'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XI
- Thread starter Dusty Ayres
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Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
Well here's a question...do many women consider the simple fact men want to see women in miniskirts (or underwear) chauvinistic?
I still want to know why the original author did not mention Kirk was undressed as well. Universal sufferage right? Seems equitable to me.
RAMA
Well here's a question...do many women consider the simple fact men want to see women in miniskirts (or underwear) chauvinistic?
I still want to know why the original author did not mention Kirk was undressed as well. Universal sufferage right? Seems equitable to me.
RAMA
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
I'll happily leave the subject of grammar if everyone else agrees to.
I'll also happily discuss the subject Dusty raised in the first place, which is feminist criticism of Uhura's role in Star Trek. I believe that criticism is unfounded and have given several examples why I believe that is the case.
The article totally misrepresents the portrayal of Uhura both in this film and in the original series. It is also degrading and insulting to Uhura as a character and to Zoe Saldana and Nichelle Nichols as actresses and as women. I believe that if anyone was to read through my posts in this thread on that subject they would see that I have made my case very well.
I'll happily leave the subject of grammar if everyone else agrees to.
I'll also happily discuss the subject Dusty raised in the first place, which is feminist criticism of Uhura's role in Star Trek. I believe that criticism is unfounded and have given several examples why I believe that is the case.
The article totally misrepresents the portrayal of Uhura both in this film and in the original series. It is also degrading and insulting to Uhura as a character and to Zoe Saldana and Nichelle Nichols as actresses and as women. I believe that if anyone was to read through my posts in this thread on that subject they would see that I have made my case very well.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
I hope so. Masculism 101 - Female on male rape is still rape.
I hope so. Masculism 101 - Female on male rape is still rape.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
Trekker you like any girl who's breathing.
RAMA
Trekker you like any girl who's breathing.
RAMA
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
Interestingly, a lot of feminists make a big deal about that too. In a lot of ways sexually assaulted men face a lot of adversity that women do not - there just isn't as much of a support system for sexually assaulted men. Plus often complaints of rape by men are taken even less seriously than women. It's quite tragic, actually.
Interestingly, a lot of feminists make a big deal about that too. In a lot of ways sexually assaulted men face a lot of adversity that women do not - there just isn't as much of a support system for sexually assaulted men. Plus often complaints of rape by men are taken even less seriously than women. It's quite tragic, actually.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
You say it like there's something wrong with that.
You say it like there's something wrong with that.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
They were indeed. They could be plausible scenes if done correctly - but when Kira fights is always a case of the other guy just standing waiting to be hit. Someone the smaller she got, the less resistance she got which is ridiculous considering she didn't have any special fighting skills. Possibly a director issue...
With Uhura... she's also tiny. I know a girl shorter and thinner than her, she's an incredible fighter, one of my company's most outstanding students. But theres no way in hell she could stop a fight with the likes of Cupcake. If she did it'd look as ridiculous as Kira did.
Regardless of the responses... kilts are hot. Or so I'm told (which is why I own a few).
Blame Stargate
According to that show archeologists make good soldiers 
They were indeed. They could be plausible scenes if done correctly - but when Kira fights is always a case of the other guy just standing waiting to be hit. Someone the smaller she got, the less resistance she got which is ridiculous considering she didn't have any special fighting skills. Possibly a director issue...
With Uhura... she's also tiny. I know a girl shorter and thinner than her, she's an incredible fighter, one of my company's most outstanding students. But theres no way in hell she could stop a fight with the likes of Cupcake. If she did it'd look as ridiculous as Kira did.
Regardless of the responses... kilts are hot. Or so I'm told (which is why I own a few).
I'm a linguist myself and I have to say... no linguist, male OR female, would be diving into that bar fight. Have I missed some new media convention out there of inaccurately portraying linguists as badasses? Because we're really not.
Blame Stargate
According to that show archeologists make good soldiers
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
I can and will make that comparison. In fact, ethnic minority men do even worse at custody hearings.
