David Carradine’s Legacy of Shame

[Griever]

You're about thirty-five YEARS too late if your intent is in taking Carradine to task for this "offense". You may as well be complaining about Amos 'n
Andy or some of the truly tasteless depictions of some minorities from the 1930's or 1940's. At least Carradine's character WAS a positive role-model and the producers were right in their choices about what to do for making the show, "Kung Fu" popular. If not, we wouldn't be talking about it now.

I am not taking him to task, the blogger was. I'm merely pointing out that criticizing someone's legacy is not a character assault. And this would have less impact if he were still living. He is just an actor, but even if it is a small part, his work ties in to the fabric of the mass media's erasure of minorities.

Face it, especially at the time, far and away the majority of the television viewing audience was white. People DO tend to like to see shows about people who look like themselves (hence your own support of "minority representation").

Actually minorities watch white shows regularly, but there are only a few exceptions when whites watch minority shows.

Like it or not, there is, unfortunately a VERY real chance that if Caine HAD been played by an Asian, the show wouldn't have lasted and would be LONG forgotten by now. And what good would that have done? As it is, millions of people were introduce positively to certain Asian concepts and role-models via "Kung-fu". The show, and Carradine, did far more good than harm here

It's not just representation. It's positive representation. For every one David Palmer or Robert Hawkins you'll be overwhelmed with many more Geordi LaForges, Curtis Mannings, or the always interesting Travis Mayweathers.

What good would have an attempt done!? It would have been an attempt. Which is better than not trying at all.

 

[Amaris]

Well, I do. I guess I'm one of those race-mongers you despise so much.

Nope, and jumping to conclusions gets you nowhere but on the wrong side of a cliff.

How can I not give a flying fuck when minorities are grossly underrepresented in tv and movie roles?

Oh, I don't know, ...don't.

Honestly. Think about it. The reason you see so many white people on television is because there is a shitload of white people in this country. White folks make up about 74% of the population. 74% or roughly 225 million white people. Gee, I wonder if that means there will be greater representation in the entertainment media.

How can I not give a flying fuck when the majority of those few roles that go to minorities play to stereotypes?

You do realize that stereotyping isn't limited to race, correct? For example, when was the last time you saw a science fiction fan represented accurately? Movies tell stories, and they do it with commonly accepted themes. These themes are usually looked upon as flights of fancy and fiction.

Those stereotypes reinforce perceptions of minorities and the deck is stacked against a change in that portrayal.

Anyone who takes a stereotype as completely factual and unbiased should not be defended. You're arguing the defense of someone being so biased and so ignorant, that Hollywood has to babysit them by being completely 100% based in fact. Well, there goes every type of movie but a documentary.

Many of us live in self segregated communities and don't come in to contact with minorities in our social lives.

That is sad, but it's not Hollywood's problem.

Our perceptions of others are shaped by the limited contact we have and images we may see in mass media. Unfortunately as liberal as Hollywood is, they have no clue how to diversify and practice inclusion, which leads to whitewashing or bland token roles.

I don't know, new Star Trek movie looks great to me. Uhura didn't run around yelling about birthin' no babies, and Sulu didn't squint his eyes and talk like he was instructing Daniel-san. Progress? Maybe. Then again, maybe if it had happened, I'd have seen it for the obvious farce it was. Then again, Star Trek is a documentary, so I would have probably believed it, being Hollywood has to be the one to educate me.

Positive roles are needed to combat stereotypes and Kung Fu could have provided a step forward after the debacles of Charlie Chan and Kato.

I am so going to be pissed if Blacula turns out to be a work of fiction.
Did you see how he bit that girl's neck? Now that's a playa.

There's also a need for positive roles so that when young kids are playing in their backyards they can say I'm Batman, and not have his douchebag of a friend remind him that he's white and that the majority of minority superheroes suck.

Sounds to me like he needs better friends. I didn't realize that you can only associate with superheroes if they match your skin color.

Dammit, sorry, Lando's got to go.

That is why there is no equation between changing a white role to a minority role and vice versa. Hollywood has so much history of erasing minorities or subjugating them that the exception doesn't make much of an impact.

It's Hollywood. Taking something as fact when Hollywood's been all over it is rather unwise, don't you think? Honestly, think about it. You're getting upset about stereotypes and misrepresentation by a fantasy factory.

It may not seem important to white people who see people that look like them represented all over the television, but I certainly give a flying fuck.

