I'll second the "Exactly".
I'll always give RTD credit for reviewing the show and making it successful. But he's certainly not above valid criticism when he tosses out a stinker.
I knew it!
- Thread starter StCoop
- Start date
I'll second the "Exactly".
I'll always give RTD credit for reviewing the show and making it successful. But he's certainly not above valid criticism when he tosses out a stinker.
You will, of course, be able to show me where I said any such thing. I was very careful in my choice of words.
Though of course that idea that popular and successful doesn't equal good is just as false an argument as claiming it does.
What has that got to do with anything?
But of course.
You may not have said "best," but if you're going to tell me that you didn't mean to at the least imply that "most popular and successful" equated to "high quality," particularly given your often fervent defense of Davies' writing on this board, then I'm not sure we have much to talk about, because you're making a rather textbook argumentum ad populum.
If I meant best I'd have said best. I deliberately didn't because I'm well aware there are people like you out there who'd seize on it to make the same tired old non-arguments.
Then what was your point, exactly, in trotting out charts and numbers and "who gives a shit about Hugos" when someone made the comment that he wasn't sure about Davies writing a potential movie, because he didn't think he had it in him? Was it not to say, "Well, Davies wrote all of these wildly popular episodes that everyone -- outside of some 'tards on the Internet -- loved, so why can't he write a movie?"
You call my statements "tired old non-arguments." I say you should work on your Pavlovian reaction whenever someone starts leveling cannons at Russell T. Davies' work.
I'm not in favor of a Doctor Who movie, because I feel the format works best in television and paring down the elements to make it accessible to a general film audience might mean losing some of what I enjoy about it. Particularly if the goal is to make a film for international release, when Doctor Who's international appeal is currently more selective.
Having said that, a well-done movie could be the tool to expand Doctor Who's popularity internationally, which is no doubt what the BBC has in mind. If they are going to make a movie, I think StCoop's point about RTD's track record in creating Doctor Who stories with mass appeal is well made (at least, as far as British audiences are concerned). Certainly, if they're going to use someone who has a past history with the show, he's got the best resume for this type of project.
Unfortunately, RTD's track record doesn't extend to film, nor to any great extent beyond the borders of the UK. In the US, the largest market for a film release, Doctor Who is still fairly unknown to the general public. SciFi's airings get decent ratings by their standards, but the average person in the street either has never heard of the show, or has a vague notion of some curly haired guy with a scarf. Even RTD hasn't cracked this market yet, so the question of how succesful he can be with a film is still open.
Having said that, a well-done movie could be the tool to expand Doctor Who's popularity internationally, which is no doubt what the BBC has in mind. If they are going to make a movie, I think StCoop's point about RTD's track record in creating Doctor Who stories with mass appeal is well made (at least, as far as British audiences are concerned). Certainly, if they're going to use someone who has a past history with the show, he's got the best resume for this type of project.
Unfortunately, RTD's track record doesn't extend to film, nor to any great extent beyond the borders of the UK. In the US, the largest market for a film release, Doctor Who is still fairly unknown to the general public. SciFi's airings get decent ratings by their standards, but the average person in the street either has never heard of the show, or has a vague notion of some curly haired guy with a scarf. Even RTD hasn't cracked this market yet, so the question of how succesful he can be with a film is still open.
That's not what I said. I said all of the most popular episodes of the series have all been written by him. And you'll be amazed to discover I don't walk around with the complete list on me at all times. You're free to look the figures up for yourself and prove me wrong though.
Let me start you off. Here's the Chart Positions list.
Top 5 New Series episodes - RTD (Only Moffat entry down the bottom.)
And here's the S4 Ratings/AI breakdown.
Most watched episodes - RTD
Highest AI - RTD
Ok well I asked for facts and there you go...or do you?
Yes the highest rated episodes were RTDs -though not all of them which kinda disproves the point you made:
That clearly seems to be implying that all of RTD's episodes are the most popular...and clearly they're not; ie Unicorn and the Wasp, more viewers than Turn Left. Moffat's two parter, better AI than Turn Left.
But you can't deny that it's RTD episodes that have the highest number of viewers and the highest AI score...except...
Ever notice that, since season 2, pretty much every RTD episode comes either at the begining or the end of the season? Seems fair to say that viewing figures are always going to be higher at the start and end of a season-people get excited about the show coming back and make an effort the first few weeks before slipping, then they get excited again when the finale comes up...same with the AI figure of 91 for the finale. Yup, that's right, people loved the episodes where the most budget was spent, where the daleks and Davros and Rose and Martha and every bugger else in the universe turned up...
Let's see how Moffat season openers, Moffat finales and Moffat Christmas specials do before we can really compare. At the moment RTD's written something like 28 eps of Who to Moffat's 6 (heck who else has even come close) the law of averages suggest that RTD's episodes are going to be popular, hell he writes a quarter of every season!
I suppose that is the question - to whom are they trying to appeal? A Doctor Who movie will probably be a big hit in the UK, and maybe Canada, Australia, New Zealand, but none of these are massive markets. If the aim is to try and crack America, I'm not sure that BBC WW have the resources. The budget will only be a fraction of that of the new Star Trek film, and it won't look anything like as slick or impressive. They'd need a big studio to throw their weight behind it, with all the promotion necessary. I still doubt it will work, because Doctor Who is such a quintessentially British show, and only appeals to a niche market in the USA.
Well the question is how succesful does it have to be in the US? If the budget is a fraction of Trek's then, by the same token, the profit needed to break even is proportionately less as well. I could see this being more of a Serenity than a Star Trek. If it's a hit in the US, and this does happen it could be a sleeper that comes from nowhere via word of mouth, then brilliant! But if it doesn't, likely the margins will be such that just being popular in the commonwealth countries would be enough to mark it down as a success.
I just wonder about the story since RTD has kinda done epic to death, and aside from maybe Midnight it has felt a little like he's visited the well a few too many times (which I think would happen to any writer who's done as many episodes as he has). Then again he will be able to give this story his entire focus, and hopefully have the time to polish it to perfection, and when he's good RTD is very good, and frankly even when he's bad he's mostly only dissapointing rather than terrible.
I just wonder about the story since RTD has kinda done epic to death, and aside from maybe Midnight it has felt a little like he's visited the well a few too many times (which I think would happen to any writer who's done as many episodes as he has). Then again he will be able to give this story his entire focus, and hopefully have the time to polish it to perfection, and when he's good RTD is very good, and frankly even when he's bad he's mostly only dissapointing rather than terrible.
OK i have to ask...whats with the J. Edgar Hoover stuff...what I'm i missing.
God i hope its not another "Who's on first base " type thing, that went completely over my head in the Humour cap competition.
Oh and RTD for the word.
That's right. They don't want the truth to come out.
He used to spend his summers there, living as a woman, for many years.
