the show to a modern HD format. I'm sad at the shortsightedness.

 

[Jaespol]

More action, I always felt we needed just a little more action. We didn't necessarily need a contrived situation where every week the Enterprise went to red alert no matter what (like Voyager) but some more phaser action would have been good.
I also felt that there was less emphasis on Crusher on the later seasons and would have liked to have seen more of her later on.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

TNG really suffered by not having more conflict among the characters or family-making type of conflict as I would call it that you would see between Kirk/Spcok/McCoy and on Ds9 O'Brien/Bashir Odo/Quark etc. The TNG characters were boring when they were interacting with each other except Picard/Crusher which they hardly did anything with and Data/Geordi.


Jason

You know, I used to argue the same thing but I've changed my mind.
There was a lot more conflict going on between the characters than people remember. It wasn't going on in every episode and it certainly wasn't on the level of DS9, but it was there.

One good example, Worf refusing to save the dying Romulans life. Picard, Riker and Crusher all tried to talk him into it and were obviously disappointed that he didn't choose to.

Worf also had a lot of conflict with Alexander.

Riker had major problems with his father.

There was the short lived Pulaski/Data thing going on.

Those are just a few examples, there are many more. I'm not saying that perhaps the show could have used a bit more at times, but there was more conflict between the characters than people think.

 

[Jayson]

TNG really suffered by not having more conflict among the characters or family-making type of conflict as I would call it that you would see between Kirk/Spcok/McCoy and on Ds9 O'Brien/Bashir Odo/Quark etc. The TNG characters were boring when they were interacting with each other except Picard/Crusher which they hardly did anything with and Data/Geordi.


Jason

You know, I used to argue the same thing but I've changed my mind.
There was a lot more conflict going on between the characters than people remember. It wasn't going on in every episode and it certainly wasn't on the level of DS9, but it was there.

One good example, Worf refusing to save the dying Romulans life. Picard, Riker and Crusher all tried to talk him into it and were obviously disappointed that he didn't choose to.

Worf also had a lot of conflict with Alexander.

Riker had major problems with his father.

There was the short lived Pulaski/Data thing going on.

Those are just a few examples, there are many more. I'm not saying that perhaps the show could have used a bit more at times, but there was more conflict between the characters than people think.

There was some conflict but rarely amongst the main cast. The conflict you mention in "The Enemy" though is a good example of stuff we should have seen more of. That is one of my favorite episodes. Kind of irks me though they could only do that type of conflict with Worf. You would sometimes get what I would call polite disagreements but to me that hurts in creating real drama if you got characters walking on eggshells so they don't offend each other. This in turn hurts in bonding the characters.

What I love about Spock/McCoy is that even though they would get into real arguments they cared about each other. On Ds9 O'Brien and Bashir didn't like each other at first and that turned into a good friendship. Being poltite and overly respectful is what you do with strangers you don't know. When your with family or friends you don't really have to censor yourself and we needed more of that on TNG.

Jason

 

[RAMA]

TNG really suffered by not having more conflict among the characters or family-making type of conflict as I would call it that you would see between Kirk/Spcok/McCoy and on Ds9 O'Brien/Bashir Odo/Quark etc. The TNG characters were boring when they were interacting with each other except Picard/Crusher which they hardly did anything with and Data/Geordi.


Jason

You know, I used to argue the same thing but I've changed my mind.
There was a lot more conflict going on between the characters than people remember. It wasn't going on in every episode and it certainly wasn't on the level of DS9, but it was there.

One good example, Worf refusing to save the dying Romulans life. Picard, Riker and Crusher all tried to talk him into it and were obviously disappointed that he didn't choose to.

Worf also had a lot of conflict with Alexander.

Riker had major problems with his father.

There was the short lived Pulaski/Data thing going on.

Those are just a few examples, there are many more. I'm not saying that perhaps the show could have used a bit more at times, but there was more conflict between the characters than people think.

