Terminator: Salvation Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

[God Magnus]

SPOILERS
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I saw "Terminator Salvation" this past weekend and I'm glad I trusted my instincts and went during a matinee. If I had paid $14 for this, I think I might have not enjoyed it as much. Was it a great movie? Not at all - but it certainly had some really nice action pieces. It felt a lot like a set of action pieces strung together loosely. To be honest, I never really cared for most of the characters. Anton's performance as Reese was my absolute favorite, he was the bright spot in the movie acting-wise. It was kind of fun listening to Worthington's accent drop in and out.

As for the Terminators, I have to admit the mecha fan in me got giddy at the Harvester and the motorcycle Terminators coming out of its legs. I also have to admit the "Arnold" scenes were very well done. I especially liked the part where Connor punches him and his head turns with that "Arnie death stare". Using the Terminator music beats at that moment was also a nice touch and it was the only scene where my theater cheered.

 

[Tim]

I mean, think of the ramifications of the transporter being capable of doing such a thing? It just about makes starship travel obsolete. I guess it will need to be forgotten about, much like the telekinesis potions from Plato's Stepchildren. I just hate that kind of thing.

Yeah, that whole "transwarp beaming" thing was pure garbage. Nimoy was able to sell it to a certain degree, but even he could escape from that example of bad writing. Still, it wasn't as bad as Kirk's promotion from cadet to captain inside of a week. That was laughable.

I too enjoyed T:S somewhat more than Star Trek. The former was average, and the latter below average, for me.

Kirk wasn't actually just a Cadet. I read somewhere that the character had the rank of Lieutenant just like Spock was a full Commander.

Still, the whole notion of being promoted from lieutenant to captain in a few days stretches credibility in the extreme.

Their long distance beaming was established as possible in Star Trek TNG, but it was rarely used due to the power cost. It was in the episode where Picard's "son" was kidnapped by the Ferengi.

Between two stationary points or from a stationary point to a ship traveling at warp? What about "matching warp velocities for transport?"

 

[nx1701g]

^ It's been a while since I saw it but I do believe that Bok's ship was at Warp in the episode. I'll have to go find the DVDs.

 

[dkehler]

I mean, think of the ramifications of the transporter being capable of doing such a thing? It just about makes starship travel obsolete. I guess it will need to be forgotten about, much like the telekinesis potions from Plato's Stepchildren. I just hate that kind of thing.

It was "transwarp beaming" a rare thing that wasn't fleshed out yet. We could argue that Scotty didn't even achieve it until AFTER he was brought back on the Jenolan by the Enterprise-D because it was that complex that he spent a lifetime working on it. Spock happened to know how to achieve it earlier.

Or Scotty DID finish it but it was decided that the process was too risky -much like the experimental "folded-space transport" seen in TNG's "The High Ground" or the "subspace transporter" seen in "Blodlines." Both of which were deemed too risky for general use.

There.

Solved.

Bah! You would still think that it would AT THE VERY LEAST require state-of-the-art 24th century transporter equipment if I were to accept your explanation. Anyway, that was just one example of many. Just too many things that bugged me. Maybe it's because I had such high expectations for Star Trek and much lower expectations for Terminator Salvation.

 

[Tim]

^ It's been a while since I saw it but I do believe that Bok's ship was at Warp in the episode. I'll have to go find the DVDs.

It would be interesting to see if the screenwriters "got lucky" or actually did their homework.

However, the whole slowly-charging-superweapon trope used for Nero was boring and could be seen from a mile away; at least T:S gave us a bit of a twist with Marcus being an unwitting ally of Skynet.

 

[Trekker4747]

Bah! You would still think that it would AT THE VERY LEAST require state-of-the-art 24th century transporter equipment if I were to accept your explanation. Anyway, that was just one example of many. Just too many things that bugged me. Maybe it's because I had such high expectations for Star Trek and much lower expectations for Terminator Salvation.

Geordi, on board the USS Jenolan -which has been crashed on a Dyson Sphere for 75 years- after Scotty rants that the equipment on it is obsolete:

"I don't know about that. I was just thinking that many of these systems haven't changed much in the last seventy-five years. This transporter is basically the same system we use on the Enterprise."

Anything else?

 

[nx1701g]

Why did the Terminator discussion thread become a Trek XI discussion thread?

Not that I'm complaining, we've had activity again!

 

[Trekker4747]

Why did the Terminator discussion thread become a Trek XI discussion thread?

Not that I'm complaining, we've had activity again!

When somebody suggested that a giant walking robot not making any noise at all was somehow WORSE than fictional technology not working in a fictional way -even though it has NEVER worked consistantly.