White people? Really? So far, from what I can tell, black people can't look up to a white superhero because he's white, white folks don't seem to care because they're only involved with themselves, well kiss my grits, I think someone's a little racist themselves!

The difference between you and I? I see a world of color. You see a world of division.


J.

 

[Griever]

Oh, I don't know, ...don't.

When views like yours are the prevailing ones I must.

Honestly. Think about it. The reason you see so many white people on television is because there is a shitload of white people in this country. White folks make up about 74% of the population. 74% or roughly 225 million white people. Gee, I wonder if that means there will be greater representation in the entertainment media.

If you subtract Latinos it drops to 66%.

You do realize that stereotyping isn't limited to race, correct? For example, when was the last time you saw a science fiction fan represented accurately? Movies tell stories, and they do it with commonly accepted themes. These themes are usually looked upon as flights of fancy and fiction.

Yes...because there is a history of systemic oppression of Sci-Fi fans.

Stereotyping is a lazy writer's way to make up for a lack of characterization.

Anyone who takes a stereotype as completely factual and unbiased should not be defended. You're arguing the defense of someone being so biased and so ignorant, that Hollywood has to babysit them by being completely 100% based in fact. Well, there goes every type of movie but a documentary.

How can people not, when our society is so ingrained in stereotypes that we can't even tell that they are stereotypes? People of all colors have prejudice of others and even of their own groups because of the insidious nature of stereotypes. Images are very powerful and have become even more influential in our society since the invention of the moving picture.

That is sad, but it's not Hollywood's problem.

It is Hollywood's. They can display responsible portrayals and start seeking out minority writers and actors for those portrayals.

I don't know, new Star Trek movie looks great to me. Uhura didn't run around yelling about birthin' no babies, and Sulu didn't squint his eyes and talk like he was instructing Daniel-san. Progress? Maybe. Then again, maybe if it had happened, I'd have seen it for the obvious farce it was. Then again, Star Trek is a documentary, so I would have probably believed it, being Hollywood has to be the one to educate me.

Star Trek is a step forward, but can still be criticized on some level. I won't...because in one movie Uhura was certainly a more developed character than Travis Mayweather was in 4 years of Enterprise.

And think about why you used those examples. If media stereotypes don't affect you, why would you expect those types of portrayals?

I am so going to be pissed if Blacula turns out to be a work of fiction.
Did you see how he bit that girl's neck? Now that's a playa.

Sounds to me like he needs better friends. I didn't realize that you can only associate with superheroes if they match your skin color.

Dammit, sorry, Lando's got to go.

I didn't say that I did. My friends did. Hell I still had some that did it when we were playing X-Men Legends a few years ago and I dared to use a character other than Bishop. A fucking video game!

It's Hollywood. Taking something as fact when Hollywood's been all over it is rather unwise, don't you think? Honestly, think about it. You're getting upset about stereotypes and misrepresentation by a fantasy factory.

The first blockbuster movie in the US was Birth of a Nation, an ode to the KKK. It most certainly helped precipitate the rebirth of the Klan in the nineteen teens and twenties.

A work of fiction yes, but it still had a profound impact on society.

I'm not saying that all people are affected on a conscious level by works of fiction (only crazy people are), but definitely on a subconscious level. And it's proven when Implicit Association tests are conducted.

White people? Really? So far, from what I can tell, black people can't look up to a white superhero because he's white, white folks don't seem to care because they're only involved with themselves, well kiss my grits, I think someone's a little racist themselves!

Despite the evolution of my world view, and my growing out of comics, Batman has remained my favorite superhero despite what my friends use to tell me.

The difference between you and I? I see a world of color. You see a world of division.

The difference is that I see the world for what is and have hope for what it could be. You see the world through rose-colored glasses. I know you most certainly don't see a world of color on television. If an alien race studied our media why wouldn't they call us all pink skins?

I don't throw the word racist at individuals around quite like I use to and I would suggest that you do the same because it has this amazing effect of closing minds and ears. But everyone (including myself) is prejudiced and we all have to work towards freeing our minds and unlearning our racist culture. The cycle has to be broken somewhere and the media is a good target because it transmits those stereotypes that we learn in our youth.

 

[Aragorn]

If only Good Will Riker were back on this board...

 

[doubleohfive]

Hush your mouth Aragorn!

 

[Amaris]

Oh, I don't know, ...don't.

When views like yours are the prevailing ones I must.

You mean the one where I base my understanding of people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin? That one? You must?

If you subtract Latinos it drops to 66%.

In math, we call that a majority.

