Didn't like it? Still, you have to admit that...

[Trekker4747]

It is all about presentation. If Spock Prime had found Kirk's pod after it landed on the planet, I would have been okay with that. If Kirk had gone to the Starfleet base and Spock Prime arrived after him, I would have been okay with that too.

But Kirk being chased into the cave by a giant monster and Spock chasing it out with fire?

It takes a "special" mind to come up with something like that.

Like Harlan Ellison and Gene Roddenberry?

Spock: "There is a theory. There could be some logic to the belief that time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash. "

Capt. Kirk: "And the same currents that swept McCoy to a certain time and place might sweep us there, too?"

At least they made an attempt to explain the unbelievable coincidence.

My point was, that similiar "currents" swept Young Kirk and Spock Prime to one another.

 

[dkehler]

Like Harlan Ellison and Gene Roddenberry?

Spock: "There is a theory. There could be some logic to the belief that time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash. "

Capt. Kirk: "And the same currents that swept McCoy to a certain time and place might sweep us there, too?"

At least they made an attempt to explain the unbelievable coincidence.

My point was, that similiar "currents" swept Young Kirk and Spock Prime to one another.

Well, okay, but you can't expect the average audience member to remember that episode's explanation of amazing coincidences with respect to time travel.

 

[Trekker4747]

At least they made an attempt to explain the unbelievable coincidence.

My point was, that similiar "currents" swept Young Kirk and Spock Prime to one another.

Well, okay, but you can't expect the average audience member to remember that episode's explanation of amazing coincidences with respect to time travel.

The average audience member likely has a sense of scale and magnitude and realizes that coincidences like this happen all of the time in movies and thus needs no explanation.

 

[dkehler]

My point was, that similiar "currents" swept Young Kirk and Spock Prime to one another.

Well, okay, but you can't expect the average audience member to remember that episode's explanation of amazing coincidences with respect to time travel.

The average audience member likely has a sense of scale and magnitude and realizes that coincidences like this happen all of the time in movies and thus needs no explanation.

The average person likes reality TV. So what?

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, okay, but you can't expect the average audience member to remember that episode's explanation of amazing coincidences with respect to time travel.

The average audience member likely has a sense of scale and magnitude and realizes that coincidences like this happen all of the time in movies and thus needs no explanation.

The average person likes reality TV. So what?

At this point Star Trek is doing very, very, well and is on track of being one of the top movies of the year. It's renewing interest in Star Trek.

So, everything.

 

[dkehler]

The average audience member likely has a sense of scale and magnitude and realizes that coincidences like this happen all of the time in movies and thus needs no explanation.

The average person likes reality TV. So what?

At this point Star Trek is doing very, very, well and is on track of being one of the top movies of the year. It's renewing interest in Star Trek.

So, everything.

Appeal to popularity fallacy. Besides, do we really want Star Trek: Federation Idol next time?

 

[Trekker4747]

Don't like it?

Fine. Don't watch it. Enjoy your books, tapes and DVDs. I've all of Trek on DVD, I've many books (both technichal fiction and narrative fiction) and magazines centered around Trek.

I LOVE Star Trek.

I loved this movie. I can say "goodbye" to what was and still enjoy and look forward to this "new direction" because at the very least it might get a handful of people interested in Trek and get THEM to look into the old movies and shows and say, "Hey! This older shit was better than that movie!"

 

[dkehler]

"Hey! This older shit was better than that movie!"

Hooray, we finally agree!

 

[Gepard]

At least they made an attempt to explain the unbelievable coincidence.

My point was, that similiar "currents" swept Young Kirk and Spock Prime to one another.

GodBen did say that it's "all in the presentation." I don't think he's objecting to time's currents or destiny or whatnot sweeping them together, but to how it's illustrated on-screen. I mean, you could also have a vortex open up and the Hand of God shove Spock Prime out on top of Kirk's pod, but I doubt anyone here would be defending it by invoking City on the Edge of Forever.

That said, Spock's entrance and reveal were awesome enough that I don't care. Nimoy turning aorund to the camera after chasing away a scary monster of doom worked, so there's no worry about how contrived it was.

 

[ShimmeringFacet]

Re: Haters, even you have to admit that:

yet another poster who must have seen a different movie than I.

yes, except losing his homeworld AND his mother, Spock has no reason to lose it.

For a Vulcan or even a half Vulcan, that wasn't a good enough reason. And banging Uhura had nothing to do with any of that but was out of line even for a half Vulcan. Guess she was handy when his seven year cycle came up.

how do YOU know? you a Vulcan or a half-Vulcan?

and how do you know he's "banging" Uhura? how do you know they're much further than the so-called first base?

