Action hero Picard and the decline of the TNG movies.

[Docbrown777]

One of the key things that I think started ruining the TNG movies was the concept of "Action Hero Picard!!!" In every single movie Picard found himself fighting it out face to face in a physical confrontation with the bad guy.

Now the first few times it was not written that bad and how he got in such a position is semi believable.

Generations: Ok, somewhat believable. Picard would exchange himself so he could meet the bad guy and either fight or try and talk him out of it. If Picard hadn't done this then they might have never even found Soran. Plus we had to isolate Picard so he could meet up with Kirk etc etc. All of this was somewhat understandable. Also, this action hero Picard moment wasn't as bothersome because it was the first time around.

Note: in the previous 6 movies there had only been one with an Action Hero Kirk. This being The Search for Spock where Kirk fights it out with the Klingon on the planet surface. Of all the previous movies only once did Kirk meet the badguy face to face for a fistfight. In TMP, he (and the crew) meet V'ger but no one starts fighting, TWOK they are never even in the same room, TVH Kirk did some heroic swimming but no fighting, TFF Kirk really couldn't fight God hand to hand so he had to run for it until Spock rescued him, TUC the Federation crews and the Klingons fought it out in a space battle as one team against the other. Kirk leaped to protect the prez at the very end but still did not get in a face to face physical fight with the badguy. 1 time out of 6 movies.

First Contact: Now we come to this movie. Again I will actually agree that this made sense. Picard had ordered the ship abandoned and he decided to go by himself to save Data if possible. Maybe he could have asked some people to help him but Picard went by himself cause the ship was going to blow up anyways and he knew his chances of success were slim anyways. Fair enough.

Insurrection: Now I really start to have problems. This was the third movie in a row where this ending took place! "Oh look, Picard just so happens to be put in a position where he will be the sole person to beam over to the enemy ship and try to shut it down!" Not just that but the one head bad guy just so happens to be there to!! Time to climb around and fight it out action movie style! Well, at least it isn't like Picard outright abandoned his ship because the Enterprise was under Riker's command trying to get outside the nebula to get a message out.

Nemisis: They didn't even try to disguse this one! Picard pretty much gets out of his chair, opens a weapons locker, grabs a rifle and says, "I'm going over there by myself!" Data trys to stop him but by now the crew is so used to it that all it takes is Geordi looking at Data and saying, "no" and no one puts up another protest about how the freaking captain of the ship has decided to singlehandedly abandon his ship and go over to fight the captain and crew of the other ship in hand to hand combate. "Sounds like a great idea Captain! The Enterprise is in bad shape and the XO is already in a hand to hand fight on the lower decks. We don't need you! Good luck!" (I'm not going to even mention how the transporters just magically go offline right after Picard leaves) Looks like the captain is on his own once again!


All of this is funny because we think of Kirk as the fist fight captain but that just isn't so. Out of the original six movies he only fought the villan face to face once! Also, we need to give credit to the writers of the first six movies because they wrote them in such a way that many times there was not a single evil badguy that you could fight face to face and when there was it sometimes was not the most important part of the plot. TSFS being an example. The main plot was saving Spock and not fighting a Klingon to the death.


Now, how does the new movie stack up to these observations? I think it did very well. Spock and Kirk go to Nero's ship but they are not going over there with the goal of fighting Nero to the death. Their mission is to steal the red matter, save Pike and shut down the drill. Once they accomplish this they are beamed back to the Enterprise. Kirk runs into Nero and fights him some but then Nero leaves and Kirk has to fight it out with the 2nd in command Romulan. All of this gives us some good action while avoiding falling into the trap of the last four movies.

 

[I am not Spock]

It bothered me because it was so inconsistent with the Picard of the series. When did Picard suddenly become John McClane from Die Hard? The only series episode I can recall which features 'action hero' Picard is 'Starship Mine'.

 

[DarKush]

I think they made Picard such a punk in GEN, which was out of character, squealing when Soran was beating him up, perhaps to assuage William Shatner and to highlight Kirk's badassness, that Patrick Stewart made sure the writers established as a badass in the rest of the films, which was also out of character.

