Tell me if I have this straight…

[T J]

Kirk is born in 2233 and lives his alternate life and joined Starfleet Academy in 2253. The same day he joins up McCoy joins up as well and they take off on the same recruit shuttle… Uhura is there also but is already in Starfleet Academy, perhaps the first or second year.

Flash forward 3 years to 2256. He is still a cadet in command training commanding the Kobayashi Maru test. Then the Vulcan attack happens and everyone comes together on the Enterprise. McCoy seems to automatically be a Lt. Commander… weird…

Then over the span of the next day or two we have our movie and at the end Kirk is given command of the Enterprise and given the rank of Captain… WTF!? Command school gives one the ability to skip ALL the ranks and get the flagship of the Federation?!?!?!

How the hell does this work?! It’s one of the parts that didn’t click for me. Did I get any of this wrong. It seems all waaaaaay too convenient .

Loved the movie, that part got me though…

 

[superdeluxe]

Yup you got it right. Starfleet academy does not match US military heirarchy.

 

[urbandk]

^^^What he said.

If an MD joins the military, he or she often starts at a higher rank than ensign.

Kirk's promotion is far fetched. You're right about that, but it's one of the liberties the movie takes with realism for the sake of having Kirk be captain of the E at the end of the film.

Chalk it up to his reward for saving the planet Earth.

 

[Qonos]

It's a Kirkian Reward like at the end of the Voyage home. When he's done a shit load of crimes and because he saved the federation he is demoted from Admiral to Captain and given command of the Federation's Flagship, Enterprise.

What, that's the precedent, if you hated that I can't help you.

 

[propita]

Well, they did lose 7 ships worth of personnel and cadets.

And Kirk proved himself under fire.

George Kirk was a captain for 12 minutes and saved 800 people. James Kirk was a captain for a few hours and saved the billions on Earth.

 

[TrekkieMonster]

Yeah, I must admit that I had major problems willing my disbelief into suspension for that.

Basically, Kirk went from Cadet on the verge of being kicked out of the Academy (or, at the very least, being on the receiving end of a severe finger-wagging) to being named Captain of the brand spanking new Federation Flagship in something like 72 hours (give our take.)

As I've said in other threads here, I'm most certainly not a basher. Just acknowledging one of my little problems with the story.

[raising ablative shielding]

Flame away.

 

[MostlyHarmless1]

Kirk is born in 2233 and lives his alternate life and joined Starfleet Academy in 2253. The same day he joins up McCoy joins up as well and they take off on the same recruit shuttle… Uhura is there also but is already in Starfleet Academy, perhaps the first or second year.

Flash forward 3 years to 2256. He is still a cadet in command training commanding the Kobayashi Maru test. Then the Vulcan attack happens and everyone comes together on the Enterprise. McCoy seems to automatically be a Lt. Commander… weird…

Then over the span of the next day or two we have our movie and at the end Kirk is given command of the Enterprise and given the rank of Captain… WTF!? Command school gives one the ability to skip ALL the ranks and get the flagship of the Federation?!?!?!

How the hell does this work?! It’s one of the parts that didn’t click for me. Did I get any of this wrong. It seems all waaaaaay too convenient .

Loved the movie, that part got me though…

I did find that really irritating, especially considering that not only was Kirk not a qualified officer he wasn't even supposed to be there in the first place.

And why the hell were they given the flagship? People seemed to be being promoted and demoted every second scene....
It doesn't say much for the equality of the 23rd Century that Uhura can be vastly more qualified and experienced tha her Captain, who just effectively stalked the ship itself until made its captain...

Agree, loved the film but this I couldn't swallow.
Looking forward to not having to think about it in the next one...

 

[Peter the Younger]

Yup you got it right. Starfleet academy does not match US military heirarchy.

what he said. In Starfleet, genius kids can enlist at 15 and graduate at 17. Cadets can keep field commisions earned during their "iternships." And brilliant graduates can get a command right out of the box.

I don't think it's a particularly wise policy, but that seems to be the case.

 

[IndyJones]

edit to add: Urbandk beat me to it.

McCoy seems to automatically be a Lt. Commander… weird…

This isn't so strange. I had classmates in Optometry School who joined the Navy. They finished school and entered the Navy as Lieutenants (without going to any boot camp or extended officer training).

