Star Trek as anti-religion

[Michael]

... I believe that is what Trek is trying to portray, that God is in every human heart ...

No offense intended, but this illustrates one of the behaviours I find rather dubious about Christians. They like to think that even non-believers somehow have a connenction to God. Speaking as an atheist I can assure you that this comes across as very condescending. What the fuck, there is no God in my heart. And neither would I want a God in my heart. I'm a perfectly functioning being without a God in my heart.

Again, I'm not attacking you personally. It's just one of the things that bother me about religious people in general.

 

[SeerSGB]

You mean Enterprise crew meeting "God", only to have that God not be what the crew had in mind?

Like the Q for example, what makes the Q not-Gods, apart from "not our definition of God"?

Yep. Every time a God like figure appeared he was always proven to be a phoney in one way or another.

And TNG seems to imply that religion is something that humanity has moved beyond and considers religon the "dark arges"

 

[SilentP]

It doesn't help that one of the few actual omnipotent beings (species) was shown to be fairly antagonistic (the Q). Not sure how one would like to fit the Prophets into this. Sure they're not as directly 'powerful' as the Q, but they do seem to have nearly a totally different MO and mindset from most beings.

 

[Islander]

... I believe that is what Trek is trying to portray, that God is in every human heart ...

No offense intended, but this illustrates one of the behaviours I find rather dubious about Christians. They like to think that even non-believers somehow have a connenction to God. Speaking as an atheist I can assure you that this comes across as very condescending. What the fuck, there is no God in my heart. And neither would I want a God in my heart. I'm a perfectly functioning being without a God in my heart.

Again, I'm not attacking you personally. It's just one of the things that bother me about religious people in general.

I agree with you but I think it's just a lack of comprehension, not arrogance. I remember having theological discussions with a friend that was an Integrist Muslim. He had studied all Abrahamic religions and fully respected all faiths. When he was talking with Jews or Christian, he always talking about the God as if it was all the same and they just had different views and traditions which was fine for him. But he simply didn't comprehend that I did not believe in God in any way.

The majority of humans still need these beliefs, they cannot live without it, without answers about things like death and the purpose of life itself. History shows god went from multiple spirits to conceptual few to only one. It is inevitable that the human race will eventually outgrew religion but it definitely not there yet.

 

[KimMH]

Science is the religion of ST for better or worse. Like organized religion when misunderstood or misapplied it can wreak havoc and be used to subjugate people wrongly into ideas, castes or economic prisons. Like misunderstood religion it can be misinterpreted or understood as many ways as there are adherents.

I do not see ST and Christianity incompatible and do not think ST incompatible with many religions/philosophies which wish for a better future for all.

 

[MikeS]

Although Jean-Luc was more anti-relgion

Am I remembering wrongly the discussion on religion he had with Data in "Where Silence Has Lease"? I seem to remember him believing in something. Perhaps he was an Agnostic?

 

[Deckerd]

I think it has reverberations in ST, like all cultural things. It's not overt at least in Earthers.

 

[CoveTom]

On the topic of religion, as with many areas, Star Trek has been quite inconsistent. This has to do with, among other things, Roddenberry's changing world view over time, the changes in the culture at the time the various series were being produced, and the change from one group of writers/producers to another.

TNG, for example, presented in one episode a future in which all of humanity had "evolved beyond" religion, while in another episode showed that Native Americans still had a very strong religious belief. TNG generally seemed to view religion as something backward and outdated, while DS9 was more tolerant of religious beliefs.

Bottom line? Whether the future presented in Star Trek is one in which there is no religion depends, as so many things do, on who is writing that particular episode.

 

[JTK2099]

I think the ST is not compatible with western religious thought (ie. Christianity and Islam) simply because it shows a future for mankind. Even though not all Christians or Muslims accept the same end times scenarios, those scenarios are integral to their theologies. Western religion usually thinks that Earth was made specifically for humans and that one day God will come and destroy Earth because of the things humans have done. This is obviously not what ST presents.

I do think that non western religious thought could possibly be seen as compatible. The religion of the Bajorans was much more Eastern than it was Western.

 

[CoveTom]

I think the ST is not compatible with western religious thought (ie. Christianity and Islam) simply because it shows a future for mankind. Even though not all Christians or Muslims accept the same end times scenarios, those scenarios are integral to their theologies. Western religion usually thinks that Earth was made specifically for humans and that one day God will come and destroy Earth because of the things humans have done. This is obviously not what ST presents.

Uhm... what? I must admit to being ignorant of much of Islam, but I am quite well-versed in Christian theology. And while Christian theology does certainly teach that the universe will, at some point, come to an end, there is nothing in Christian doctrine and belief of which I am aware that would (a) preclude the notion of life on other planets and/or (b) indicate that the universe has to be coming to an end any time soon that would prevent us from reaching the 23rd or 24th centuries.

 

[Lightinspire]

Scripture in Christianity says the earth will never be destroyed. The King James has been mistranslated when it says the end of the world..the greek word actually means the end of the age...after the 7 year tribulation you have the 1,000 year reign of Christ and then (well, this isn't a church site so I won't go any further) but the earth will never end.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

FYI, since you seem to have a bit of confusion around the issue, being a strong believer does NOT make you a crazed killer. That was someone who tried to place themselves in the role of both the legal system and God. To take matters into one's own hands like that is absolutely and totally WRONG.

As Kirk said in The Wrath of Khan, that was a "little joke." I'm not confused about the virtue of religion and spirituality in our lives, and that was a far better treatment by the media than what happens when they cover a Trek convention.

