Size Of The New Enterprise (large images)

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

I don't think of it in terms of Trek's (entirely fictional) technology. You decide what kind of ship you want, what makes sense for you based on various criteria, then you make up the technology to suit it.

Ain't that the truth.

But then again, this isn't exactly a complete reboot, is it?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

I don't think of it in terms of Trek's (entirely fictional) technology. You decide what kind of ship you want, what makes sense for you based on various criteria, then you make up the technology to suit it.

Ain't that the truth.

But then again, this isn't exactly a complete reboot, is it?

No, but what that means in practice is that what stays the same and what changes is completely malleable and up to the preferences - even the whims - of the folks making it. So any reasoning or conclusions that are based on the assumption of consistency with previous versions of Trek are provisional at best until at least specifically referenced in JJTrek.

So oddly enough after all the pointless arguments about whether this movie would fit into the "canon," the essential situation is that nothing which has come before can be treated as canonical to JJTrek until it appears in JJTrek.

 

[Mangledduk]

I am definitely one of those people who is not a big fan of the upscaling. I can live a little easier with the ship maybe being 2000 feet (609m) but Id prefer it to be anywhere from 300 to 400 something meters. I hate the idea of it being longer than a Galaxy and a Sovereign class (725m figure). I think there are some pretty good arguments for it to be a number of different sizes. Id like to see someone try and figure out how big it is based on this shot from the original teaser. I drew crappy arrows pointing out the people in the shot compared to the exterior of the bridge and saucer...Unfortunately, it looks like it really might be scaled up considerably in some shots.

 

[Gepard]

The amazing, huge, upscaled numbers are what people were coming up with back when the teaser first came out. 4-5 decks on the saucer rim and such.

Then there were the other people saying things like, "Yes, but just because it's huge and being built on the ground in the teaser doesn't mean it'll be that way in the movie. It's just a metaphor!"

I wonder if those were the same people who said the pop music in the first Enterprise ads portended nothing about the opening theme. Good times.

 

[urbandk]

I wish they had used the original Rod Stewart version.

 

[Gepard]

I wish they had used the original Rod Stewart version.

So do I. When news of the theme choice first leaked, I found a copy of the song and actually quite liked it. Then we got that rerecorded...version, and...yeah.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I am definitely one of those people who is not a big fan of the upscaling. I can live a little easier with the ship maybe being 2000 feet (609m) but Id prefer it to be anywhere from 300 to 400 something meters. I hate the idea of it being longer than a Galaxy and a Sovereign class (725m figure). I think there are some pretty good arguments for it to be a number of different sizes. Id like to see someone try and figure out how big it is based on this shot from the original teaser. I drew crappy arrows pointing out the people in the shot compared to the exterior of the bridge and saucer...Unfortunately, it looks like it really might be scaled up considerably in some shots.

As far as I can remember, I was the first one around here to spot just how big the ship was. I had large, hi-def screencaps from the teaser and did a contrast enhance. You could see the internal structures of the decks through the rim opening, showing at least 2 normal height decks and one double height deck plus some crawlspace areas.

That argues AGAINST the idea that there was a last minute "rescaling".

 

[jswhitten]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

the time line changes dont explain this and a sudden jump in the size of ship building doesnt add up.

Don't they? In 2233, the Federation hadn't heard anything from the Romulans in 70 years. Suddenly one of their starships is attacked by a huge Romulan ship with technology far in advance of their own. They don't know at this point that it's a single ship from the future--all they know is that the Romulans are still hostile and apparently have ships that Starfleet's ships are no match for.

So what do they do? They redesign the upcoming Constitution class heavy cruisers with more weapons, stronger shields. For that they need to scale up the entire ship, and the extra time required to redesign and build the larger Constitution class ships delays their launch by a little over a decade.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

the time line changes dont explain this and a sudden jump in the size of ship building doesnt add up.

Don't they? In 2233, the Federation hadn't heard anything from the Romulans in 70 years. Suddenly one of their starships is attacked by a huge Romulan ship with technology far in advance of their own. They don't know at this point that it's a single ship from the future--all they know is that the Romulans are still hostile and apparently have ships that Starfleet's ships are no match for.

So what do they do? They redesign the upcoming Constitution class heavy cruisers with more weapons, stronger shields. For that they need to scale up the entire ship, and the extra time required to redesign and build the larger Constitution class ships delays their launch by a little over a decade.

I'm a big fan of this explanation.

 

[TheGodBen]

The amazing, huge, upscaled numbers are what people were coming up with back when the teaser first came out. 4-5 decks on the saucer rim and such.

Then there were the other people saying things like, "Yes, but just because it's huge and being built on the ground in the teaser doesn't mean it'll be that way in the movie. It's just a metaphor!"

I wonder if those were the same people who said the pop music in the first Enterprise ads portended nothing about the opening theme. Good times.

I had a major case of deja-vu while reading this post. I'm not joking or being snarky, I honestly had a really strong feeling that I had read it before even though I know I haven't and I just felt like pointing that out.

Please proceed.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

I'll tell you, apropos of nothing, that I hate this upscaling - just hate it. Yeah, I'm nitpicky enough that it diminishes my interest in the design quite a bit, for a variety of reasons.

That said, it is what it is and Bernd insisting that it's not going to be so on his website just because he doesn't like it is really beyond silly.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. My analysis had nothing to do with justifying a certain length but all the more with looking what actually seems to fit best. Only by chance does it seems to be in the larger scale which I preferred. If the smaller scale would pan out better, I would have presented that.