I agree. I've noticed here and there that a few people instead of saying that Spock is dating, seeing or in a relationship etc. with Uhura, he's "banging", porking, effing, shtupping her or whatnot. It almost seems like they believe it's all about sex between them; that it's unlimited BJs and unloving, unsensual raw and raunchy Monster's Ball type romps that really interest Spock. And maybe this helps to de-legitimize the relationship in their minds. It's as if they don't even see it. And It certainly makes me feel like we saw 2 different films!

Galaxy Quest[/I].

So she's cheap is she? Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[TheGodBen]

Like Harlan Ellison and Gene Roddenberry?

Spock: "There is a theory. There could be some logic to the belief that time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash. "

Capt. Kirk: "And the same currents that swept McCoy to a certain time and place might sweep us there, too?"

Your argument works under the false assumption that I liked TCOTEOF which I did not, I found it to be a boring and somewhat stupid episode until the final ten minutes when it managed to be marginally interesting.

If they found an exact duplicate of Earth in this movie then I would not forgive it just because one had previously appeared in Miri. I don't like Miri.

 

[indranee]

Re: Haters, even you have to admit that:

For a Vulcan or even a half Vulcan, that wasn't a good enough reason. And banging Uhura had nothing to do with any of that but was out of line even for a half Vulcan. Guess she was handy when his seven year cycle came up.

how do YOU know? you a Vulcan or a half-Vulcan?

and how do you know he's "banging" Uhura? how do you know they're much further than the so-called first base?

I agree. I've noticed here and there that a few people instead of saying that Spock is dating, seeing or in a relationship etc. with Uhura, he's "banging", porking, effing, shtupping her or whatnot. It almost seems like they believe it's all about sex between them; that it's unlimited BJs and unloving, unsensual raw and raunchy Monster's Ball type romps that really interest Spock. And maybe this helps to de-legitimize the relationship in their minds. It's as if they don't even see it. And It certainly makes me feel like we saw 2 different films!

Galaxy Quest[/I].

So she's cheap is she? Thanks for clearing that up.

well, can you blame them? look at the sex in most movies these days...

anyway, I think this relationship was wonderfully (and delicately) handled by the writers and the actors. from what we saw on screen, there's more of a chance that they've pretty much kissed before and not much more. in that turbolift scene, they did not seem overly familiar in terms of actual sex. to me it seems as if this tragedy made Uhura "emotionally bolder" and brought them closer. the emotional undercurrents between them were perfect, fragile.

they should keep it at "nuance" and not make it a full bore "realtionship" in the next movies.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I thought the Spock/Uhura relationship was sweet for the following reasons:

1. It played off the chemistry Spock and Uhura had in early episodes of TOS.
2. Uhura seemed to really care about Spock when Vulcan was destroyed.
3. Even the scene where she "bullies" him into assigning her to the Enterprise was cute rather than annoying.

Also, it was a pleasant surprise, something which I never saw coming but, when it showed up on screen, made me say "Yeah, I can see that--hey, cool!" Not a lot of stuff in this movie really did that for me.

On another note: I'm gonna post this in several spots because it bears repeating. I've been sorta kinda damning this movie with faint praise (or is it praising it with faint damnation?) for a while now but I have anecdotal proof that it is doing the one thing many of us--cheerleader, naysayer and reluctant admirer alike--hoped it would. A former student of mine, now a high school junior and a fan of Star Wars, is watching TOS for the first time and loving it, though she never expected she would. She's particularly fond of "The Menagerie."

So there's that.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Re: Haters, even you have to admit that:

yet another poster who must have seen a different movie than I.

yes, except losing his homeworld AND his mother, Spock has no reason to lose it.

For a Vulcan or even a half Vulcan, that wasn't a good enough reason. And banging Uhura had nothing to do with any of that but was out of line even for a half Vulcan. Guess she was handy when his seven year cycle came up.

how do YOU know? you a Vulcan or a half-Vulcan?

and how do you know he's "banging" Uhura? how do you know they're much further than the so-called first base?

I think her remark in the planetside shuttlebay about "oral talents" or whatever it was would pretty much confirm it.

Vulcans have pretty much been shown in Trek to not engage in casual affairs. Their sexual activities seem to be limited to Pon Farr and not really anything else.

 

[theFirebottle]

Re: Haters, even you have to admit that:

I think her remark in the planetside shuttlebay about "oral talents" or whatever it was would pretty much confirm it.

Vulcans have pretty much been shown in Trek to not engage in casual affairs. Their sexual activities seem to be limited to Pon Farr and not really anything else.

It was "aural sensitivity" and it was right in the middle of a discussion of her talent in xenolinguistics and communications. She has good hearing and used a technobabble phrase to say so.

Vulcans don't engage in casual affairs in Trek because Trek characters in general don't. In TOS, it was because of network censors. Later on, it was because the show was aimed at a general audience. ENT put bare bodies on screen but it never really said much about characters' sexual relationships because it's a family show.