The Bajorans are one of the reasons I love Deep Space Nine so much. There were shades of gray among them, and the series left open the question that they could be wormhole aliens or the Prophets. That's a lot better than finding a computer run amok or a fraud perpetrated by a power-hungry despot.

"Humor. It is a difficult thing. It is not logical." "Sometimes we learn by doing."

 

[Lightinspire]

... I believe that is what Trek is trying to portray, that God is in every human heart ...

No offense intended, but this illustrates one of the behaviours I find rather dubious about Christians. They like to think that even non-believers somehow have a connenction to God. Speaking as an atheist I can assure you that this comes across as very condescending. What the fuck, there is no God in my heart. And neither would I want a God in my heart. I'm a perfectly functioning being without a God in my heart.

Again, I'm not attacking you personally. It's just one of the things that bother me about religious people in general.

No offense taken..I was not trying to be condescending but just trying to point out what Star Trek V seemed to be saying....maybe I need to reword it to be they believed God is the human heart...The God that Christians and Muslims believe in are really not the same at all..one does not believe Jesus is the only son of God and one does..

 

[JoeD80]

one of the few actual omnipotent beings (species) was shown to be fairly antagonistic (the Q).

Just like the Greek Gods.

 

[Middle Earther]

... I believe that is what Trek is trying to portray, that God is in every human heart ...

No offense intended, but this illustrates one of the behaviours I find rather dubious about Christians. They like to think that even non-believers somehow have a connenction to God. Speaking as an atheist I can assure you that this comes across as very condescending. What the fuck, there is no God in my heart. And neither would I want a God in my heart. I'm a perfectly functioning being without a God in my heart.

Again, I'm not attacking you personally. It's just one of the things that bother me about religious people in general.

Actually, there is a philosophical trend in which some, especially European thinkers, have come to realize the need for transcendence that runs throughout human history and are attempting to discover a way of approaching that without the idea of a God. Also, it is a central teaching of Christianity that we all have a divine image, whether you recognize it or not. It's not meant to be condescending - it's just there.

 

[Anticitizen]

Speaking as an atheist I can assure you that this comes across as very condescending. What the fuck, there is no God in my heart. And neither would I want a God in my heart. I'm a perfectly functioning being without a God in my heart.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think the ST is not compatible with western religious thought (ie. Christianity and Islam) simply because it shows a future for mankind. Even though not all Christians or Muslims accept the same end times scenarios, those scenarios are integral to their theologies. Western religion usually thinks that Earth was made specifically for humans and that one day God will come and destroy Earth because of the things humans have done. This is obviously not what ST presents.

Uhm... what? I must admit to being ignorant of much of Islam, but I am quite well-versed in Christian theology. And while Christian theology does certainly teach that the universe will, at some point, come to an end, there is nothing in Christian doctrine and belief of which I am aware that would (a) preclude the notion of life on other planets and/or (b) indicate that the universe has to be coming to an end any time soon that would prevent us from reaching the 23rd or 24th centuries.

Exactly. The end for humanity or the universe could be as soon as us blowing ourselves up in a nuclear war tomorrow or as distant as the heat death of the universe in billions of years. It is NEVER stated when this time would be. And I agree that nothing precludes the possibility of life on other planets.

 

[Myasishchev]

You mean Enterprise crew meeting "God", only to have that God not be what the crew had in mind?

Like the Q for example, what makes the Q not-Gods, apart from "not our definition of God"?

Q would probably make fun of you if you worshipped him.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I think Star Trek has sadly missed out on some great exploration by eschewing religion. DS9 was all the stronger and more interesting for making religious belief and experience integral to the show. DS9 had a deft way of respecting both the very religious and the utterly non-religious in many story lines while also portraying hypocrisy and religion used abusively. If you had set DS9 in the TOS era the wormhole would have turned out to be a giant computer orifice and Sisko would have defeated the Dominion by making the wormhole collapse through recursive logic.

From the OP's article:

Its appeal as a viable philosophy relies on the false belief in humanity's steady and inexorable moral advance.

Personally I don't believe humanity is on any kind of inexorable moral advance that wouldn't be knocked back to the dark ages by a big war or catastrophe. I find Star Trek's little commentaries about our putting behind the need for personal gain blah blah to be rather sadly naive. While it's a nice picture the shows themselves don't portray it as we clearly have humans making the same greedy, self-interested, violent decisions that they make today. Maybe if Picard opined that this was the Federation's goal rather than the evolved state humanity had attained it would be more believable. Yes I can easily believe a future "peace keeping armada" would hold such a humanist ideal, to pursue moral advancement for all societies. I think moral advancement is a product of scientific and material advancement and it makes sense to me that as Earth is so comfortable in the future you would have a receding of racism, crime and other ills. Bomb the crap out of earth and see how long it takes folks to make fear based decisions that pay no lip service to moral advancement. We did see that in ENT when xenophobia flared in response to the Xindi attack.

So yeah, as the quote says it's appealing. I don't believe in it but it's something that would be wonderful to hold up as a goal of society. I believe can you do this without religion but religion tends to define what the word "moral" even means. It does need to be defined, it doesn't exist in a vaccuum but in a society.

I don't think presenting a moral ideal that doesn't include God is being against God at all. Certainly in the Federation you have to find a way to agree on some moral issues (required for Federation membership) while respecting very diverse belief systems. Really Star Trek could offer a vision of ecumenical success that could challenge and inspire us here on earth. Our religions are not even seperated by species as Trek has, our challenges should be no where near as difficult to overcome. Seeing Federation worlds agree to work towards mutual moral advances while still respecting their diverse religious beliefs could be great Trek, a more realistic Trek than Roddenberry's all God's are false stories.