Yes...because there is a history of systemic oppression of Sci-Fi fans.

Stereotyping is a lazy writer's way to make up for a lack of characterization.

Are you sure? You've been so busy looking at the color of people's skin, I don't think you would have noticed.

How can people not, when our society is so ingrained in stereotypes that we can't even tell that they are stereotypes? People of all colors have prejudice of others and even of their own groups because of the insidious nature of stereotypes. Images are very powerful and have become even more influential in our society since the invention of the moving picture.

We can't tell? Really? Whom? I can tell just fine. Then again, I am an informed human being who weighs my perceptions against verifiable data.

It is Hollywood's. They can display responsible portrayals and start seeking out minority writers and actors for those portrayals.

How many minority actors, directors, producers and writers are there in Hollywood? How many of them are writing thought provoking television shows for minorities?

Star Trek is a step forward, but can still be criticized on some level. I won't...because in one movie Uhura was certainly a more developed character than Travis Mayweather was in 4 years of Enterprise.

And think about why you used those examples. If media stereotypes don't affect you, why would you expect those types of portrayals?

That's the beauty of it. I didn't. I took the most foolish, ignorant thing I could think of and used it as an example just for you. You know what I expected in the movie? Uhura doing the work of a gifted Communications Officer, and I expected Sulu to be an exceptional Helmsman. I got what I expected.

I didn't say that I did. My friends did. Hell I still had some that did it when we were playing X-Men Legends a few years ago and I dared to use a character other than Bishop. A fucking video game!

Sounds like you need better friends.

The first blockbuster movie in the US was Birth of a Nation, an ode to the KKK. It most certainly helped precipitate the rebirth of the Klan in the nineteen teens and twenties.

A work of fiction yes, but it still had a profound impact on society.

Roots.

I'm not saying that all people are affected on a conscious level by works of fiction (only crazy people are), but definitely on a subconscious level. And it's proven when Implicit Association tests are conducted.

Implicit Association tests crack me up. It's less association and more speed testing. Then they ask you questions and give multiple choice answers like "I prefer European Americans to African Americans".

Despite the evolution of my world view, and my growing out of comics, Batman has remained my favorite superhero despite what my friends use to tell me.

You need better friends. You need less ignorant friends.

The difference is that I see the world for what is and have hope for what it could be. You see the world through rose-colored glasses. I know you most certainly don't see a world of color on television. If an alien race studied our media why wouldn't they call us all pink skins?

Do you know what I watch?
As for my rose colored glasses, do you know how I've lived?
Do you know where? What do you know about me? Nothing but the color of my skin, and I guess for you, that's enough.

I don't throw the word racist at individuals around quite like I use to and I would suggest that you do the same because it has this amazing effect of closing minds and ears. But everyone (including myself) is prejudiced and we all have to work towards freeing our minds and unlearning our racist culture. The cycle has to be broken somewhere and the media is a good target because it transmits those stereotypes that we learn in our youth.

I use the word where it applies.
I can honestly say though, one of the most racist channels I know is BET.
You ever watch that channel? First of all, finding a white guy on there is hard as hell, and when you do, he's some stereotypical version of a white guy. I would say BET has done more to advance the cause of racism than any other English speaking television channel. Wouldn't you?

J.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Anyway, it was an ignominious start to a career, and it went downhill from there. Carradine milked Kung Fu for as long as possible, and when the milk ran dry, he just squeezed harder, until blood dripped out of the metaphorical udders. He even did a series of Kung Fu workout videos. Quentin Tarantino capitalized on Kung Fu nostalgia by casting Carradine in that pretentious faux-ironic Asiaphile crapfest, Kill Bill. And a few years ago, Carradine did a series of Kung Fu-inspired Yellowbook.com commercials. Get it? Yellow Book? Wink wink, nudge nudge, vomit. In 2009, the heavily yellowfaced Carradine had a role in Crank 2 as a lecherous Chinese gangster named “Poon Dong”. Wink wink… and so on.

I don’t blame David Carradine for all the anti-Asian racism in America. But he had an important and highly visible role in a vicious feedback loop. Audiences identified with his performance of a calm, detached, self-important masculinity seemingly grounded in an exotic Asian tradition. He satisfied certain urges of the audience in that regard, and as he performed, he innovated, and created new and more refined stereotypes with extra layers of self-awareness and sophistication. His performances also worked to naturalize the desire of white people to appropriate the aspects of Asian culture they happened to find most appealing.

Ah, so the writer of the article is not only a racist and segregationist, he's completely insane.