 

[Omega_Glory]

uhh, that was kinda the point.

That was kinda the point of the film....to give the fleet flagship to an immature brat? Doesn't say much for Kirk's superiors.

the point was the bildungsroman... the growth of Kirk from a wounded brat with a genius streak to what he CAN hope to become.

by not getting that very obvious bit, you're only exposing yourself as not much more than an idiot.

The growth of Kirk to what he can hope to become, yes that is the point of the movie...the academy days of the crew. But at the end of the movie, he is in no way qualified to be commanding the flagship of the fleet. Yea he has academy simulations, computer games, and textbooks, but he has no experience to fall back on when the book learing pans out. Ya know...strange new worlds, new life, unkowns, ect. It requires experience to have an inkling of what to do when something comes up that the book doesn't cover.

The experience part is the most critical thing of all. You can get all the book learning you want, but once you put it to practice, book learning won't get you very far. As Captian of the Enterprise, he is going to encounter many, many unknowns with no experience to guide him as to the right decision. Kirk and crew from the TOS were experienced space veterans, yet they still only avoided disaster by the skin of their teeth on numerous occassions. This new crew of cadets just does not have the experience to survive very long. But they will survive of course, only because the writers of future movies will contrive the stories to that end.

But, to each his own I suppose. If you believe that cadets right out of the Academy should be commanding the most advanced ships of the fleet...more power to ya. Maybe they could give Chekov the Potempkin on his 18th birthday.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Re: Haters, even you have to admit that:

I think her remark in the planetside shuttlebay about "oral talents" or whatever it was would pretty much confirm it.

Vulcans have pretty much been shown in Trek to not engage in casual affairs. Their sexual activities seem to be limited to Pon Farr and not really anything else.

It was "aural sensitivity" and it was right in the middle of a discussion of her talent in xenolinguistics and communications. She has good hearing and used a technobabble phrase to say so.

Vulcans don't engage in casual affairs in Trek because Trek characters in general don't. In TOS, it was because of network censors. Later on, it was because the show was aimed at a general audience. ENT put bare bodies on screen but it never really said much about characters' sexual relationships because it's a family show.

The line seemed a bit off key rather than strictly refering to her job.

This new Trek "ain't your daddy's Trek" so why wouldn't they engage in causal affairs....NuKirk sure as shit does....he likes em' green.

 

[theFirebottle]

The growth of Kirk to what he can hope to become, yes that is the point of the movie...the academy days of the crew. But at the end of the movie, he is in no way qualified to be commanding the flagship of the fleet. Yea he has academy simulations, computer games, and textbooks, but he has no experience to fall back on when the book learing pans out. Ya know...strange new worlds, new life, unkowns, ect. It requires experience to have an inkling of what to do when something comes up that the book doesn't cover.

The experience part is the most critical thing of all. You can get all the book learning you want, but once you put it to practice, book learning won't get you very far. As Captian of the Enterprise, he is going to encounter many, many unknowns with no experience to guide him as to the right decision. Kirk and crew from the TOS were experienced space veterans, yet they still only avoided disaster by the skin of their teeth on numerous occassions. This new crew of cadets just does not have the experience to survive very long. But they will survive of course, only because the writers of future movies will contrive the stories to that end.

But, to each his own I suppose. If you believe that cadets right out of the Academy should be commanding the most advanced ships of the fleet...more power to ya. Maybe they could give Chekov the Potempkin on his 18th birthday.

This would all be a valid complaint if we were shown Kirk going off and being highly successful at running a ship. Instead, he's given command and we see... well, a teaser for Continuing Adventures.

Come back and complain when the sequel doesn't show any consequences of his inexperience. Until then, all we really know is that a) Kirk doesn't have the daily experience to run a starship and b) but Starfleet gave him one anyway. For all we know, the plot of the next film could hinge on his inexperience and youth being a problem.

Starfleet lost seven ships and their full crew complements. The loss of Vulcan has plunged them into perpetual and irreparable crisis. They were already desperate enough for people that they mobilized cadets during a crisis; now that they've lost so many people and so much equipment, they must surely be in disaster mode. A lot of people who probably thought they'd be having sedate research careers are probably now being shoved into action because they're the only people Starfleet has until they train up new batches of officers to replace their losses.

 

[Trekker4747]

Your argument works under the false assumption that I liked TCOTEOF which I did not...

And this is all I need to know.

Thank you.

 

[theFirebottle]

Re: Haters, even you have to admit that:

The line seemed a bit off key rather than strictly refering to her job.

This new Trek "ain't your daddy's Trek" so why wouldn't they engage in causal affairs....NuKirk sure as shit does....he likes em' green.

It's not the writer's fault if your mind lives in the gutter and you can't distinguish between homophones even in clear context...