On TNG, Picard could handle himself well, but only as a last resort. Action Hero Picard and the Picard-Data duo were two of the problems with the TNG movies. Not the only problem, but a major one. Being an action stud also helped prevent Picard from forming a relationship with Beverly IMO because they needed him to have a new potential relationship for each movie. I would've been far more interested to see Picard get with Beverly after his experience in the Nexus than the cheek peck with Lily Sloan or the one-shot romance with Anij. Picard and Crusher had history. It would've been nice to watch those two grow and develop as a couple onscreen.

 

[Too Much Fun]

You forget that Kirk also fought 'himself' in "The Undiscovered Country" after kissing the person he ended up fighting earlier, which "must have been his lifelong ambition" .

 

[Mr. B]

I'd agree that the plot situations were a lot more 'plausible' in GEN and FC than the latter two, but the idea of Picard getting his hands dirty never bothered me. The episode "Tapestry" revealed that he wasn't above bar brawls in his academy days although he mellowed in later years... but not too much to stop him from kicking ass in "Starship Mine."

 

[GalaxyX]

My problem wasn't so much the "action" portion of the character. As previously mentioned, Picard could stand his own ground when he needed to.

The problem began when Picard was "pussyfied" in Generations, where he can't even pick a fight with an another old geezer, and has to have Kirk come and save his ass.

Then we are expected to believe in FC that Picard is now capable of fighting Borg drones hand to hand AND that he is capable of losing his emotional control. If they wanted to they could have worked it into the movie somehow. A throwaway line. A scene at the beginning where he's training himself in the holodeck. Something. As it stands we're supposed to believe he went to sissy man whou couldn't fight an old geezer on his own, to action hero gunning down Borg drones single handedly.

Ahhh.... no.

 

[Jeyl]

This reviewer actually does a pretty nice job at describing these elements.

It's the "Tale of Two Picards" portion at 1:46. Also, the entire review is quite good as well.

 

[Xerxes1979]

This reviewer actually does a pretty nice job at describing these elements.

It's the "Tale of Two Picards" portion at 1:46. Also, the entire review is quite good as well.

That is awesome. I can't really disagree with anything raised in that review. I think I am going to watch his Generations review.

 

[Kirby]

Wasn't FC initially written to have Riker fight the Borg on the Enterprise and have Picard work with Cochran and the Phoenix? That would have made much more sense. Picard did have a past history of brawling, but he's outgrown that. Those movies would have been much better if Riker, Worf, Data, or some new guy would have done the action stuff and they just let Picard be the Captain.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

That would've been good.

 

[DarKush]

Wasn't FC initially written to have Riker fight the Borg on the Enterprise and have Picard work with Cochran and the Phoenix? That would have made much more sense. Picard did have a past history of brawling, but he's outgrown that. Those movies would have been much better if Riker, Worf, Data, or some new guy would have done the action stuff and they just let Picard be the Captain.

For me, I think Sisko would've been a better fit for fighting the Borg on the ship than either Picard or Riker. But I liked having Picard onboard with the Borg because it was more personal to him.

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, the producers came to the conclusion that the TNG formula of an ensemble cast just didn't translate to the movies. Picard had to channel Kirk, Data had to channel Spock even more than ever, and Riker had to hold down the fort aboard the Enterprise while Picard and Data went off to do their thing...

LaForge was needed to spout technobabble
Worf was needed to beat up people and look menacing
Troi was needed to occasionally pilot the ship when the helmsmen was inevitably killed during the space battles
Crusher wasn't really needed at all...

 

[Whoa Nellie]

For some reason on this board Kirk is seen as the action hero and Picard as the erudite. However, in canon Kirk and Picard contain both of these aspects to their character. We're told Kirk started out as the erudite "stack of book with legs" becoming the more hell bent for leather captain. Picard started out as the hell bent for leather ensign becoming the more erudite captain.