 

[dkehler]

Bah! You would still think that it would AT THE VERY LEAST require state-of-the-art 24th century transporter equipment if I were to accept your explanation. Anyway, that was just one example of many. Just too many things that bugged me. Maybe it's because I had such high expectations for Star Trek and much lower expectations for Terminator Salvation.

Geordi, on board the USS Jenolan which has been crashed on a Dyson Sphere for 75 years after Scotty rants that the equipment on it is obsolete:

"I don't know about that. I was just thinking that many of these systems haven't changed much in the last seventy-five years. This transporter is basically the same system we use on the Enterprise."

Anything else?

Yeah:

The 25 year disappearance of Nero
The release by Nero of Spock
Spock kicking Kirk off the ship
Kirk being made Captain at the end...

 

[nx1701g]

^ 25 Years - Nero was at Rura Penthe (deleted scene, his rescue is what Uhura detected the transmissions from)
Release of Spock - He was sent there to die.
Spock kicking Kirk off Enterprise - Punishment to prevent him from causing further problems.
Captain in the end - Got me there.

 

[dkehler]

^ 25 Years - Nero was at Rura Penthe (deleted scene, his rescue is what Uhura detected the transmissions from)
Release of Spock - He was sent there to die.
Spock kicking Kirk off Enterprise - Punishment to prevent him from causing further problems.
Captain in the end - Got me there.

Rura Penthe, doesn't count because it wasn't in the movie. Even if it was, it's hard to imagine that they would somehow get back their ship. Anyway, it needed an in movie explanation.

Release of Spock - I would think that it would be more satisfying to actually witness the suffering that you waited 25 years to inflict. Nonsensical.

Spock kicking Kirk off Enterprise for punishment - nonsensical and out of character.

Capt. in the end - I guess another little flash forward four years was just too difficult.

 

[Trekker4747]

The 25 year disappearance of Nero

- Nothing 'in movie' but deleted scenes and the novel both say he was captured by Klingons and later escaped from Rura Penthe. Granted, this doesn't explain why the Klingons had his ship convienient parked in the Rura Penthe impound lot, but...

- The release by Nero of Spock

Nero's goal was to get back at Spock for allowing Romulous to die... or something. So he wanted Spock to see Vulcan die as Nero had seen Romulous die. (This was in the movie a pretty darn clearly spelled out.)

- Spock kicking Kirk off the ship

Kirk himself admited this was againat regulations in his communicator log entry. Spock likely kicked Kirk off the ship because he figured Kirk was proving more trouble than he was worth. Had he but him in the big, Spock likely figured that Kirk would simply escape and be back in his hair again. This is known as reading a character's motivations.

- Kirk being made Captain at the end.

A legit gripe that even I have. The movie should've just flashed-forward 5 years with Kirk relieving Pike and taking over as Captain. (Spock and the others would still serve under Pike. Spock himself admited many times in TOS to having no interest in command.)

Now, to keep this on topic:

Things in T:S that are stupider than things in ST09:

-Automobiles still work. Not only would they have required SOME maintenance in the intervening 10 years, but gasoline wouldn't be viable after that length of time of just sitting around in tanks. I doubt the refineries were still operating to refine crude oil. Gasoline turns into varnish after just sitting around for a few months.

-Jet planes still work: Not only would they require much more maintenance than an automobile but I suspect jet fuel would suffer the same problems as gasoline and further I always had the impression that all military craft were controlled -or able to be controlled- by Skynet.

-The various medical limitations in transplants. Not the least of which being blood type, needing a bypass machine, donor blood, and John and Marcus even being compatible. Further, I don't see any pharmacies around so how is John going to get anti-rejection medication?

-Performing a heart transplant, an open-chest, multiple-hour invasive surgery, under a tent in the middle of the desert with no apparent sterile practices employed. Oh sure, John may survive the transplant. Then he dies a week later from sepsis.

-Where was Marcus during the intervening years between opening scene and the rest of the movie.

-Catherine Brewster is just... there.

-Multi-story tall robots walking without any noise or impact tremor at all.

-Characters in an apocalyptic wasteland with perfect, white, teeth.

-Editing problems during the girl's attack.

-Advanced fighting and killing machines that can lock on to a target and make a firing solution in nanoseconds can't make hit worth shit.

-Terminators programed to kill John Connor just kind of toss him around rather than just snapping his neck when they've got a hold of him.

-John's CB radio broadcasts show an amazing range.

-The machines don't seem to even be aware of these broadcasts or able to trace them back to their source.

-Oh, we've got a nuclear submarine that's still working too. Post-apocalyptic wasteland but we've still got nuclear submarines and jets!