 

[Griever]

You mean the one where I base my understanding of people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin? That one? You must?

No, because to reach that point would require a level of understanding that is beyond what you have displayed.

In math, we call that a majority.

It is, but certainly not as significant as you indicated.

Are you sure? You've been so busy looking at the color of people's skin, I don't think you would have noticed.

I work to make myself aware of all forms of oppression. I'll remember to add geekism to the list in my next sociology class when we discuss intersectionality.

We can't tell? Really? Whom? I can tell just fine. Then again, I am an informed human being who weighs my perceptions against verifiable data.

The prevalence of racist and sexist imagery in our culture indicates that most people are not aware.

How many minority actors, directors, producers and writers are there in Hollywood? How many of them are writing thought provoking television shows for minorities?

How many are given the chance to?

That's the beauty of it. I didn't. I took the most foolish, ignorant thing I could think of and used it as an example just for you. You know what I expected in the movie? Uhura doing the work of a gifted Communications Officer, and I expected Sulu to be an exceptional Helmsman. I got what I expected.

But you've been exposed to it. I can't say or prove that you believe the stereotype, but most people do see some level of truth in stereotypes. And that affects how they interact with other groups.

Sounds like you need better friends.

Well, when you're the only black guy in your unit you don't have much of a choice.

And believe it or not they were among the most enlightened people in the entire unit...

That's something lacking in the USMC.

Roots.

All you can say in response is Roots!? Roots did not cause any tidal wave in media. It really just inspired people to investigate their roots!

Implicit Association tests crack me up. It's less association and more speed testing. Then they ask you questions and give multiple choice answers like "I prefer European Americans to African Americans".

Then you've taken a poorly constructed test. What about surveys in which respondents admit to believing negative stereotypes? I've seen figures from 60% to 75%.

You need less ignorant friends.

And I believe that before you criticize the enlightenment of my friends that your view on race and ethnicity issues needs some clarity.

Do you know what I watch?

Nope, but I know that the lack of roles on television in general can't be an exception in the home of J. Allen unless you have access to an entire spectrum of channels that everyone else does not.

As for my rose colored glasses, do you know how I've lived?
Do you know where? What do you know about me? Nothing but the color of my skin, and I guess for you, that's enough.

I know that what you're saying is indicative of someone that has a limited perspective on race and ethnicity issues and the privilege of not giving a flying fuck that you're underrepresented or negatively represented on all forms of media.

I use the word where it applies.
I can honestly say though, one of the most racist channels I know is BET.
You ever watch that channel? First of all, finding a white guy on there is hard as hell, and when you do, he's some stereotypical version of a white guy. I would say BET has done more to advance the cause of racism than any other English speaking television channel. Wouldn't you?
J.

So I'm a racist for pointing out divisions in our society? Ignoring them doesn't make them go away.

And what is a stereotypical version of a white guy?

BET can be knocked for several things (I do it regularly and don't watch it myself anymore), but its existence is a response to racism on television, not an instance of it. Just as black churches and black colleges were instituted in response to racism and exclusion from institutions.

 

[Griever]

Ah, so the writer of the article is not only a racist and segregationist, he's completely insane.

Yes...pity those poor delusional souls that see racism lurking around every corner.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Actually minorities watch white shows regularly, but there are only a few exceptions when whites watch minority shows.

Minorities presumably watch "white" shows because what you're calling "white" shows are actually some suit's interpretation of a generic universal show, that don't specifically try to appeal to a specific subset of the audience (beyond gender and age...).

A lot of "minority" shows play to the minority in question rather than trying to be universal, hence that's an automatic audience-limiter.

OTOH, when what you'd call a "minority" show tries to have a universal appeal, it gets a wider audience - cf The Cosby Show, Fresh Prince, Oprah...

And as for stereotyping - that's the suits again, and you'll find that actors themselves fall victim to a sort of stereotyping called typecasting. Which means when an actor gets noticed for some thing, the suits will only want him to do that thing again and again...

I don't think anybody's denying that there's an institutionalised racism in Hollywood - nor for that matter in the UK, Bollywood, Hong Kong, etc. But it's a racism of the execs, the producers, and human society as a whole.

Like it or not, everybody has some kind of prejudice - it's human nature. You can't get rid of it quickly - it'll take generations - but you can encourage people to disregard their prejudices.

But inclusivity is the way to do that, not name calling and self-segregation, like the majority of people seem to work it.