With Picard, TNG canon has given us a rich, multi-faceted character; one who reads ancient Greek and Latin classics and Shakespeare as well as hard-boiled detective novels. He plays the flute as well as rides horses, fences, and does a little rock climbing. He drinks tea as well as Aldebaran whiskey. He is a diplomat who appears to have a certain degree of special ops training. The erudite who easily rises to the role of action hero when necessary. Like the TOS episode "The Enemy Within" did for Kirk's character, TNG's episode "Tapestry" does a beautiful job of showing that it takes both the erudite and well as the "Hell bent for leather" ensign who was stabbed through the heart in a barroom brawl facets to make Picard the flagship captain.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[GalaxyX]

Generations is the Black Sheep here.

If they had shown Picard to be able to hold himself in a fight (as several episodes hinted at) then the rest of the movies would have been more believable.

 

[Ziz]

When did Picard suddenly become John McClane from Die Hard?

Jean-LucClane?

 

[Bones2]

Well, Soran had probably been through a lot, I imagine it's more a case of how well he could handle himself.

Or maybe Picard put in a lot of training while he was waiting for the E-E to be built.

 

[Brady]

Especially confounding is how 60 year old Picard is able to hold his own in a fight with a prime-aged clone of himself who grew up in a Romulan slave camp, a kobayashi maru, if there ever was one. But Picard doesn't use his superior starfleet training or his superior sense of moral to outwit his opponent, no, he pulls a stick from the wall and Shinzon gleefully impales himself on it. What the hell were they thinking?

As for First Contact, I feel it has to be Picard on the Enterprise. It is no wonder that he loses his emotional control. It is out of character, but people in real life do things out of character if the situation is right. The Picard/Worf scene on the bridge and the following scene with Lily in the ready room were two of the most powerful moments in all of Trek history, in my opinion.

 

[arch101]

Whenever actors, even good ones like Spiner and Stewart, begin assuming writing or producing credits as part of their deals, look out! It rarely ever works out. It didn't in the TNG films.

 

[GalaxyX]

As for First Contact, I feel it has to be Picard on the Enterprise. It is no wonder that he loses his emotional control. It is out of character, but people in real life do things out of character if the situation is right. The Picard/Worf scene on the bridge and the following scene with Lily in the ready room were two of the most powerful moments in all of Trek history, in my opinion.

While I liked the scene, I think it was a bit out of character for Picard. I think it would have been more easily sold if Picard had shown some sorrow along with his anger. Sorrow at being reminded of the torture he went thru being turned into a drone.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Star Trek franchise and sci-fi vs action sci-fi

most people who say they don't like "Sci Fi" really mean they don't like idea-driven stories.

http://m.whedonesque.com/comments/12958#171070

Though there seems to be more interest in idea-driven science fiction films in the twenty-first century, such as the first Matrix installment, most fans of the genre would agree that since the 1990s the most provocative sci-fi narratives have emerged not in theaters but on television in series such as Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987–1994), Babylon 5 (1993–1999), and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993–1999).

http://www.filmreference.com/encycl...-Fiction-SCIENCE-FICTION-GOES-BIG-BUDGET.html

When you drop idea-driven science fiction you sell more tickets as what is on the screen becomes more about action. How does this translate to business? Even in a small market Spanish-subtitle theater with the English language track of a film like Star Trek: First Contact orStar Trek: Nemesis they were PG-13 films for action.
I've mentioned before in a discussion about 'Why there no pure Sci-Fi on TV today' that the last real science-fiction film I saw was about 5 years ago.
It's too bad the Trek franchise cannot continue Roddenberry's idea of a world he created where

humans largely overcame many Earth-bound frailties and vices by the middle of the 22nd century, creating a quasi-utopian society where the central role is played not by money, but rather by the need for exploration and knowledge.

as per Wikipedia on the Trek conception.

That sure sounds like idea-driven and not action.
Where exactly did the Trek franchise switchover?
imdb.com has Star Trek First Contact listed as
'Genre:Action | Adventure | Sci-Fi | Thriller'
but so are STII, STIII, STV, VI, & Generations and all since.

Hell there is even a thread titled 'Is 'Star Trek' science fiction?'
this week in the STXI forum...

the Voyager series was still exploring scientific things at least...