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Nitpicks with the plot of Space Seed

Navaros

Commodore
Commodore
I think the grand idea of Space Seed is not implemented as well as it should have been.

The idea of Khan and his supermen is supposed to invoke a ton of awe and fear, but the episode didn't bear out the epicness of the idea. All they did of note that differentiated them from anyone else was to look bigger, physically; and use that increased strength to manhandle the crew a bit. That's a good start, no doubt, but to do the idea justice they had to add a lot more to it as well; which they didn't. We are told through exposition that they are god-like, yet what they do in the episode does not bear this out. In other words, in regards to their abilities the episode needed more show, less tell.

Kirk just giving Khan access to read the ship's manuals is a silly plot contrivance. Breaching the security of the ship to 'extend courtesy' doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Besides, they could have gave him anything else to read instead and still been just as courteous.

A crew member helping Khan for no plausible reason is another silly plot contrivance. She agrees to help him why exactly...because she has the hots for his body? There is no way that a pretty woman like that would be desperate for sex, therefore her turning traitor solely to lust after Khan's body makes no sense.

Similarly, Khan is described as being 'magnetic', yet this doesn't come across in his personality. He just comes across as a creepy guy who every woman and man would want to avoid at all costs. A 'magnetic' person would have to have charm; yet Khan has none, and instead has a natural repelling aura.

Khan's alleged super intelligence and superiority isn't really demonstrated. He uses the knowledge he got from the manuals and a woman who helped him for no good reason in order to take control of the ship. How much more intelligence would it have required to have Khan figure out a creative and plausible way to take control of the ship. Ie: If he charmed the crew for several months, earned their trust, and then made his move (of course he would have to figure out a way to keep them from depositing him on a starbase, which just make him hoodwinking them in the long run even better.)

Khan's fellow supermen seemed to be either mutes, or talking heads rather than characters; certainly not worth fearing or being in awe of.

To do the Space Seed story justice, to show enough instead of tell, it should have been an epic 2-5 parter at least. Then they would be able to get rid of the silly plot contrivances as well.
 
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Good points, but all I can say in response to them is, it was a thing of it's time.

Except the part about Kirk giving him the manuals, that is just plain dumb.
 
Most of these points are things I have thought before about this particularly overpraised episode, except the argument that it isn't plausible that a female crew member would help him- reducing the attraction to "he has a hot body" oversimplifies the point. She is the crew historian, and it's made clear she is enchanted, perhaps obsessed with conquerer figures (the art in her cabin), who possessed traits of which she sees in Khan. He's a legend, she's a historian, so she clearly desires to be involved in Khan's legend, to be a part of history herself as the woman at his side. At least that's how I saw it.

Now, whether most of us women would find a buff dude in a ponytail and particularly effeminate, low cut tops as enchanting as Lt. Marla Givers does is also pretty damn confounding.
 
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Ah good points; guess I didn't take her historian/fetish thing into account enough. Although, that then begs the question on how people with unhealthy fetishes that can potentially put the ship in danger due to said fetishes pass the Fed psychological profile tests (another example is the ESP/fetish woman in "Where No Man Has Gone Before").:confused:

Another thing I was considering including in the OP as how he criticized her for her unattractive hair, yet he didn't realize his own hair was even more unattractive. :guffaw:
 
Well, Starfleet did try keeping people with fetishes out, but Temporal Investigations had to travel back and undo that regulation so that James T. Kirk could join Starfleet.

Dude liked crazy-ass space chicks.
 
There is no way that a pretty woman like that would be desperate for sex, therefore her turning traitor solely to lust after Khan's body makes no sense.

You've little experience or knowledge of domestic abuse, do you?
 
You know, I can't really disagree with the OP. Some of the nits I don't find as big a deal plausibility-wise as others do, but it's still not a perfect episode.

I've always thought "Space Seed" was a bit overpraised, as much as I may like Khan and the episode in general. It still has its failings. The theme is what's interesting to me, but even the theme feels a bit conflicted. You have supermen who are not only in many ways "superior" to average men, but they are also displaced in time.

I've often thought the overall goal was to compare forced/structured (eugenic) human advancement to natural advancement in Khan vs. Kirk, but if that was the goal, it does feel a bit muddled. It probably would indeed have been better as a two-parter.

(Crap. Now I find myself wishing they'd remake it for the next movie. Slightly. But. I. Refuse. To. Support. It! :scream:)

You know what's bullshit?

I sat around for all of 1996 waiting for Khan to take over.

What a lazy ass.

You and me both, brother. Geez.
 
Khan and his cohorts were demigods for the time in which they were engineered. The episode showed us that humans in Kirk's era could equal, then best them, without genetic engineering.

Doug
 
They should've explored Khan's motivations more. In the show, he was just conquest-crazy, and frankly his superior intellect should have been able to grok that even if he did take over the Enterprise, where would he go from there? A cloud of mist where the Enterprise used to be after Starfleet hunted him down and blew him up.

Yet there's a tragedy to Khan. He's a victim of genocide--for all we know, he and his seventy are all that's left of the Augments, and the people that found him are the successors to the people he was trying to escape. They should have played up his desperation, bitterness, and hatred of the naturals.

I wouldn't mind seeing a nuTrek film based on Space Seed, with more of a reverse-Gattaca feel.
 
"A reverse-Gattaca feel."

That could work...

(Crap, I can feel myself jumping on the bandwagon. Please pass the Kool-Aid.)
 