 

[Lonemagpie]

As it is, millions of people were introduce positively to certain Asian concepts and role-models via "Kung-fu". The show, and Carradine, did far more good than harm here.

Ah, but remember, in the minds of politicised folks, that's stealing: "cultural appropration" by the evil imperialist white military-industrial-entertainment complex.

And not just a good sign that people of all kinds can like each other and learn from them.

 

[Griever]

Minorities presumably watch "white" shows because what you're calling "white" shows are actually some suit's interpretation of a generic universal show, that don't specifically try to appeal to a specific subset of the audience (beyond gender and age...).

This "universal appeal" you speak of, comes from a white perspective of what's universal. When I say white shows I mean white shows. The suits have the idea that what's white is what's universal. So what I take from what you're saying is that minority shows should appeal to white audiences.

A lot of "minority" shows play to the minority in question rather than trying to be universal, hence that's an automatic audience-limiter.

So when a minority perspective is shown it is limiting, but there is no "white" perspective, just a universal one?

That is what we need to get away from. That whiteness is universal or normal and other perspectives are exotic or the other. That's ethnoocentrism. Specifically anglocentrism.

OTOH, when what you'd call a "minority" show tries to have a universal appeal, it gets a wider audience - cf The Cosby Show, Fresh Prince, Oprah...

Yes, when they appeal to white people they can be very successful. But shows that don't have this "universal appeal' you speak of, are shot down before they ever get a chance to make it out of their infancy. So I guess we'll never know.

And as for stereotyping - that's the suits again, and you'll find that actors themselves fall victim to a sort of stereotyping called typecasting. Which means when an actor gets noticed for some thing, the suits will only want him to do that thing again and again...

To be more specific, stereotypes are conceptions, typecasting is when an actor is attached to a specific type of role in different projects. The two can be, but are not always dependent on each other. And actors of all races are typecasted.

Like it or not, everybody has some kind of prejudice - it's human nature. You can't get rid of it quickly - it'll take generations - but you can encourage people to disregard their prejudices.


But inclusivity is the way to do that, not name calling and self-segregation, like the majority of people seem to work it.

That's what I've been saying! When was self-segregation advocated?

 

[Griever]

Ah, but remember, in the minds of politicised folks, that's stealing: "cultural appropration" by the evil imperialist white military-industrial-entertainment complex.

Cultural diffusion is a good thing.

And not just a good sign that people of all kinds can like each other and learn from them.

But when you basically do the same thing many years later (the casting of Avatar), then learning has not occurred and it becomes cultural appropriation.


Other recent movies that show that learning has not occurred are Balls of Fury and Crank 2.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Ah, so the writer of the article is not only a racist and segregationist, he's completely insane.

Yes...pity those poor delusional souls that see racism lurking around every corner.

Well, let's see:

Anyway, it was an ignominious start to a career, and it went downhill from there.

It wasn't the start of his career, and if it had been it would have been a good one, given how much of a positive influence the show was.

Carradine milked Kung Fu for as long as possible, and when the milk ran dry, he just squeezed harder, until blood dripped out of the metaphorical udders.

Yeah. Kung Fu was a small fraction of a long and varied career; the Trek actors did more milking than David Carradine.

Quentin Tarantino capitalized on Kung Fu nostalgia by casting Carradine in that pretentious faux-ironic Asiaphile crapfest, Kill Bill.

I don’t blame David Carradine for all the anti-Asian racism in America.

How generous.

But he had an important and highly visible role in a vicious feedback loop.

Curse his participation in the quest to eradicate racism!

Audiences identified with his performance of a calm, detached, self-important masculinity seemingly grounded in an exotic Asian tradition.

The whole essence of the character was to be the opposite of self-important. Way to pay attention there, genius.

He satisfied certain urges of the audience in that regard, and as he performed, he innovated, and created new and more refined stereotypes with extra layers of self-awareness and sophistication.

Random sentence generators can be fun.

His performances also worked to naturalize the desire of white people to appropriate the aspects of Asian culture they happened to find most appealing.

My favorite part. Those "white people" are all alike. Curse their desire for multiculturalism! Why can't those poor white folk understand that self-segregation is all teh kewl?

Yup: Racist, segregationist and completely insane. Pity him. Don't follow him.

 

[firehawk12]

While I'm still relatively annoyed by the Avatar casting - especially when one of the actors said all he needed to do was get a tan and he'd look Asian, I think I've given up on the cultural appropriation thing.