McCoy had his medical degree and 3 years at the Academy coming out as a Lt. Commander. That's certainly not impossible from what we've seen before in Star Trek.

 

[Brent]

I think the teens of the future are smarter though, and more mature than today's society

 

[cultcross]

wow, mostlyharmless has a clone...

 

[The Wormhole]

It's a Kirkian Reward like at the end of the Voyage home. When he's done a shit load of crimes and because he saved the federation he is demoted from Admiral to Captain and given command of the Federation's Flagship, Enterprise.

What, that's the precedent, if you hated that I can't help you.

Situation doesn't compare. You have an Admiral who has most of this criminal charges dropped out of recognition for recently saving Earth. However, it is felt there should still be some form of punishment, so he is demoted, but is given command of Starfleet's flagship by the president of the Federation.

Now you have a cadet with a troubled background which is ignored after saving Earth and is instantly promoted seven ranks high and given command of Starfleet's flagship by the Academy ruling commitee. And this makes sense to you?

 

[T J]

God points, I don't expect Starfleet to be like the US military but if I were a ensign - commander I'd be pretty miffed. I bet lots of performance reviews tanked because they were like screw it, "I worked my ass off for 8 years and I'm only a Lt, screw you!"

Joking aside, I don't think anyone will ever beat the record or rising to Captain in two days!

 

[Skywalker]

I do think it wouldn't have been quite as "WTF?" if they'd flash-forwarded five years instead of three, and had Kirk as a young Lieutenant back at Starfleet Academy for Command College, and Sulu and Chekov could have been cadets then, but then they would have had a harder time explaining why Uhura and McCoy were still at the Academy after five years.

 

[Brent]

How old was Kirk when he took command in TOS compared to the new movie?

 

[TrekkieMonster]

wow, mostlyharmless has a clone...

I know; do you think he's acquainted with "the original"?

 

[Skywalker]

How old was Kirk when he took command in TOS compared to the new movie?

I think he was 31, but I don't know if that was ever officially stated on-screen.

 

[Chaos Descending]

edit to add: Urbandk beat me to it.

McCoy seems to automatically be a Lt. Commander… weird…

This isn't so strange. I had classmates in Optometry School who joined the Navy. They finished school and entered the Navy as Lieutenants (without going to any boot camp or extended officer training).

McCoy had his medical degree and 3 years at the Academy coming out as a Lt. Commander. That's certainly not impossible from what we've seen before in Star Trek.

As I pointed out to someone in another thread, my Chief Medical Officer on the USS Nimitz entered the Navy as a Captain after 25 years of civilian practice.

So McCoy being an LCDR right out of the box is not implausible in ANY context.

 

[cultcross]

edit to add: Urbandk beat me to it.

McCoy seems to automatically be a Lt. Commander… weird…

This isn't so strange. I had classmates in Optometry School who joined the Navy. They finished school and entered the Navy as Lieutenants (without going to any boot camp or extended officer training).

McCoy had his medical degree and 3 years at the Academy coming out as a Lt. Commander. That's certainly not impossible from what we've seen before in Star Trek.

As I pointed out to someone in another thread, my Chief Medical Officer on the USS Nimitz entered the Navy as a Captain after 25 years of civilian practice.

So McCoy being an LCDR right out of the box is not implausible in ANY context.

Particularly since his age and backstory implies he had been practising for some time before entering Starfleet.

 

[Ro Boat]

edit to add: Urbandk beat me to it.

McCoy seems to automatically be a Lt. Commander… weird…

This isn't so strange. I had classmates in Optometry School who joined the Navy. They finished school and entered the Navy as Lieutenants (without going to any boot camp or extended officer training).

McCoy had his medical degree and 3 years at the Academy coming out as a Lt. Commander. That's certainly not impossible from what we've seen before in Star Trek.

As I pointed out to someone in another thread, my Chief Medical Officer on the USS Nimitz entered the Navy as a Captain after 25 years of civilian practice.

So McCoy being an LCDR right out of the box is not implausible in ANY context.

Also, doctors in the Army tend to enter at Captain or O-3 which is the equivalent of a Navy Lt. For those with no military experience, think MASH.