There was some conflict but rarely amongst the main cast. The conflict you mention in "The Enemy" though is a good example of stuff we should have seen more of. That is one of my favorite episodes. Kind of irks me though they could only do that type of conflict with Worf. You would sometimes get what I would call polite disagreements but to me that hurts in creating real drama if you got characters walking on eggshells so they don't offend each other. This in turn hurts in bonding the characters.

What I love about Spock/McCoy is that even though they would get into real arguments they cared about each other. On Ds9 O'Brien and Bashir didn't like each other at first and that turned into a good friendship. Being poltite and overly respectful is what you do with strangers you don't know. When your with family or friends you don't really have to censor yourself and we needed more of that on TNG.

Jason

STNG is an example of an idea show...while the characters were more developed than the previous show, they were often in service of the stories, which is how I liked it.

RAMA

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

TNG is my least favorite Trek. So...

What I didn't like:

Data (go ahead, throw stuff). Not into androids. Following on from that Data's touching one night stand with Tasha Yar, I know people see this as a ship but I see it as Tasha and the Huge Dildo.

Geordie. Didn't actually dislike him as a person but god he was boring. And so many scenes with Data AND Geordie, ::goes and makes coffee::

Dr. Crusher. Only thing I ever liked about her was her hair. Very beautiful hair, nothing else to say. Horribly emo in the novels.

Troi. "I'm feeling that you are feeling blah blah.." Really. If someone said this to me *uninvited* I would want to smack them in the face. I mean FINE if you made an appointment to talk about yourself but who needs this crap when you just want to sit in Ten Forward and stare at the stars?

Guinan. Stop smiling like you know really important stuff but you won't tell Picard what you actually know. You are ONLY saved from my complete disgust because Soran said El Aurians were called "listeners". So I can blame your smug gooey zen-ness on your race.

The Poker Games. These typify how boring all these people are. Seriously, does that look like a fun evening, the inane banter?

"Oh Data.. titter titter"

:: Data looks confused::

The Hilton Ship. I didn't realize how much this annoyed me until I switched back to TOS and until ENT. Really I expect little Bolian maids to come into Ten Forward when the lights are dim, pushing their carts of cleaning fluids.

THE GODDAMN HOLODECK STORIES. Sherlock Holmes? Dixon Hill? The Wild West? Can we PLEASE return to space? And of course ALL the episodes where the Holodeck, any Holodeck, goes wrong. Royale anyone?

And the single thing I like the least about TNG:

Riker. What a smarmy git.

 

[Mojochi]

Troi, mostly. I mean if I have to watch her writhe in her chair one more time, when she is obviously noting something of an empathic nature, a good ten to twenty seconds before the "alien vessel" fires on the Enterprise, I'm going to scream

You might want to speak up. It would be good info to have, knowing that the aliens are thinking about shooting at us. I find myself keying on her now, in those situations. What are you doing? Why are you on the bridge if not to help us with stuff like that?

That & she is more than willing to toss out her notions about psychological health at the drop of a hat, but when situations arise where it might be needed, she is nowhere to be found. For example, when poor old Scotty is drinking himself into oblivion, because he's geriatric, can't integrate into the 24th century, & no one even bothers to give him the time of day. You think she might have been a decent shoulder to lean on in that case? She could have ponied up & listened to some of Scotty's stories for a while. He's a damn legend!

End of Rant. LOL

 

[Forbin]

Deanna's early costumes and hair.

Wesley saving the day.

Holodeck malfunctions.

Tasha. Just didn't like her.

Worf having three jobs (security chief, tac officer, and fricking receptionist) while having to stand at that rail for his entire shift.

The eclectic diversity of the bridge staff - does every starship have this variety of halfbreeds, handicapped, underage and artificial crew in one room?

Technobabble: Stop the Madness!

2,000 people on board and every adventure involved only the bridge crew.

More as I think of them...

 

[Mojochi]

And of course ALL the episodes where the Holodeck, any Holodeck, goes wrong. Royale anyone?

Royale wasn't a holodeck episode

Good call on the poker games though. that made me laugh

 

[Mojochi]

I mean it's REALLY close to a holodeck episode, but not officially one. LOL