As I said, I am happy to leave the issue of spelling and grammar alone.
I can and will make that comparison. In fact, ethnic minority men do even worse at custody hearings.
As I said, I am happy to leave the issue of spelling and grammar alone.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
I agree. A lot of people make the mistake of arguing that it's easier for a man to get out of such a situation then it is for a woman. However, not every man is buffed and not every woman isn't badass.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
My grandmother once told me the same thing. Doesn't mean I'm taking her word for it.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
And not every man is assaulted by a woman.
And not every man is assaulted by a woman.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
You know what...you're right..I like to pretend that I'm above that and I don't judge looks...but I do and I need to just cut the crap and fully admit that I'm shallow...just like everybody else !
I hope you didn't feel too attracted to my girlfriend?
No Papi...I don't swing that way. No offense to any gays...you know I love you and got your back.
Some men like big women...I know you're out there...I'm sure you won't admit to it on this board, but I guarantee there are plenty of chubby chasers abound....plus I know after a few drinks..standards do get lowered..ok let me stop...but beauty does come in all shapes and sizes....we need to subsribe to that mode of thinking more often. I know attraction is key...believe me I'm guilty of it too...but I wish it wasn't that way.
I agree entirely. Physical attraction totally plays a key role, and that's completely okay. We need to 1. stop pretending that's not the case, and 2. stop criticizing people for what type of figure they are attracted to.
You know what...you're right..I like to pretend that I'm above that and I don't judge looks...but I do and I need to just cut the crap and fully admit that I'm shallow...just like everybody else
! Okay, got it, joke wasn't funny.
This is the one time I wasn't making a joke!
I don't...I consider it natural...just as we like to see you men scantilly clad (although to a much lesser degree...men are more "visual" creatures).
Thanks guys! I'm sure once you get to know me you'll change your opinion!
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
Indeed.
By the way, I'm not being serious about the Kirk/Gaila thing. They're just showing Kirk in character. I'm just pointing out that, as the article has done, it's possible to find things to be offended about, no matter what your sensibilities are, in anything if you try hard enough.
I mean, let's see - there's McCoy too. Why does he have to run away to Starfleet just because he got divorced ? Should I assume that the adversarial, destructive, fault-based divorce system still exists in the 23rd Century ? That's another masculinist issue right there.
As for Kirk, actually, one thing I always say when people object to content in Star Trek is that you shouldn't judge the character's 23rd or 24th century behaviour by 21st century standards, just as we would not like someone judging our behaviour by 17th century standards.
Indeed.
By the way, I'm not being serious about the Kirk/Gaila thing. They're just showing Kirk in character. I'm just pointing out that, as the article has done, it's possible to find things to be offended about, no matter what your sensibilities are, in anything if you try hard enough.
I mean, let's see - there's McCoy too. Why does he have to run away to Starfleet just because he got divorced ? Should I assume that the adversarial, destructive, fault-based divorce system still exists in the 23rd Century ? That's another masculinist issue right there.
As for Kirk, actually, one thing I always say when people object to content in Star Trek is that you shouldn't judge the character's 23rd or 24th century behaviour by 21st century standards, just as we would not like someone judging our behaviour by 17th century standards.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
That's what happened in Just Visiting, funny movie btw.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
Yeah, I know it was tongue in cheek. That's why I initially responded with a joke. But I also figured it's never bad to throw some quasi-insightful thoughts out there. Who knows...maybe somebody on TrekBBS read it and felt a little less persecuted because a few shmucks on this thread understood what was going on. HIGHLY unlikely, but you never know.
Yeah, I know it was tongue in cheek. That's why I initially responded with a joke. But I also figured it's never bad to throw some quasi-insightful thoughts out there. Who knows...maybe somebody on TrekBBS read it and felt a little less persecuted because a few shmucks on this thread understood what was going on. HIGHLY unlikely, but you never know.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
Being cute and spunky helps.