I could probably go on.

 

[Tim]

Release of Spock - I would think that it would be more satisfying to actually witness the suffering that you waited 25 years to inflict. Nonsensical.

Agreed. Nero was an incredibly weakly written one-dimensional character. He spent most of the film doing nothing more than being menacing much in the same way as Bale was angry in T:S.

 

[nx1701g]

Things in T:S that are stupider than things in ST09:

-Automobiles still work. Not only would they have required SOME maintenance in the intervening 10 years, but gasoline wouldn't be viable after that length of time of just sitting around in tanks. I doubt the refineries were still operating to regine crude oil. Gasoline turns into varnish after just sitting around for a few months.

Marcus did have to make repairs to the Jeep before it was used though. As for the Gas - yeah I got nothin. That wasn't entirely a TS issue though. We've seen cars being used in 2029 in the previous films.

-Jet planes still work: Not only would they require much more maintenace than an automobile but I suspect jet fuel would suffer the same problems as gasoline and further I always had the impression that all military craft were controled -or able to be controled- by Skynet.

The only things that Skynet could control were those military devices that had been implanted with a Skynet operating system. So long as the planes didn't have a modem they should be fine. I don't think in the new timeline that all stealth bombers and military facilities were upgraded with Cyberdyne Processors as in T2.

-The various medical limitations in transplants. Not the least of which being blood type, needing a bypass machine, donor blood, and John and Marcus even being compatable. Further, I don't see any pharmacies around so how is John going to get anti-rejection medication?

Agreed. I think that Marcus' heart wasn't a problem though because it was Skynet enhanced. The Resistance did have medical supplies and stores of medications though.

-Performing a heart transplant, an open-chest, multiple-hour invasice surgery, under a tent in the middle of the desert with no apparent sterile practices employed. Oh shure, John may survive the transplant. Then he dies a week later from sepsis.

Maybe the heart somehow gives Connor Skynet regenerative capabilities? I dunno there.

-Where was Marcus during the intervening years between opening scene and the rest of the movie.

Not yet operational. He was activated during the destruction of the Skynet VLA.

-Catherine Brewster is just... there.

Agreed.

-Multi-story tall robots walking without any noise or impact tremor at all.

Stealth mode

-Characters in an apocalyptic wasteland with perfect, white, teeth.

Skynet's scared of dentists and didn't hurt them.

-Advanced fighting and killing machines that can lock on to a target and make a firing solution in nanoseconds can't make hit worth shit.

I think all Terminators have that - provided its a main character.

-Terminators programed to kill John Connor just kind of toss him around rather than just snapping his neck when they've got a hold of him.

Skynet was playing with its new toy before killing it.

-John's CB radio broadcasts show an amazing range.

-The machines don't seem to even be aware of these broadcasts or able to trace them back to their source.

The transmissions were on an encrypted frequency that couldn't be traced.

-Oh, we've got a nuclear submarine that's still working too. Post-apocolyptic wasteland but we've still got nuclear submarines and jets!

We'd seen other nuclear subs before still in operation. The USS Jimmy Carter in TSCC.

 

[T'Baio]

To be honest, the transwarp beaming thing and the convenient placement of Old Spock were problems I had with Star Trek, as well...but the rest of the movie was so damn good I can overlook it.

T4 just had problem after problem on top of the fact very little of the film was done well on top of the fact when the movie ends nothing that happened mattered on top of the fact...

 

[Sephiroth]

the book says that John's broadcasts were being sent to a network of radio towers all across the country,and SKYnet had found and destroyed a few of them, in T2 it was stated that SKYnet only had controll of the stealth bombers (T2 the ride contradicts that saying that SKYnet also controled all aircraft and armor, not canon, just a BTW), and as for the heart transplant, because of Marcus' advanced healing factor, the heart itself could fight rejection and sepsis

 

[archeryguy1701]

-Where was Marcus during the intervening years between opening scene and the rest of the movie.

I can't say this with absolute certainty, but I think Marcus was one of the bodies in the lab... I think he was lying on a table, and he was the one who we got a close up of his face. It stands to reason that he somehow survived the blast and got activated afterwards.

 

[nx1701g]

^ I'll keep an eye out for him.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing Marcus lying unconscious/unactivated down in that lab, too. They went to a lot of trouble to point him out.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, I rescind that "complaint" as I had forgotten that detail when I made that post.

Everything else stands.

To be honest, the transwarp beaming thing and the convenient placement of Old Spock were problems I had with Star Trek, as well...but the rest of the movie was so damn good I can overlook it.

Luckily I explained it away using in-universe sceince.