Actually I would say that the biggest WTF of the episode was Kirk and co's sudden and unexplained admiration for a dictator. He's so smitten with Kahn that he actually LETS HIM GO even after he tried to kill Kirk, threatened the crew, demanded a world with a population to enslave and tried to destroy the Enterprise.

This just seemed totally out of character for Kirk. I wonder how Uhura felt about Kirk letting them go after one of them actually struck her?
 
Can't see I agree with most of the poster's points, except that the lesser characters deserved more to do and to say.

I'm not sure why Kirk would be concerned about Khan looking at technical manuals of technology hundreds of years more advanced than what he knew. I wouldn't have much concern about giving the schematics for a computer to someone who had only used an abacus. The fact that the abacus user might be able to bridge the gap between the two technologies in the short time Khan had would be unlikely and a testament to his intelligence, something Kirk and crew come to understand too late in the episode.

In addition, the fact that Khan manipulated his environment -- turning a Starfleet officer against her duty because she fell for him -- is a sign of his intelligence and bravado and hardly different than women, some of them highly educated, today who throw themselves at thugs . . . biology and intellect can often be at odds. Think of it: in the short time since he's been resuscitated, Khan has managed to take over the ship and land a babe, feats that are pretty remarkable in any century. Ricardo Montalban is quite charismatic in the role, and I believe he is the character he claims to be.

The story could have made McGivers give Khan schematics to the ship, but that would have negated the necessary plot element that everyone was in some way impressed by Khan, which is required for Kirk to make his decision at the end rather than just haul Khan off to jail. It's not exactly a reprieve, which is why the quote from Milton is offered at the end of the episode.

Could the episode have been better? Sure. There could have been more showing. It is a little tough to accept that, like Kodos, Khan wouldn't simply be viewed as a villain, but the episode tries to make a point that he is in some ways a product of his time as much as of eugenics. But given the constraints of what is essentially a 52 minute bottle show, they accomplished quite a bit. Not my favorite episode but o. k.
 
Actually I would say that the biggest WTF of the episode was Kirk and co's sudden and unexplained admiration for a dictator. He's so smitten with Kahn that he actually LETS HIM GO even after he tried to kill Kirk, threatened the crew, demanded a world with a population to enslave and tried to destroy the Enterprise.

This just seemed totally out of character for Kirk. I wonder how Uhura felt about Kirk letting them go after one of them actually struck her?

It's simple. Mancrush.

/thread over:devil:
 
I watched this episode just recently.

Wow.


I'm very much in agreement with the OP. Quite a number of glaring mistakes. To me, McGivers was not very believable. I mean seriously... I understand her idealization of prominent strong men from earlier centuries, but c'mon. Khan demands her support because he wishes to take over the ship. TAKE OVER THE SHIP. Sure, she can be infatuated, but to give into him so easily? She wasn't surprised at all... Like "What? You want to WHAT? Take over the ship??" Even if she envisioned herself leaving her commission to join him, wouldn't she prefer it to be under lawful circumstances? The possibilities were just opening. There was no need for Khan to take over this ship. After a debriefing at Starbase 12, Khan's entourage would be free to go wherever they like. And if they want to descend upon a planet and gain a foothold for possible influence and eventual takeover, so be it.

But no... she just says "OK, sure--I'll help you take over the ship". Completely unbelievable to me.

There were quite a few glaring mistakes in this episode. Ummmm... remember "Mirror, Mirror"? If someone uses the transporter, a status light flashes on the helmsman's security panel. So... what, there's usage of the transporters to send Khan over to this ship them beam his crew back over to the Enterprise, with no one knowing about it? Even still, with sensors active, certainly Scotty or some other engineering staff member would see the power surge in the Botany Bay's systems as the crew gets revived. C'mon...

And yes, the technical manuals. Well, I'm sorry, but the kind of information that would be easily accessed in a sickbay terminal would not be the kind of details that would allow someone to figure out all of the sensitive aspects of the ship. This was difficult to accept... but OK, let's say Khan is an expert hacker. We're talking over a century later. Computer technology evolved quite fast... just look at what we've witnessed in our own century. I'm sorry, but even Khan's superior intellect wouldn't be that good.

As the OP pointed out, if Khan was so intelligent, he'd use his time more wisely. There's only one perspective I could see... and that being Khan recognizing that he is aboard the most powerful starship in the fleet. So... just getting off at a Starbase would be a major lost opportunity. However, this is one starship. He really thinks that with 72 people he could battle several starships, seasoned captains who've known their ships for years? No... Khan and his people are now in a century that doesn't know them. Put on a face of benevolence and just work on your plans covertly. After convalescing at the starbase, find out a planet that looks suitable for being dominated... then go there. And begin the mission.

Of course, this doesn't make for an interesting episode. So, maybe Khan isn't quite so intelligent... or his ravenous desire for control makes the Enterprise too tempting a target to disregard. As for McGivers, he should have had some kind of hypnotic ability... something that goes along with the genetic engineering--a kind of telepathy. A form of mind meld. THAT would have been believable.


And finally, in the end... Kirk seems to show this "curious respect" for Khan, giving him a chance to build a new world. I'm sorry, once a tyrant always a tyrant. What kind of "experiment" did Kirk think he'd "try out" like this? No... this was not aligned to the way Starfleet operates. And McGivers would have been court martialed. No two ways about it.
 
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