Oh, sure! I've heard that one before!
Being cute and spunky helps.
Oh, sure! I've heard that one before!
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
In this specific case, a lot of people are forgetting Enterprise. Enterprise made it very clear that Orion females have the ability to make males of many species susceptible to suggestion, to the point where they will do whatever the females say. Male humans proved to be vulnerable to this. In fact, it is made clear that it is the male Orions who are the slaves. The whole idea that the females are slaves is a scam.
In the strictest sense, anyone who is unable to refuse to give their consent is a rape victim. If Gaila had used her natural ability as an Orion female, and Uhura had not walked in on them, Kirk would be such a victim.
In this specific case, a lot of people are forgetting Enterprise. Enterprise made it very clear that Orion females have the ability to make males of many species susceptible to suggestion, to the point where they will do whatever the females say. Male humans proved to be vulnerable to this. In fact, it is made clear that it is the male Orions who are the slaves. The whole idea that the females are slaves is a scam.
In the strictest sense, anyone who is unable to refuse to give their consent is a rape victim. If Gaila had used her natural ability as an Orion female, and Uhura had not walked in on them, Kirk would be such a victim.
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
Ah well I guess the board will attest I am scantilly clad all too often.
RAMA
Ah well I guess the board will attest I am scantilly clad all too often.
RAMA
Re: 'Sigh'...A feminist review of Star Trek XII
I'm going to make an argument here to see if I can rerail the thread.
Uhura initiating a relationship with Spock is just more evidence that she is a fully-formed, well-written female character who should actually appeal strongly to feminists, if they're actually thinking critically rather than reacting viscerally.
Let's examine:
1) She's competent in an intense academic field -- so competent that she was able to excel at Starfleet freakin' Academy, the magnet-school-to-end-all-magnet-schools for geniuses and prodigies. She will probably be a Big Name in the field if she hasn't already published a couple of bombshell papers.
1.5) Her knowledge and skill are one of the many cast contributions that saves the Enterprise. Oh, and it wasn't accidental like Sulu's parking brake error that led to the Enterprise arriving late to the fleet massacre party.
2) She's so confident in her own skin that she can strip down to her skivvies in front of a near-stranger without reacting any differently than she would have fully-clothed.
3) She ignores the extremely attractive protagonist and actively initiates a relationship with a non-human. Talk about boldly going! Most people have a hard time initiating relationships within their own species let alone going after an alien. Nevermind the fact that most humans probably consider Vulcans to be cold, aloof, and unapproachable to begin with.
Does this look like an anti-feminist, throwaway female character to you? Because she looks like a goddamn ROLE MODEL to me!
I'm going to make an argument here to see if I can rerail the thread.
Uhura initiating a relationship with Spock is just more evidence that she is a fully-formed, well-written female character who should actually appeal strongly to feminists, if they're actually thinking critically rather than reacting viscerally.
Let's examine:
1) She's competent in an intense academic field -- so competent that she was able to excel at Starfleet freakin' Academy, the magnet-school-to-end-all-magnet-schools for geniuses and prodigies. She will probably be a Big Name in the field if she hasn't already published a couple of bombshell papers.
1.5) Her knowledge and skill are one of the many cast contributions that saves the Enterprise. Oh, and it wasn't accidental like Sulu's parking brake error that led to the Enterprise arriving late to the fleet massacre party.
2) She's so confident in her own skin that she can strip down to her skivvies in front of a near-stranger without reacting any differently than she would have fully-clothed.
3) She ignores the extremely attractive protagonist and actively initiates a relationship with a non-human. Talk about boldly going! Most people have a hard time initiating relationships within their own species let alone going after an alien. Nevermind the fact that most humans probably consider Vulcans to be cold, aloof, and unapproachable to begin with.
Does this look like an anti-feminist, throwaway female character to you? Because she looks like a goddamn ROLE MODEL to me!
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