As long as we just accept that European-Caucasians are, for the time being, the dominant voice in North American cultural production - it's not really going to change. The lack of any Chinese people in Firefly, a show that supposedly involved a future with a Sino-American alliance is just one of many examples.

But I also look at science fiction anime - which is really the only other true outlet of professional, high quality not Western influenced science fiction stories in the developed world (by necessity if not anything else). My favourite anime is Aria, and it is essentially about a group of people living in a reconstruction of Venice - the main character is even a gondolier. However, the characters all speak Japanese and practice Japanese customs - in speech, manner and even diet. In many ways it fetishizes contemporary Venetian culture - down to glass making and Italian New Years celebrations just - and just absorbs all of that into a dominant Japanese cultural framework.

That's just a long winded way of saying that the same thing happens over there - and when new developed countries evolve and begin producing their own blockbuster films, it's going to be a common thread amongst all cinemas.

I mean, look at it this way. Eventually China's going to get out of its Communist trappings and you'll have a billion middle class Mandarin speakers willing to watch the latest Chinese Batman or Star Trek in 3D Holographic Imax. And when that time comes, the actors will have to speak Mandarin and will have to be Chinese.

We already see it in the films being produced there now - white people in HK films/TV shows are essentially props or plot devices, much in the same way that Asian actors are waiters or chiropractors in American media.

And hell, in 100 years all American media will be in Spanish and star Latino actors anyway... so why sweat it?

As for a PS about Kung Fu itself... I never really understood Kung Fu the Legend Continues. It's the same character at that point, but did they just retcon out the fact that he was supposed to be half-Chinese?

 

[Griever]

Curse his participation in the quest to eradicate racism!

Curse their desire for multiculturalism! Why can't those poor white folk understand that self-segregation is all teh kewl?

Yes, because the majority of whites have always been blazing a trail on the frontier of race relations and not dragged kicking and screaming. Please, show me evidence of this sincere push for multiculturalism.

Yup: Racist, segregationist and completely insane. Pity him. Don't follow him.

It's amusing that an anti-racist would be labeled the opposite.

The only delusional ones are those that deny that others can view the world from a different perspective that is affected by their experiences as a person of color. Those people might make the effort to truly understand why and how someone would arrive at that viewpoint rather than try to understand the other perspective from their own biased lens and say that we should all be colorblind.

 

[Lonemagpie]

But when you basically do the same thing many years later (the casting of Avatar), then learning has not occurred and it becomes cultural appropriation.

Indeed. Though, to be fair, Avatar wasn't actually Asian-created to start with, so the creators can change their mind.

And Shyamalan is Indian anyway, not white, so it can be racist without being a white thing...

 

[Griever]

As long as we just accept that European-Caucasians are, for the time being, the dominant voice in North American cultural production - it's not really going to change. The lack of any Chinese people in Firefly, a show that supposedly involved a future with a Sino-American alliance is just one of many examples.

Why does that have to be accepted? Why can't we come to terms with the fact that we are a multiculutral society and interaction with minorities is a daily reality? Why can't all of us begin doing the necessary work to unlearn our conditioning that allows these things to happen?

I may sometimes sound like a cynic, but I'm actually a realist with idealistic hopes for the future.

I see racial divisions now, but if we do the necessary work to change it then we can truly live up to E Pluribus Unum.

 

[firehawk12]

But when you basically do the same thing many years later (the casting of Avatar), then learning has not occurred and it becomes cultural appropriation.

Indeed. Though, to be fair, Avatar wasn't actually Asian-created to start with, so the creators can change their mind.

And Shyamalan is Indian anyway, not white, so it can be racist without being a white thing...

To be honest, I think that's why the hardcore Asians are even more bitter about it. Like he's a traitor or something.

But it's interesting isn't it? Avatar is seen as a positive representation of Asian characters even though it's an appropriation... very much like the Harold and Kumar movies. Yet, most Asians are okay with it because of the dearth of Asians on TV.

Hell, I still hold the old '00s cartoon "Jackie Chan Adventures" close to my heart simply because it had an all East-Asian cast - both in terms of voice actors and onscreen characters.

 

[Griever]

But when you basically do the same thing many years later (the casting of Avatar), then learning has not occurred and it becomes cultural appropriation.

Indeed. Though, to be fair, Avatar wasn't actually Asian-created to start with, so the creators can change their mind.

And Shyamalan is Indian anyway, not white, so it can be racist without being a white thing...

Prejudice can be internalized and directed at those with the same skin tone. See Clarence Thomas, Juan Williams, Angela McGlowan, Michelle Malkin, etc...