Well, nothing I said was intended to impugn your analysis which I thought was entirely persuasive.

Agree completely... your analysis was much more persuasive than mine, DiSiLLUSiON.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Then there were the other people saying things like, "Yes, but just because it's huge and being built on the ground in the teaser doesn't mean it'll be that way in the movie. It's just a metaphor!"

Remember when we all thought, "Oh well, at least it's still being built in San Francisco." HA!

 

[Guartho]

Intelligence reports Federation now using Klingon designers.

 

[Gepard]

Remember when we all thought, "Oh well, at least it's still being built in San Francisco." HA!

Not even that, tough. Remember how Kirk on the motorcycle cause cries of "it's being built in Iowa!" And the reasonable response was "look, it's a trailer. We have no idea if he's in Iowa or not when he's on the bike. Maybe he's just about to enlist and he's in San Francisco." Which we was, but not in SanFran.

You know what? I'm getting sick of the naysayers being right.

 

[Longinus]

You know what? I'm getting sick of the naysayers being right.

Oh, I also remember when concern was expressed that Kirk would go straight from a cadet to captain, and naysayers were told to have a little faith to the film makers, and that they would not do anything so stupid...

 

[Psion]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

the time line changes dont explain this and a sudden jump in the size of ship building doesnt add up.

Don't they? In 2233, the Federation hadn't heard anything from the Romulans in 70 years. Suddenly one of their starships is attacked by a huge Romulan ship with technology far in advance of their own. They don't know at this point that it's a single ship from the future--all they know is that the Romulans are still hostile and apparently have ships that Starfleet's ships are no match for.

So what do they do? They redesign the upcoming Constitution class heavy cruisers with more weapons, stronger shields. For that they need to scale up the entire ship, and the extra time required to redesign and build the larger Constitution class ships delays their launch by a little over a decade.

This deserves a blue thumb award.

 

[Guartho]

Perhaps some upstart Admiral had the brain-child of scrapping the about-to-be-built designs in favor of seriously upscaling all new ships. Newly promoted Admiral Robau talked the Admiralty out of it in the original timeline.

 

[Squiggy]

Because why have bigger ships when you have one Robau?

 

[Omega_Glory]

When did they say the Constitution ships were delayed for a decade? Did I miss that in the film?

I did a little figuring; see what ya think:

For a 3000' ship:
The saucer width would be 1311'.
The viewscreen would be ~35 feet wide.
The oblong windows in the saucer would be 15.9' x 5.8'.
The portholes in the saucer would be 5.8' in diameter.
The secondary hull docking port would be 15.1' in diameter.

For a 2378' (725 meter) ship:
The saucer width would be 1039'.
The viewscreen would be ~29 feet wide.
The oblong windows in the saucer would be 13.2' x 4.8'.
The portholes in the saucer would be 4.8' in diameter.
The secondary hull docking port would be 12' in diameter.

For a 1597' (487 meters) ship:
The saucer width would be 697'.
The viewscreen would be ~18.5 feet wide.
The oblong windows in the saucer would be 8.5' x 3'.
The portholes in the saucer would be 3' in diameter.
The secondary hull docking port would be 8' in diameter.

For a 987' (301m) ship:
The saucer width would be 431'.
The viewscreen would be ~11.5 feet wide.
The oblong windows in the saucer would be 62" x 23".
The portholes in the saucer would be 23" in diameter.
The secondary hull docking port would be 5' in diameter.

Strangely enough, if one assumes the 301 meter length, the measurements are extremely close to TMP Enterprise.
TMP Enterprise: 304 meters long.
The saucer width would be 465'.
The oblong windows in the saucer would be 57" x 25.5".
The portholes in the saucer would be 25.5" in diameter.
The docking port would be 5.3' in diameter.

The problem with the ship being much more than ~300 meters is that the bridge winds up being massively larger than it is. The viewscreen is about 136 inches (11.3 feet) which corresponds to a 301 meter ship since the viewscreen is really a window on the front of the saucer and it's size is easily compared to the width of the saucer. If the ship were 725 meters as ILM says, then the bridge would need to be sixty or seventy feet wide....it ain't. Even if the shuttlebay is larger than a 300 meter ship can carry, the bridge is the primary set for a Star Trek ship...it has to fit the model.

 

[Praetor]

the time line changes dont explain this and a sudden jump in the size of ship building doesnt add up.

Don't they? In 2233, the Federation hadn't heard anything from the Romulans in 70 years. Suddenly one of their starships is attacked by a huge Romulan ship with technology far in advance of their own. They don't know at this point that it's a single ship from the future--all they know is that the Romulans are still hostile and apparently have ships that Starfleet's ships are no match for.

So what do they do? They redesign the upcoming Constitution class heavy cruisers with more weapons, stronger shields. For that they need to scale up the entire ship, and the extra time required to redesign and build the larger Constitution class ships delays their launch by a little over a decade.

I'm a big fan of this explanation.

As am I.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. My analysis had nothing to do with justifying a certain length but all the more with looking what actually seems to fit best. Only by chance does it seems to be in the larger scale which I preferred. If the smaller scale would pan out better, I would have presented that.

Well, nothing I said was intended to impugn your analysis which I thought was entirely persuasive.

Agree completely... your analysis was much more persuasive than mine, DiSiLLUSiON.

Ditto that - it's a perfect analysis. I just wish it weren't so dang big.

Intelligence reports Federation now using Klingon designers.

So we have precedent, then.

Because why have bigger ships when you have one Robau?

Exactly. When they lost him, they had to compensate by upscaling the ships!